No Profanity *** No Flaming *** No Advertising *** No Anti Trappers ***NO POLITICS
No Non-Target Catches *** No Links to Anti-trapping Sites *** No Avoiding Profanity Filter


Home~Trap Talk~ADC Forum~Trap Shed~Wilderness Trapping~International Trappers~Fur Handling

Auction Forum~Trapper Tips~Links~Gallery~Basic Sets~Convention Calendar~Chat~ Trap Collecting Forum

Trapper's Humor~Strictly Trapping~Fur Buyers Directory~Mugshots~Fur Sale Directory~Wildcrafting~The Pen and Quill

Trapper's Tales~Words From The Past~Legends~Archives~Kids Forum~Lure Formulators Forum~ Fermenter's Forum


~~~ Dobbins' Products Catalog ~~~


Minnesota Trapline Products
Please support our sponsor for the Trappers Talk Page - Minnesota Trapline Products


Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Government Likes the Creedmoor ~new Contract #8472712
09/19/25 06:34 PM
09/19/25 06:34 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Minnesota
330-Trapper Offline OP

trapper
330-Trapper  Offline OP

trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Minnesota
There’s a common misconception that military special operators get to use whatever equipment they want to get the job done. While Tier One units, such as DEVGRU (Naval Special Warfare Development Group, also known as SEAL Team Six) and Delta Force (1st Special Forces Operational Detachment – Delta), enjoy considerable latitude with their acquisitions under Special Operations Command, “regular” SEALs and Green Berets are more limited. Army Special Forces had to pull a sneaky to get Glock 19 pistols, and even then, there weren’t enough to go around.

On August 22, 2025, the Pentagon announced that a $92 million USSOCOM contract had been awarded to Lewis Machine & Tools Defense for “medium range gas gun-assault kits.” The 10-year contract also includes spare parts and accessories, new equipment training, and engineering change proposals.

special operations command rifle
Geissele’s Upper Receiver Group — Improved drops onto an M4A1 lower receiver (U.S. Army)
The rifle itself is where things get interesting. SOCOM already has medium-range 5.56mm rifles, like the Army Special Operations Command’s M4A1 with the Geissele URG-I and the Heckler & Koch HK416. This new assault rifle is different in that it’s chambered for the larger and more powerful 6.5 Creedmoor. Similar to 7.62x51mm NATO in its terminal effectiveness, 6.5 CM is a full-size rifle cartridge that offers better long-range performance with its flatter trajectory and improved resistance to wind drift.

Advertisement

SOCOM already fields the 6.5 CM in its Mid-Range Gas Gun—Sniper (MRGG-S) rifle. In 2023, Geissele beat LMT and won a $29 million contract for the precision rifle with a 20-inch barrel. Two years later, LMT has taken its revenge.

The announcement of the MRGG-A contract follows the announcement of a 6.5 CM ammo contract awarded to Black Hills Ammunition for up to $40 million. Black Hills is renowned for its precision ammunition, including the 5.56mm MK262, which is extensively used by special operations forces for its precision and lethality.

special operations command rifle
LMT’s submissions for the sniper and assaulter variants of the MRGG. (LMT)
The SOCOM contract follows notable international contracts won by LMT in Switzerland and Estonia. Although the Swiss Armed Forces generally field domestically-produced rifles, LMT was awarded a contract to supply them with a 5.56mm rifle. Based on LMT’s MARS-L rifle, the new weapon will be designated the Sturmgewehr 25 (Stgw 25) in Swiss service. In their press release announcing the contract, LMT noted that they will also supply rifles in other calibers to the Swiss Armed Forces.

The Estonian contract is notable not only for the Baltic nation’s defense modernization efforts following the Russian invasion of Ukraine, but also for its issues. In December 2018, LMT announced its contract to supply the Estonian Defence Forces with 14.3-inch 5.56mm rifles, 12-inch 5.56mm rifles, 16-inch 7.62mm rifles, and 40mm grenade launchers. LMT announced that deliveries to Estonia began in 2021.

The rifle itself is where things get interesting. SOCOM already has medium-range 5.56mm rifles, like the Army Special Operations Command’s M4A1 with the Geissele URG-I and the Heckler & Koch HK416. This new assault rifle is different in that it’s chambered for the larger and more powerful 6.5 Creedmoor. Similar to 7.62x51mm NATO in its terminal effectiveness, 6.5 CM is a full-size rifle cartridge that offers better long-range performance with its flatter trajectory and improved resistance to wind drift
SOCOM already fields the 6.5 CM in its Mid-Range Gas Gun—Sniper (MRGG-S) rifle. In 2023, Geissele beat LMT and won a $29 million contract for the precision rifle with a 20-inch barrel. Two years later, LMT has taken its revenge.

