No Profanity *** No Flaming *** No Advertising *** No Anti Trappers ***NO POLITICS
No Non-Target Catches *** No Links to Anti-trapping Sites *** No Avoiding Profanity Filter


Home~Trap Talk~ADC Forum~Trap Shed~Wilderness Trapping~International Trappers~Fur Handling

Auction Forum~Trapper Tips~Links~Gallery~Basic Sets~Convention Calendar~Chat~ Trap Collecting Forum ~ Live Chat

Trapper's Humor~Strictly Trapping~Fur Buyers Directory~Mugshots~Fur Sale Directory~Wildcrafting~The Pen and Quill

Trapper's Tales~Words From The Past~Legends~Archives~Kids Forum~Lure Formulators Forum~ Fermenter's Forum


~~~ Dobbins' Products Catalog ~~~


Minnesota Trapline Products
Please support our sponsor for the Trappers Talk Page - Minnesota Trapline Products


Print Thread
Hop To
Page 11 of 21 1 2 9 10 11 12 13 20 21
Re: Still believing in climate change? [Re: Finster] #8444276
07/28/25 11:58 AM
07/28/25 11:58 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Oregon
beaverpeeler Offline
trapper
beaverpeeler  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Oregon
I should follow my own advice and just shut up because nothing I have to add here will be of any value to naysayers. But.......

We humans have been around for a couple hundred thousand years. There has been significant climate change during that time all by natural cycles that had nothing to do with us. Ice ages and warming ups have occurred. But the big population explosion for humans has really happened in only the last 10,000 years. Part of that has had to do with the "Goldilocks" climate we have been experiencing since the last ice age. This has allowed hunting and gathering to be mostly replaced with the much more productive plant and animal agriculture.

Then the industrial revolution came around we started using vast amounts of cheap energy to fuel it. Stored carbon that took millions of years to accumulate was suddenly being released into the atmosphere.

At some point science was able to figure out how to measure atmospheric CO2 and we discovered that it was increasing. We know from ice core samples that there is a correlation between high levels of atmospheric CO2 and warmer global periods. The greenhouse effect. Atmospheric CO2 acts like a blanket to trap heat. As oceans begin to heat up and polar ice melts weather patterns are disrupted and larger hurricanes fueled by warmer water are more common.

All this has been predicted by scientists long ago. But the speed of the warming has actually been grossly underestimated. Most of the models did not account for a thawing permafrost to give up vast amounts of methane which is even worse that CO2 in trapping heat.

Atmospheric CO2 levels are double what they were 400,000 years ago and increasing faster than what normal climate change is capable of with the exception of catastrophic events like volcano eruptions or large meteor strikes.

This is as close as you can get to proving that man's activities are causing this acceleration of global warming. Scientists will always phrase things as "may" or "might" because it is so complex nobody can say definitively exactly how all this comes together. But there is complete accord with scientists worldwide that this is happening and we are responsible for it. Except for a handful of "Youtube" scientists that seem to get funding from the energy sector who are always shouting hoax! I once upon a time looked at funding for some the more notorious contributors and found they we're all financially supported by the fossil fuels industry.

I keep getting asked for proof. If you really had an open mind you can find "proof" or as close to it as allowed in the realm of math and science by looking this stuff up. And if you think of the physics of it all it does make perfect sense. Walk into a greenhouse if you don't believe me.

OK I'll shut up.


My fear of moving stairs is escalating!
Re: Still believing in climate change? [Re: Finster] #8444278
07/28/25 12:02 PM
07/28/25 12:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
central Haudenosaunee, the De...
W
white marlin Online content
trapper
white marlin  Online Content
trapper
W

Joined: Jan 2007
central Haudenosaunee, the De...
a correlation in time does not establish a scientific cause and effect relationship---Science 101

no matter how many times you say it does.

an example:

Suppose X is the daily temperature recorded, and Y is the number of visitors to a beach. Even though we observe that as temperature rises the number of visitors to the beach also increases (positive correlation), higher temperature do not directly cause more people to go to the beach: such a decision might be influenced by other factors like day of the week, whether it is holiday or not, whether special events are going on at that beach, and so on. Temperature may partly influence the decision to go to the beach, but it is not the direct cause. www.statology.org

Last edited by white marlin; 07/28/25 12:15 PM.
Re: Still believing in climate change? [Re: Finster] #8444280
07/28/25 12:03 PM
07/28/25 12:03 PM
Joined: Oct 2017
perry co.Pa
wetdog Offline
trapper
wetdog  Offline
trapper

Joined: Oct 2017
perry co.Pa
And those plants do exceptionally well in that environment
Isn't that a contradiction to your ideas

Re: Still believing in climate change? [Re: Finster] #8444281
07/28/25 12:04 PM
07/28/25 12:04 PM
Joined: Oct 2017
perry co.Pa
wetdog Offline
trapper
wetdog  Offline
trapper

Joined: Oct 2017
perry co.Pa
Keep posting BP
Maybe you'll change your mind in the end

Re: Still believing in climate change? [Re: wetdog] #8444322
07/28/25 01:33 PM
07/28/25 01:33 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Oregon
beaverpeeler Offline
trapper
beaverpeeler  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Oregon
Originally Posted by wetdog
And those plants do exceptionally well in that environment
Isn't that a contradiction to your ideas


Yep. Jungle plants. Why do you think the temperate zone is feeding the poor in tropical countries?


My fear of moving stairs is escalating!
Re: Still believing in climate change? [Re: beaverpeeler] #8444328
07/28/25 01:37 PM
07/28/25 01:37 PM
Joined: Oct 2017
perry co.Pa
wetdog Offline
trapper
wetdog  Offline
trapper

Joined: Oct 2017
perry co.Pa
Originally Posted by beaverpeeler
Originally Posted by wetdog
And those plants do exceptionally well in that environment
Isn't that a contradiction to your ideas


Yep. Jungle plants. Why do you think the temperate zone is feeding the poor in tropical countries?

Again you have it backwards
Just look up what's grown in tropical climates
They feed us

Re: Still believing in climate change? [Re: Finster] #8444378
07/28/25 03:25 PM
07/28/25 03:25 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Oregon
beaverpeeler Offline
trapper
beaverpeeler  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Oregon
Sorry Charley. I'm an Ag guy.... chocolate and bananas aren't feeding the worlds masses.


My fear of moving stairs is escalating!
Re: Still believing in climate change? [Re: beaverpeeler] #8444381
07/28/25 03:28 PM
07/28/25 03:28 PM
Joined: Oct 2017
perry co.Pa
wetdog Offline
trapper
wetdog  Offline
trapper

Joined: Oct 2017
perry co.Pa
Originally Posted by beaverpeeler
Sorry Charley. I'm an Ag guy.... chocolate and bananas aren't feeding the worlds masses.

You really think that's all that's grown in the tropical climate, your not much of an AG guy
And those countries stay poor because outside influence keeps them that way

Re: Still believing in climate change? [Re: beaverpeeler] #8444389
07/28/25 03:44 PM
07/28/25 03:44 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
MN
W
walleye101 Offline
trapper
walleye101  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: Dec 2008
MN
Originally Posted by beaverpeeler
I should follow my own advice and just shut up because nothing I have to add here will be of any value to naysayers. But.......

We humans have been around for a couple hundred thousand years. There has been significant climate change during that time all by natural cycles that had nothing to do with us. Ice ages and warming ups have occurred. But the big population explosion for humans has really happened in only the last 10,000 years. Part of that has had to do with the "Goldilocks" climate we have been experiencing since the last ice age. This has allowed hunting and gathering to be mostly replaced with the much more productive plant and animal agriculture.

Then the industrial revolution came around we started using vast amounts of cheap energy to fuel it. Stored carbon that took millions of years to accumulate was suddenly being released into the atmosphere.

At some point science was able to figure out how to measure atmospheric CO2 and we discovered that it was increasing. We know from ice core samples that there is a correlation between high levels of atmospheric CO2 and warmer global periods. The greenhouse effect. Atmospheric CO2 acts like a blanket to trap heat. As oceans begin to heat up and polar ice melts weather patterns are disrupted and larger hurricanes fueled by warmer water are more common.

All this has been predicted by scientists long ago. But the speed of the warming has actually been grossly underestimated. Most of the models did not account for a thawing permafrost to give up vast amounts of methane which is even worse that CO2 in trapping heat.

Atmospheric CO2 levels are double what they were 400,000 years ago and increasing faster than what normal climate change is capable of with the exception of catastrophic events like volcano eruptions or large meteor strikes.

This is as close as you can get to proving that man's activities are causing this acceleration of global warming. Scientists will always phrase things as "may" or "might" because it is so complex nobody can say definitively exactly how all this comes together. But there is complete accord with scientists worldwide that this is happening and we are responsible for it. Except for a handful of "Youtube" scientists that seem to get funding from the energy sector who are always shouting hoax! I once upon a time looked at funding for some the more notorious contributors and found they we're all financially supported by the fossil fuels industry.

I keep getting asked for proof. If you really had an open mind you can find "proof" or as close to it as allowed in the realm of math and science by looking this stuff up. And if you think of the physics of it all it does make perfect sense. Walk into a greenhouse if you don't believe me.

OK I'll shut up.



Good rational post, beaverpeeler, and I am not asking for proof. In fact, let's just assume you are right on everything above.

If the industrial revolution and population explosion are the causes of climate change, then to fix it we would need to reverse both the industrial revolution and the population explosion. I don't see anyone stepping forward to voluntarily sacrifice their lives or their family to reduce CO2 levels. Neither do I see a significant majority of folks willing to go off grid and live in pre-industrial revolution conditions.

Perhaps a better way to look at this is from a cost/benefit perspective. The benefits of the industrial revolution are vast have been a tremendous improvement in everyone's way of life. The cost (if industrialization caused or contributed to this) may be living in the future on a somewhat warmer planet.

Perhaps a better approach than the futility of trying to reset things back to an earlier age, is to focus our efforts on trying to best adapt to the reality of what current weather conditions are. That would serve us well regardless if the warming pattern is caused by human activity or naturally ocurring.

Re: Still believing in climate change? [Re: Finster] #8444394
07/28/25 03:53 PM
07/28/25 03:53 PM
Joined: Feb 2021
WI
C
Cheever Offline
trapper
Cheever  Offline
trapper
C

Joined: Feb 2021
WI
8 billion humans on the planet has got to have a big effect

Re: Still believing in climate change? [Re: Cheever] #8444416
07/28/25 04:28 PM
07/28/25 04:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
central Haudenosaunee, the De...
W
white marlin Online content
trapper
white marlin  Online Content
trapper
W

Joined: Jan 2007
central Haudenosaunee, the De...
Originally Posted by Cheever
8 billion humans on the planet has got to have a big effect


what's your remedy?

Re: Still believing in climate change? [Re: Finster] #8444421
07/28/25 04:44 PM
07/28/25 04:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Central Oregon
AntiGov Offline
trapper
AntiGov  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2014
Central Oregon
Uv filters ......easy peasy .....during the industrial revolution we had a good balance ....no global warming.



[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]


The Vink for chief moderator....night shift ...11pm- 5am best coast time zone.....Free Marty


Re: Still believing in climate change? [Re: Finster] #8444423
07/28/25 04:49 PM
07/28/25 04:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Central Oregon
AntiGov Offline
trapper
AntiGov  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2014
Central Oregon


The Vink for chief moderator....night shift ...11pm- 5am best coast time zone.....Free Marty


Re: Still believing in climate change? [Re: Finster] #8444424
07/28/25 04:50 PM
07/28/25 04:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Central Oregon
AntiGov Offline
trapper
AntiGov  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2014
Central Oregon


The Vink for chief moderator....night shift ...11pm- 5am best coast time zone.....Free Marty


Re: Still believing in climate change? [Re: Finster] #8444434
07/28/25 05:10 PM
07/28/25 05:10 PM
L
Leroy Bob
Unregistered
Leroy Bob
Unregistered
L


I believe AntiGov about the Industrial Revolution because he witnessed it firsthand.

Re: Still believing in climate change? [Re: Finster] #8444439
07/28/25 05:14 PM
07/28/25 05:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Central Oregon
AntiGov Offline
trapper
AntiGov  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2014
Central Oregon
It's not hard to comprehend.....you guys are overthinking it .....


The Vink for chief moderator....night shift ...11pm- 5am best coast time zone.....Free Marty


Re: Still believing in climate change? [Re: Finster] #8444443
07/28/25 05:19 PM
07/28/25 05:19 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
eastern WV
R
Ridge Runner1960 Offline
trapper
Ridge Runner1960  Offline
trapper
R

Joined: Dec 2008
eastern WV
I finished high school in the 70's, we were taught that any molten core planet will eventually overheat and go into whats called a supernova and explode, so who has been around long enough to determine that what we are witnessing is man made climate change and not the natural aging process of a molten core planet?

Re: Still believing in climate change? [Re: Finster] #8444446
07/28/25 05:22 PM
07/28/25 05:22 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper Online happy
"Chippendale Trapper"
HobbieTrapper  Online Happy
"Chippendale Trapper"

Joined: Dec 2008
Eastern Shore of Maryland
I believe in climate change. I also believe we can’t do anything about it. The planet was designed to heal itself.


-Goofy
Re: Still believing in climate change? [Re: Finster] #8444452
07/28/25 05:33 PM
07/28/25 05:33 PM
L
Leroy Bob
Unregistered
Leroy Bob
Unregistered
L


I’m not refuting anything. Waste of time to disagree with the mob. I just wanted to call AntiGov old….

Re: Still believing in climate change? [Re: beaverpeeler] #8444495
07/28/25 07:32 PM
07/28/25 07:32 PM
Joined: Jul 2024
IL
NorthwesternYote Offline
trapper
NorthwesternYote  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jul 2024
IL
Originally Posted by beaverpeeler
But there is complete accord with scientists worldwide that this is happening and we are responsible for it. Except for a handful of "Youtube" scientists that seem to get funding from the energy sector who are always shouting hoax! I once upon a time looked at funding for some the more notorious contributors and found they we're all financially supported by the fossil fuels industry.

Question for you, beaverpeeler:
You keep talking about financial support from the fossil fuel industry to fund scientists skeptical of climate change. So, do you think there is a financial incentive for climate scientists, always looking to fund their research, to sensationalize the effects of climate change?

Second question: If, as I believe, there are financial incentives at play on both sides, then isn't a healthy dose of skepticism healthy?

I'm open to the possibility of man-made climate change, but I don't believe the science is truly settled on how dire the situation is.

Page 11 of 21 1 2 9 10 11 12 13 20 21
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread