This makes for some interesting reading.

I don't think the angelic view holds water. In Genesis where it mentions the sons of God creating children with the daughters of men, the angelic view would have non-sexual beings sireing children. Not possible.

In support of what your saying. Hears part of the spiritual view I take. The short version. I also don't believe it's about the sethites and the canites. I believe the 2 seeds are spiritual. One being of God and the other being of the deceiver.
In John 4:24 John says, ( God is a spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. )
Any one who trust and believes God is not decieved. This includes being obedient.
God puts what is right and what is wrong on peaples hearts. When they disobey, this is the taking of the fruit.
Now this is where the serpent was telling a partial truth. Now you have sinned, because you believed a lie.
That you can become as God. So who are you trusting now. The spirit of God or the spirit of deception?
(Two seeds.)

Matthew 25:41:

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
Revelation 12:9:

The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

In Job 1:6 we learn that Satan was in heaven with other angels.

One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them.

I don’t see how any of that contradicts anything in the angelic view PAskinner. I also don’t see how that shows that demons are the original fallen angels. I also don’t know where anyone gets that the angelic beings were not sexual. It just says they do not get married. If the Holy Spirit could create a child with Mary I’m not sure why the other spiritual beings couldn’t do it as well. Good conversations guys

Agree completely sportsman94.

If angels do not have the capability to have sex, then why did the people that lived in Sodom try to rape the two male angels in Lot's house?

Definition of sodomy: sod·​omy ˈsä-də-mē : the crime of oral or anal sexual contact or penetration between persons or of sexual intercourse between a person and an animal. especially : the crime of forcing another person to perform oral or anal sex. sodomize.

The courts call this "crimes against nature" the Bible calls this "sexual immorality and going after strange flesh"

In Job 1:6 we learn that Satan was in heaven with other angels.


Does Job 1:6 realy say they were in heaven? And Does it say angels?
Most literal translation say sons of God. Ben =Son Elohim =God.
After studying Job with the understanding that these sons of God that took council with God my actually literal be Jobs friends in the story.
Let me explain. Think of a fellowship, a group of friends.
Now these friends are God fearing, but one is wealthy obove the rest. I've seen in churches and in real life scenarios where men would be looked upon with jealousy, and of someone who had much welth, and faith.
And it leading to questioning weather they were truly faithful or weather there welth gave them a false sense of being faithful. These friends of Jobs seemed to know God. But when Job experienced tribulation they assumed that he had done something wrong. At the end of the book of Job. His friends were the ones who God said had sinned.
Kind of like they had taken counsel with a deceiver present. But thinking they were being godly men.
This same scenario could fit. The sons of God in Gen. 6:4 if they were faithful men who had taken un faithful women and raised men with a form of Godless that lived like men of the world. This would also fit the idea of rulers of the world being under this influence. Godly men that are decieved.
As Chancy said in and earlier response. Saying he believed these deceiver were the demons that influenced leaders.
There doesn't seem to be a big separation between the spiritual realm and the fleshly realm.

Chancey do you realy think these men would have ever accomplished having relations with those angels.
The angels had the power to strike the men blind. And the men of Sodom were obviously possessed.
The angels were doing what angels do. Delivering a message. Wich as always they delivered successfully.

To fit into the worldview that makes the most sense to me, it would/could have been them trying to recreate the nephilim of old. They likely didn’t know if they were good angels or bad. What I believe we know from reading scripture is that angelic spiritual beings had something about them that allowed people to know that they were different from other humans even though they had human form. Abraham was able to see them from a ways off and know who they were was just one example. So this wasn’t just some new guys walking into town that needed to be sodomized according to the men of the town. They wanted to do it for some reason that made sense to them. A transfer of power or creation of powerful being of some sort makes the most sense to me. Ultimately, if Lot knew these men to be strictly homosexuals, it seems weird that he would offer his daughters to them. It seems to me that the men were focused on something specific when trying to engage in relations with the angels and Lot was trying to distract them with something else he thought they would be tempted to take him up on

Good question. I honestly don't know, but I will say how I interpret Genesis 19 regarding your question.

For whatever reason that we don't know I think there was some kind of restrictions on the Angels power until Lot was safe. (19:22) The Angel tells Lot that He can't do anything until Lot is gone, not sure exactly what it means, but I take it literally.

After that God destroyed the entire city and all inhabitants and even the plants. Why would He destroy all living things, even plants again? The plants and critters had nothing to do with the sexual depravity of Sodom. This confirms the Angelic View to me. The fallen angels had corrupted all of the creation. The angels were not only manipulating the DNA of humans, but also animals, and plants.

I prefer the most logical and simple explanations when possible. All this just sounds like a lot of reading INTO scripture instead of simply accepting what it actually says.
Like this: seeing someone a long way off just means he's in an open area and can see a ways.

This is what the scripture actually says.......


"And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose."

The most logical explanation for me is to read it literally because that is exactly what it says.

Sportsman 94 have you read the story about the widow be in it Jesus says angels are neither male or female.

"Sons of God " can have several different meanings. Ultimately, it makes little difference. What we need to learn is the difference between God's voice and the voice of the evil one. That can be a life long process. And to understand that evil has no power over the redeemed, only the power we allow it.

Correct PAskinner. If the voice of the evil one contradicts the Gospel and teaching of Jesus Christ in any way, form, or fashion, then it is deception. Even if it is 98% True, and 2% false, then we are being deceived. Jesus Christ is my Rock; anything that contradicts His ministry is deception IMO.

Genesis 19:22 the angel could not let distruction come on Sodom till lot left. His mission was to clear out lot and those of his family that would follow. It would be like if you had a buck standing behind a tree and you couldn't do any thing until the buck stepped into the open. I don't believe he was saying he was powerless.

Skinner. Couldn't have said it better. His sheep shall know his voice.

So why didn't the Angel just nuke all the bad ones that were causing the problem and buy them some time?

The whole Chapter to me seems that they were all in a frenzy and stressed about the situation; even the Angels.

I’ve read them all and the only thing I recall Jesus saying about angels is they do not marry. Would be happy to reread and rethink my position if you can give me the verses

In fact, several instances of Old Testament angelic encounters describe them as men (see the story of Joshua coming into contact with the commander of the army of the Lord)

Good question, why didn't God just Nuke the Pharisees and those that put Jesus on the cross. He gave them another 37 odd years. The first time Mercy is ever mentioned in the bible is when the angel came to Lot.
Jesus said forgive them. For they know not what they do. So he gave them another 37 odd years to repent.
Lot was given a choice to leave. The Lord didn't need to go to Abraham before destroying Sadom. But he did to show Mercy.