The announcement of the MRGG-A contract follows the announcement of a 6.5 CM ammo contract awarded to Black Hills Ammunition for up to $40 million. Black Hills is renowned for its precision ammunition, including the 5.56mm MK262, which is extensively used by special operations forces for its precision and lethality.


NRA and NTA Life Member
www.BackroadsRevised@etsy.com




Re: Government Likes the Creedmoor ~new Contract [Re: 330-Trapper] #8472713
09/19/25 06:37 PM
09/19/25 06:37 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Minnesota
330-Trapper Offline OP

trapper
330-Trapper  Offline OP

trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Minnesota
[Linked Image]


NRA and NTA Life Member
www.BackroadsRevised@etsy.com




Re: Government Likes the Creedmoor ~new Contract [Re: 330-Trapper] #8472714
09/19/25 06:37 PM
09/19/25 06:37 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Minnesota
330-Trapper Offline OP

trapper
330-Trapper  Offline OP

trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Minnesota
Ive never owned one
Just reporting


NRA and NTA Life Member
www.BackroadsRevised@etsy.com




Re: Government Likes the Creedmoor ~new Contract [Re: 330-Trapper] #8472729
09/19/25 06:58 PM
09/19/25 06:58 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
OK
Aaron Proffitt Online happy
trapper
Aaron Proffitt  Online Happy
trapper

Joined: Oct 2007
OK
That's pretty cool !


Honor a Soldier. Be the kind of American worth fighting for.
Re: Government Likes the Creedmoor ~new Contract [Re: 330-Trapper] #8472757
09/19/25 08:04 PM
09/19/25 08:04 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Mo.
1
1cav Offline
trapper
1cav  Offline
trapper
1

Joined: Oct 2007
Mo.
Own Wilson Combat Ranger Tactical 6.5 CM, loaded several rounds, to get the accuracy, I like. Shot 2 different bullets, 143 gr Hornady ELDx, 120 gr Sierra HP. Good shooter especially past 500/700 yds.

Re: Government Likes the Creedmoor ~new Contract [Re: 330-Trapper] #8473159
09/20/25 06:25 PM
09/20/25 06:25 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Pa
W
Wright Brothers Offline
trapper
Wright Brothers  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: Dec 2006
Pa
Uncle had one that was a smoker.
Different cartridge name though.
And that is now stuck in my brain cell.
6.5x?? or 264 xx or ?
There is a lesson in marketing here.





Re: Government Likes the Creedmoor ~new Contract [Re: 330-Trapper] #8473160
09/20/25 06:35 PM
09/20/25 06:35 PM
Joined: May 2013
Holmes Co. Ohio
K
Killbuck Offline
trapper
Killbuck  Offline
trapper
K

Joined: May 2013
Holmes Co. Ohio
Give a new soldier a Garand and they would drop it and run.

Re: Government Likes the Creedmoor ~new Contract [Re: 330-Trapper] #8473196
09/20/25 08:37 PM
09/20/25 08:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2024
Ga
P
Pipeliner90 Offline
trapper
Pipeliner90  Offline
trapper
P

Joined: Jan 2024
Ga
Ill stick with my ol 25-06. Flatter shooting.

Re: Government Likes the Creedmoor ~new Contract [Re: Wright Brothers] #8473202
09/20/25 08:43 PM
09/20/25 08:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
49th State
M
mad_mike Offline
trapper
mad_mike  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Jan 2008
49th State
Originally Posted by Wright Brothers
Uncle had one that was a smoker.
Different cartridge name though.
And that is now stuck in my brain cell.
6.5x?? or 264 xx or ?
There is a lesson in marketing here.



264 Winchester Magnum perhaps. It is a smoking flat shooter.

Re: Government Likes the Creedmoor ~new Contract [Re: 330-Trapper] #8473216
09/20/25 08:59 PM
09/20/25 08:59 PM
Joined: Mar 2018
Missouri
H
HayDay Offline
trapper
HayDay  Offline
trapper
H

Joined: Mar 2018
Missouri
News like this makes me go....hmmmmm. To me this smacks of somebody paid somebody to go to the head of the line in order to sell them something proprietary. 5.56 Nato and 7.62 Nato means ammo for those can be found world wide. Not so with a 6.5 CM. The worst part to me is the 6.5 CM is not even the best of the 6.5 newbies. To me it takes a back seat to 6.5 PRC.

To me the same thing happened with Sig and replacement of the Beretta.

And where does this leave the 300 AAC Blackout?


Easy to vote your way into socialism, but impossible to vote your way out of it.
Re: Government Likes the Creedmoor ~new Contract [Re: HayDay] #8473226
09/20/25 09:10 PM
09/20/25 09:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
49th State
M
mad_mike Offline
trapper
mad_mike  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Jan 2008
49th State
Originally Posted by HayDay
And where does this leave the 300 AAC Blackout?


Are you talking supers or subs. The subs are only reasonable under 300 yards and supers maybe just past 500. I would say the 300 is best kept working in close. The 6.5 Creed can stretch quite a bit more.

Re: Government Likes the Creedmoor ~new Contract [Re: 330-Trapper] #8473238
09/20/25 09:39 PM
09/20/25 09:39 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
WI
B
BvrRetriever Offline
trapper
BvrRetriever  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Feb 2008
WI
I think it’s all about what you train with

Re: Government Likes the Creedmoor ~new Contract [Re: 330-Trapper] #8473337
09/21/25 06:52 AM
09/21/25 06:52 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
williamsburg ks
what happened to the 277 round that had two different kinds of metal in the case? that can withstand 80,000 psi? 6.5 is just another flash in the pan that gun manufacturers spent too much money on. its no longer popular. gun companies are scrambling to find ways to advertise and increase sales.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Government Likes the Creedmoor ~new Contract [Re: HayDay] #8473356
09/21/25 07:50 AM
09/21/25 07:50 AM
Joined: Dec 2012
Northern WI
L
Line Jumper Offline
trapper
Line Jumper  Offline
trapper
L

Joined: Dec 2012
Northern WI
Originally Posted by HayDay
News like this makes me go....hmmmmm. To me this smacks of somebody paid somebody to go to the head of the line in order to sell them something proprietary. 5.56 Nato and 7.62 Nato means ammo for those can be found world wide. Not so with a 6.5 CM. The worst part to me is the 6.5 CM is not even the best of the 6.5 newbies. To me it takes a back seat to 6.5 PRC.

To me the same thing happened with Sig and replacement of the Beretta.

And where does this leave the 300 AAC Blackout?


Exactly, the same gun in 7.62 would have saved a ton of money and did the same thing.

Re: Government Likes the Creedmoor ~new Contract [Re: Line Jumper] #8473401
09/21/25 09:19 AM
09/21/25 09:19 AM
Joined: Mar 2018
Missouri
H
HayDay Offline
trapper
HayDay  Offline
trapper
H

Joined: Mar 2018
Missouri
7.62 WOULD have saved money, did same thing or better, and actually be available when needed. There was a reason it was standardized.

CM's claim to fame built on punching holes in paper. Soldiers need to punch holes in the enemy and put them down. At distances where CM gets an accuracy advantage, bullets run out of gas and might just bounce off. At long distance, snipers and hunters alike go bigger than 7.62, not smaller. Like 300 Win mag's, 50 caliber Barrett's and such.

So whole thing smacks of tainted procurement, somebody selling something to make seller money vs. for military to actually use on battlefield.


Easy to vote your way into socialism, but impossible to vote your way out of it.
Re: Government Likes the Creedmoor ~new Contract [Re: HayDay] #8473458
09/21/25 11:23 AM
09/21/25 11:23 AM
Joined: Feb 2020
Indiana
P
Providence Farm Online content
trapper
Providence Farm  Online Content
trapper
P

Joined: Feb 2020
Indiana
Originally Posted by HayDay
7.62 WOULD have saved money, did same thing or better, and actually be available when needed. There was a reason it was standardized.

CM's claim to fame built on punching holes in paper. Soldiers need to punch holes in the enemy and put them down. At distances where CM gets an accuracy advantage, bullets run out of gas and might just bounce off. At long distance, snipers and hunters alike go bigger than 7.62, not smaller. Like 300 Win mag's, 50 caliber Barrett's and such.

So whole thing smacks of tainted procurement, somebody selling something to make seller money vs. for military to actually use on battlefield.




Its still beter than both 5.56 and 308 im my opinion. But I prefer smaller bullets in that 308 case. less recoil more speed and for me better results. enough that I no longer own a 308 or have one in the house but 243, 260 and 7mm-08 are in the rack. Absolutely love that 7mm-08 and 260. But think I like the 7mm08 a touch better.

Logistics adding another additional cal does not seem smart. Any platform that will take 6.5 cm will also fit a 308. But again a little more recoil , more drop and drift, But less energy on target and more complicated adding and getting ammo unless moving everyone to it.

Maybe its to get live action performance results in combat?

Re: Government Likes the Creedmoor ~new Contract [Re: danny clifton] #8473461
09/21/25 11:28 AM
09/21/25 11:28 AM
Joined: Feb 2020
Indiana
P
Providence Farm Online content
trapper
Providence Farm  Online Content
trapper
P

Joined: Feb 2020
Indiana
Originally Posted by danny clifton
what happened to the 277 round that had two different kinds of metal in the case? that can withstand 80,000 psi? 6.5 is just another flash in the pan that gun manufacturers spent too much money on. its no longer popular. gun companies are scrambling to find ways to advertise and increase sales.


I read there were some issues with cases comming apart and excessive wear creating issues But sources are not official. Who would have thought that could happen. Yet I have not seen anything about changing corse.

Apparently its a complete system with advanced optic that gives correct dope and shooting solutions. That could have been made for old or any other new platform.

Re: Government Likes the Creedmoor ~new Contract [Re: 330-Trapper] #8473472
09/21/25 11:47 AM
09/21/25 11:47 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
South shore L.I.
G
gcs Offline
trapper
gcs  Offline
trapper
G

Joined: Dec 2006
South shore L.I.
Pretty sure a 6.5 isn't going to "bounce off", lol, but there's been a bunch of these different rounds tried by the military, or pushed towards them....

If they wanted to go smaller than the 7.62, then why not the 243 or 260?.. same parent case, should be able to switch out barrels for cheap, easier to shoot, better ballistics and a more lethal round.... why re-invent the wheel constantly?
and the 5.56 isn't going anywhere, it's a NATO cartridge and theres millions of rounds out there, the "improved" rifles and rounds need only go to spec ops, SEALS etc....

Re: Government Likes the Creedmoor ~new Contract [Re: 330-Trapper] #8473480
09/21/25 12:08 PM
09/21/25 12:08 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Amite county Mississippi
Wolfdog91 Online sleepy
trapper
Wolfdog91  Online Sleepy
trapper

Joined: Jul 2013
Amite county Mississippi
Still don't understand why they dont just make a standardized upper for current stuff and go with that.. seriously could have a armor conex with uppers in whatever.
"O you guys are going on a patrol in this area where shots will be longer ?" Hand out the longer uppers in whatever swap mags and ammo done .

but let's be honest a lot of this is people getting kick backs and just trying to spend that sweet sweet defense budget


YouTube expert
"The bird of Hermes is my name , eating my wings to keep me tame"
Re: Government Likes the Creedmoor ~new Contract [Re: gcs] #8473482
09/21/25 12:11 PM
09/21/25 12:11 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Amite county Mississippi
Wolfdog91 Online sleepy
trapper
Wolfdog91  Online Sleepy
trapper

Joined: Jul 2013
Amite county Mississippi
Originally Posted by gcs
Pretty sure a 6.5 isn't going to "bounce off", lol, but there's been a bunch of these different rounds tried by the military, or pushed towards them....

If they wanted to go smaller than the 7.62, then why not the 243 or 260?.. same parent case, should be able to switch out barrels for cheap, easier to shoot, better ballistics and a more lethal round.... why re-invent the wheel constantly?
and the 5.56 isn't going anywhere, it's a NATO cartridge and theres millions of rounds out there, the "improved" rifles and rounds need only go to spec ops, SEALS etc....


Let's be honest.... The creed is hear to stay , is about as popular in as the .308 , you can find about as much if not more I've seen ammo for it right next to the .308. it's not some miracle round...but it works ..I mean it just plain works .
And if you wanna do trh whole argument about ,its the same as the .260 or the sweede....well in that case if it's the same it's just as good and it's easier to find and get so crazy


YouTube expert
"The bird of Hermes is my name , eating my wings to keep me tame"
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread