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Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: playin4funami] #844616 08/20/08 10:21 PM 08/20/08 10:21 PM
Joined: Dec 2006 Goldsboro, North Carolina Paul Dobbins "Trapperman custodian"
Paul Dobbins "Trapperman custodian" Joined: Dec 2006 Goldsboro, North Carolina	I don't think they adapt that quickly johnsd16. We had beavers intoduced to NC from different sources back in the 60's. Some originated in Wisconsin and some from Alabama. 40 years later, the Wisconsin descendants still have the very thick fur, and the Alabama beavers still have the very thin fur. So, if this carries over to other species, I don't think they'd adapt to the change quick enough to grow the denser fur to survive the extreme northern temps of winter. This is merely my theory based on my experience with beaver fur, so it may not be viable with other species. John 14:6 Jesus answered, �I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: playin4funami] #844617 08/20/08 10:21 PM 08/20/08 10:21 PM
Joined: Dec 2006 Kansas,32,6-1,220,B/B NS CharlesKS trapper
CharlesKS trapper Joined: Dec 2006 Kansas,32,6-1,220,B/B NS	no, he WONT have enough time, adaptation takes YEARS, if not EONS. The particular animal, is PRE-DESPOSED to grow a certain amount of fur. heres a thought- IF you took a snowshoe hare, and put it in florida, even in the first day of summer, he will STILL grow white hair and big feet, becasue his GENES, his DNA tells his body to do it, animlas DO NOT have chameloen type abilities. WHERES MARK JUNE WHEN YOU NEED HIM!

Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: CharlesKS] #844619 08/20/08 10:22 PM 08/20/08 10:22 PM
Joined: Dec 2006 Kansas,32,6-1,220,B/B NS CharlesKS trapper
CharlesKS trapper Joined: Dec 2006 Kansas,32,6-1,220,B/B NS	great exmple paul.

Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: johnsd16] #844622 08/20/08 10:25 PM 08/20/08 10:25 PM
Joined: Nov 2007 Rupert, Idaho Jack Kelley trapper
Jack Kelley trapper Joined: Nov 2007 Rupert, Idaho	...If you bring a southern wild animal to the north in the summer and put them in an outdoor pen will they die when winter comes? It's my opinion that that they won't necessarily die if they have the required calerie intake to maintain normal body heat. I know for sure that when the weather suddenly turns off cold, their appitite will increase. This is to boost the available energy for body heat and compensate for the lack of insulation. If there is a wind with the cold, their needed calorie intake will increase more if they don't have a place to get out of it. Thanks, Jack Kelley Rupert, Idaho 62 years old

Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: playin4funami] #844642 08/20/08 10:31 PM 08/20/08 10:31 PM
Joined: Dec 2006 ID-40 J johnsd16 trapper
johnsd16 trapper J Joined: Dec 2006 ID-40	Originally Posted By: playin4funami No he wouldn't die as he would have time to adjust as the photo-period shortened. Humans have a fairly short dna strand that constitues our genetic makeup,meaning that we use our brains to fiqure things out as they come along more often than the info is programmed into our genetic makeup. a animal lets say a yote has a pretty long recumbient dna strand meaning that more of its bodily and daily functions are controlled by its genetic makeup,meaning that it is born kmowing that a certain amount of light at a certain angle or degree to its location dictate how heavy and when a coyotes winter coat come in and its hide primes up. The yote knows nothing of this consiously, it's body just makes it happen. it is a gradual process that starts slow and ends after the winter eqiunox when daylight hours start to increase again, triggering the animals coat growing to stop. A yote from texas would be fine if it had time to adjust. You can also look at it as what make a tree turn colors and drop its leaves in the fall? they don't need a frost or anything they just know by the amount of light hitting them. WOW. I'm glad I didn't take the same genetics course you did. The size of the mamalian genomes are very similar. Humans for sure don't have a genome that is significantly different in size from a dog. In fact in my education the canine genome was used as an example for excessive disequilibrium, thus showing an ability to adapt, vary, and change that is not even approached by any other in the animal kingdom. But you have supplied an answer to my question, the coyote would not freeze to death. Interesting.

Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: Jack Kelley] #844645 08/20/08 10:32 PM 08/20/08 10:32 PM
Joined: Dec 2006 Magna, Utah G GritGuy trapper
GritGuy trapper G Joined: Dec 2006 Magna, Utah	Depends on the temp and habitat you give him, they adapt to conditions pretty readily. He may just sit and shiver all winter long if fed enough, however he will feel the temps being different, theres no doubt about that!! However if your going to just leave him out there in a pen and not feed him enough to cover his needs, yea he will probably die. Your trying to equate an evolutionary pattern to just weeks when this has taken centuries for them to adapt to. It's not rocket science LOL, we in the trapping hobby/fur/business all know about different animals having different pelts at different times of the year. Many animals due to thier latitude prime in different times during the year. This why one sees Bobcats and Badgers prime way late compared to canine here in the west, due to the way and wherefores of thier lives and habitats. Same for the rest of the animals in different parts of the country. Sorry if my opinions or replies offend you, they are not meant to !

Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: GritGuy] #844655 08/20/08 10:35 PM 08/20/08 10:35 PM
Joined: Dec 2006 Kansas,32,6-1,220,B/B NS CharlesKS trapper
CharlesKS trapper Joined: Dec 2006 Kansas,32,6-1,220,B/B NS	THE DEFENITVE answer to what triggers fur to prime is PHOTOPERIODISM. the reason why, and makes much sence, is the length of day from year to year is pretty consistant. HOWEVER, even if they relied on temperature, just a little, what happens when you get one of those unseasobly cool or warm spells in a season, then they would go shedding of growing un-needingly and would be all out of whack. the sun, my friends, is natures calander. Last edited by CharlesKS; 08/20/08 10:36 PM.

Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: CharlesKS] #844658 08/20/08 10:36 PM 08/20/08 10:36 PM
Joined: Dec 2006 ID-40 J johnsd16 trapper
johnsd16 trapper J Joined: Dec 2006 ID-40	Originally Posted By: CharlesKS no, he WONT have enough time, adaptation takes YEARS, if not EONS. I agree on the snowshoe issue. Right on. Based on your above quote, I see you have never read Darwin.

Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: johnsd16] #844662 08/20/08 10:38 PM 08/20/08 10:38 PM
Joined: Dec 2006 Kansas,32,6-1,220,B/B NS CharlesKS trapper
CharlesKS trapper Joined: Dec 2006 Kansas,32,6-1,220,B/B NS	PFFFFFT hlaf of darwins stuff is results of inbreeding. think about it, the galapagos islands? whole bunch of animals breeding thier litter mates, makes genetic mutants. i only buy in to A LITTLE of darwin.

Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: johnsd16] #844664 08/20/08 10:38 PM 08/20/08 10:38 PM
Joined: Dec 2006 Magna, Utah G GritGuy trapper
GritGuy trapper G Joined: Dec 2006 Magna, Utah	johnsd16, don't make this more painfull for you than it already has been LOL!! Sorry if my opinions or replies offend you, they are not meant to !

Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: CharlesKS] #844669 08/20/08 10:40 PM 08/20/08 10:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2006 Kansas,32,6-1,220,B/B NS CharlesKS trapper
CharlesKS trapper Joined: Dec 2006 Kansas,32,6-1,220,B/B NS	and that little bit is the theory of natural selection. not so much the theory of evolution, that wwe all come from one source, but lets not go there on this thread

Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: CharlesKS] #844671 08/20/08 10:41 PM 08/20/08 10:41 PM
N Nick C Unregistered
Nick C Unregistered N	PHOTOSYNTHESIS LMFAO

Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: GritGuy] #844707 08/20/08 10:51 PM 08/20/08 10:51 PM
Joined: Dec 2006 East-Central Wisconsin B bblwi trapper
bblwi trapper B Joined: Dec 2006 East-Central Wisconsin	The Texas Coyote coming to MN in July probably will not die simply because it will not be able to grow enough dense under fur to stay warm. Eating calories is another way to generate body heat and stave off cold also. If the animal makes the winter and mates be it male or female their offspring will be 50% from native stock and thus the low density fur, or thinner pelt will only be for that individual and for only as long as the individual lives. To me it is amazing that we look at such a major natural event from one aspect fur quality or density. There are huge north-south, East-West and high altitude and low altitude migrations of millions of animals annually that may have similar triggers. To think that only fur bearers are part of this phenomenon is not correct in my book. Don't see too many wood chucks, chipmucks, bears etc. with thermometers at the den entrances either. Bryce

Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: bblwi] #844719 08/20/08 10:57 PM 08/20/08 10:57 PM
Joined: Dec 2006 Magna, Utah G GritGuy trapper
GritGuy trapper G Joined: Dec 2006 Magna, Utah	Good point Bryce, one that many of us who spend a great amount of time in the outdoors have not let go unseen. A great part of any outdoor activity or actually any thing really is learning how to react or invite yourself into the realm of understanding it. Point being education about your interests will go miles towards increasing your harvest in at least this forums heart, Trapping Sorry if my opinions or replies offend you, they are not meant to !

Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: GritGuy] #844723 08/20/08 10:59 PM 08/20/08 10:59 PM
Joined: Dec 2006 ID-40 J johnsd16 trapper
johnsd16 trapper J Joined: Dec 2006 ID-40	Originally Posted By: GritGuy johnsd16, don't make this more painfull for you than it already has been LOL!! Luckily someone already put photosynthesis on this post, I still have some catching up to do. And thanks to Nick for continuing to point it out. I more people knew a lot about genetics, the comment on the size and functional differences between the canine and human genomes would actually be more laughable than ......photosynthesis.

Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: johnsd16] #844736 08/20/08 11:03 PM 08/20/08 11:03 PM
Joined: Dec 2006 Kansas,32,6-1,220,B/B NS CharlesKS trapper
CharlesKS trapper Joined: Dec 2006 Kansas,32,6-1,220,B/B NS	yes, the genomes are all very similiar, and this can be seen in embryonic development, however, when your talking about so many genomes, and the way all the T'C's and A's line up, just a LITTLE bit of varince makes all the difference.

Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: CharlesKS] #844745 08/20/08 11:07 PM 08/20/08 11:07 PM
Joined: Dec 2006 ID-40 J johnsd16 trapper
johnsd16 trapper J Joined: Dec 2006 ID-40	Charles, how could you forget about the coolest base, the G's.

Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: CharlesKS] #844750 08/20/08 11:08 PM 08/20/08 11:08 PM
Joined: Dec 2006 Magna, Utah G GritGuy trapper
GritGuy trapper G Joined: Dec 2006 Magna, Utah	Nick just likes to show off LOL he's Andy's shadow LOL. Really don't matter about the DNA level or how it's made up, your not dealing with Professors here. What does matter is that people understand when prime is taking place and not to take animals to soon for the lower dollar value. After all part of the harvest is to get the highest market value for your efforts! Sorry if my opinions or replies offend you, they are not meant to !

Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: GritGuy] #844764 08/20/08 11:13 PM 08/20/08 11:13 PM
Joined: Dec 2006 ID-40 J johnsd16 trapper
johnsd16 trapper J Joined: Dec 2006 ID-40	So, as trappers we should related to a date on the calendar and ignore the weather. Makes sense to me, I'll buy that photoperiod is the single largest determining factor year in and year out. In trapper jargon, is physical pelt damage (ie - rubbed, singed) considered coming down from prime, or can an animal still be prime but rubbed real bad? Or would that animal be considered past prime?

Re: What makes a fur turn prime.... [Re: GritGuy] #844785 08/20/08 11:25 PM 08/20/08 11:25 PM
Joined: Dec 2006 Corrales NM W Wackyquacker trapper
Wackyquacker trapper W Joined: Dec 2006 Corrales NM	Originally Posted By: GritGuy , your not dealing with Professors here. Speak for yourself Grit. Hard tellin not knowin

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