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Re: Still believing in climate change? [Re: beaverpeeler] #8444389
Yesterday at 03:44 PM
Yesterday at 03:44 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
MN
W
walleye101 Offline
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walleye101  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2008
MN
Originally Posted by beaverpeeler
I should follow my own advice and just shut up because nothing I have to add here will be of any value to naysayers. But.......

We humans have been around for a couple hundred thousand years. There has been significant climate change during that time all by natural cycles that had nothing to do with us. Ice ages and warming ups have occurred. But the big population explosion for humans has really happened in only the last 10,000 years. Part of that has had to do with the "Goldilocks" climate we have been experiencing since the last ice age. This has allowed hunting and gathering to be mostly replaced with the much more productive plant and animal agriculture.

Then the industrial revolution came around we started using vast amounts of cheap energy to fuel it. Stored carbon that took millions of years to accumulate was suddenly being released into the atmosphere.

At some point science was able to figure out how to measure atmospheric CO2 and we discovered that it was increasing. We know from ice core samples that there is a correlation between high levels of atmospheric CO2 and warmer global periods. The greenhouse effect. Atmospheric CO2 acts like a blanket to trap heat. As oceans begin to heat up and polar ice melts weather patterns are disrupted and larger hurricanes fueled by warmer water are more common.

All this has been predicted by scientists long ago. But the speed of the warming has actually been grossly underestimated. Most of the models did not account for a thawing permafrost to give up vast amounts of methane which is even worse that CO2 in trapping heat.

Atmospheric CO2 levels are double what they were 400,000 years ago and increasing faster than what normal climate change is capable of with the exception of catastrophic events like volcano eruptions or large meteor strikes.

This is as close as you can get to proving that man's activities are causing this acceleration of global warming. Scientists will always phrase things as "may" or "might" because it is so complex nobody can say definitively exactly how all this comes together. But there is complete accord with scientists worldwide that this is happening and we are responsible for it. Except for a handful of "Youtube" scientists that seem to get funding from the energy sector who are always shouting hoax! I once upon a time looked at funding for some the more notorious contributors and found they we're all financially supported by the fossil fuels industry.

I keep getting asked for proof. If you really had an open mind you can find "proof" or as close to it as allowed in the realm of math and science by looking this stuff up. And if you think of the physics of it all it does make perfect sense. Walk into a greenhouse if you don't believe me.

OK I'll shut up.



Good rational post, beaverpeeler, and I am not asking for proof. In fact, let's just assume you are right on everything above.

If the industrial revolution and population explosion are the causes of climate change, then to fix it we would need to reverse both the industrial revolution and the population explosion. I don't see anyone stepping forward to voluntarily sacrifice their lives or their family to reduce CO2 levels. Neither do I see a significant majority of folks willing to go off grid and live in pre-industrial revolution conditions.

Perhaps a better way to look at this is from a cost/benefit perspective. The benefits of the industrial revolution are vast have been a tremendous improvement in everyone's way of life. The cost (if industrialization caused or contributed to this) may be living in the future on a somewhat warmer planet.

Perhaps a better approach than the futility of trying to reset things back to an earlier age, is to focus our efforts on trying to best adapt to the reality of what current weather conditions are. That would serve us well regardless if the warming pattern is caused by human activity or naturally ocurring.

Re: Still believing in climate change? [Re: Finster] #8444394
Yesterday at 03:53 PM
Yesterday at 03:53 PM
Joined: Feb 2021
WI
C
Cheever Online content
trapper
Cheever  Online Content
trapper
C

Joined: Feb 2021
WI
8 billion humans on the planet has got to have a big effect

Re: Still believing in climate change? [Re: Cheever] #8444416
Yesterday at 04:28 PM
Yesterday at 04:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
central Haudenosaunee, the De...
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white marlin Offline
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Joined: Jan 2007
central Haudenosaunee, the De...
Originally Posted by Cheever
8 billion humans on the planet has got to have a big effect


what's your remedy?

Re: Still believing in climate change? [Re: Finster] #8444421
Yesterday at 04:44 PM
Yesterday at 04:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Central Oregon
AntiGov Offline
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AntiGov  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2014
Central Oregon
Uv filters ......easy peasy .....during the industrial revolution we had a good balance ....no global warming.



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Re: Still believing in climate change? [Re: Finster] #8444423
Yesterday at 04:49 PM
Yesterday at 04:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Central Oregon
AntiGov Offline
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Joined: Jan 2014
Central Oregon


The Vink for chief moderator....night shift ...11pm- 5am best coast time zone.....Free Marty


Re: Still believing in climate change? [Re: Finster] #8444424
Yesterday at 04:50 PM
Yesterday at 04:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Central Oregon
AntiGov Offline
trapper
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Joined: Jan 2014
Central Oregon


The Vink for chief moderator....night shift ...11pm- 5am best coast time zone.....Free Marty


Re: Still believing in climate change? [Re: Finster] #8444434
Yesterday at 05:10 PM
Yesterday at 05:10 PM
Joined: Apr 2024
W Mich
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Leroy Bob Offline
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Leroy Bob  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2024
W Mich
I believe AntiGov about the Industrial Revolution because he witnessed it firsthand.

Re: Still believing in climate change? [Re: Finster] #8444439
Yesterday at 05:14 PM
Yesterday at 05:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Central Oregon
AntiGov Offline
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Joined: Jan 2014
Central Oregon
It's not hard to comprehend.....you guys are overthinking it .....


The Vink for chief moderator....night shift ...11pm- 5am best coast time zone.....Free Marty


Re: Still believing in climate change? [Re: Finster] #8444443
Yesterday at 05:19 PM
Yesterday at 05:19 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
eastern WV
R
Ridge Runner1960 Offline
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Joined: Dec 2008
eastern WV
I finished high school in the 70's, we were taught that any molten core planet will eventually overheat and go into whats called a supernova and explode, so who has been around long enough to determine that what we are witnessing is man made climate change and not the natural aging process of a molten core planet?

Re: Still believing in climate change? [Re: Finster] #8444446
Yesterday at 05:22 PM
Yesterday at 05:22 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper Offline
"Chippendale Trapper"
HobbieTrapper  Offline
"Chippendale Trapper"

Joined: Dec 2008
Eastern Shore of Maryland
I believe in climate change. I also believe we can’t do anything about it. The planet was designed to heal itself.


-Goofy
Re: Still believing in climate change? [Re: Finster] #8444452
Yesterday at 05:33 PM
Yesterday at 05:33 PM
Joined: Apr 2024
W Mich
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Leroy Bob Offline
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Joined: Apr 2024
W Mich
I’m not refuting anything. Waste of time to disagree with the mob. I just wanted to call AntiGov old….

Re: Still believing in climate change? [Re: beaverpeeler] #8444495
Yesterday at 07:32 PM
Yesterday at 07:32 PM
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NorthwesternYote Offline
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IL
Originally Posted by beaverpeeler
But there is complete accord with scientists worldwide that this is happening and we are responsible for it. Except for a handful of "Youtube" scientists that seem to get funding from the energy sector who are always shouting hoax! I once upon a time looked at funding for some the more notorious contributors and found they we're all financially supported by the fossil fuels industry.

Question for you, beaverpeeler:
You keep talking about financial support from the fossil fuel industry to fund scientists skeptical of climate change. So, do you think there is a financial incentive for climate scientists, always looking to fund their research, to sensationalize the effects of climate change?

Second question: If, as I believe, there are financial incentives at play on both sides, then isn't a healthy dose of skepticism healthy?

I'm open to the possibility of man-made climate change, but I don't believe the science is truly settled on how dire the situation is.

Re: Still believing in climate change? [Re: Finster] #8444544
Yesterday at 09:01 PM
Yesterday at 09:01 PM
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49th State
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Re: Still believing in climate change? [Re: Finster] #8444547
Yesterday at 09:03 PM
Yesterday at 09:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Central Oregon
AntiGov Offline
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Joined: Jan 2014
Central Oregon
They don't want to miss out on any funds grin


The Vink for chief moderator....night shift ...11pm- 5am best coast time zone.....Free Marty


Re: Still believing in climate change? [Re: Leroy Bob] #8444557
Yesterday at 09:21 PM
Yesterday at 09:21 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
williams,mn
trapper les Offline
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trapper les  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2011
williams,mn
Originally Posted by Leroy Bob
Heck of an argument. But why couldn’t humans impact it?

I don’t assume we do. Someone,not you,nor I,benefits from this narrative. The climate change agenda is a hoax, and it’s pushed by people that want to make money and force folks to switch gears and buy into green energy, sometimes by way of government mandates. I recognize the climate hoax as another wealth transfer scam. So…I don’t entertain ideas that the good people have to do the right thing and save the planet…. I see through that and suspect manipulation of the thoughts of the people for the gain of the globalists that are trying to control everyone.


"Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not."
Re: Still believing in climate change? [Re: Foxpaw] #8444559
Yesterday at 09:23 PM
Yesterday at 09:23 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
2A Sanctuaries-W. OK & N. NM
Blaine County Offline
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Joined: Mar 2010
2A Sanctuaries-W. OK & N. NM
Originally Posted by Foxpaw


What is the worst thing that man has ever done in your lifetime to destroy the earth. I'm thinking Chernobyl, but even that didn't cause a Silent Spring. I guess spitting on the side walk is no big deal, but just think if everybody did it, thus a new law is born, lol.


You should check out the Superfund site list. Plenty of examples of man destroying the earth right here in the USA.

Re: Still believing in climate change? [Re: trapper les] #8444564
Yesterday at 09:29 PM
Yesterday at 09:29 PM
Joined: Apr 2024
W Mich
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Leroy Bob Offline
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Joined: Apr 2024
W Mich
Originally Posted by trapper les
Originally Posted by Leroy Bob
Heck of an argument. But why couldn’t humans impact it?

I don’t assume we do. Someone,not you,nor I,benefits from this narrative. The climate change agenda is a hoax, and it’s pushed by people that want to make money and force folks to switch gears and buy into green energy, sometimes by way of government mandates. I recognize the climate hoax as another wealth transfer scam. So…I don’t entertain ideas that the good people have to do the right thing and save the planet…. I see through that and suspect manipulation of the thoughts of the people for the gain of the globalists that are trying to control everyone.


Let’s be clear - climate change is real. It’s indisputable and agreed upon by almost everyone on this thread. What’s being disputed is whether humans have influenced that change.

I have no doubts that politics have leveraged the situation for money and power. Certainly both sides, because that’s all those suckhole politicians are good for. It’s unfortunate but it’s reality.

I want to have a debate as to WHY humans couldn’t influence it. Human advancement has been exponential over the last 250 years. We alter the landscape everywhere we go, most often in a negative manner. Maybe it’s just a coincidence the world tends to be warming up, on average, in that timespan.

Re: Still believing in climate change? [Re: Finster] #8444570
Yesterday at 09:37 PM
Yesterday at 09:37 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
williams,mn
trapper les Offline
trapper
trapper les  Offline
trapper

Joined: Mar 2011
williams,mn
I agree with you Leroy that climate change is real…and I believe it is naturally occurring..it will happen whether we like it or not. There’s warm spells between ice ages…I’m not trying to fearmonger people to extract my dime….climate change is still weather.


"Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not."
Re: Still believing in climate change? [Re: Finster] #8444571
Yesterday at 09:41 PM
Yesterday at 09:41 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
williams,mn
trapper les Offline
trapper
trapper les  Offline
trapper

Joined: Mar 2011
williams,mn
We could talk about DARPA and weather control…on another thread


"Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not."
Re: Still believing in climate change? [Re: Finster] #8444572
Yesterday at 09:42 PM
Yesterday at 09:42 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
East of the Mason-Dixon Line
DelawareRob Offline
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Joined: Oct 2013
East of the Mason-Dixon Line
Climate and weather are two different things.

But yeah, it’s naturally occurring and the climate is changing.


Stop over cooking your meat! It isn’t gamey, it’s over cooked!

Gordon Ramsey, maybe…
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