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Re: Ukraine 180 [Re: NorthwesternYote] #8479009
19 hours ago
19 hours ago
Joined: Feb 2007
Washington State
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humptulips Offline
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Originally Posted by NorthwesternYote
Originally Posted by Manfred
My proposal would be to cede this part to Russia to end the war and offer the population on both sides a resettlement and property exchange program so that everyone can settle on the side under whose rule they wish to live in the future.

Doesn't that essentially give Putin everything that he's demanding?

You can either accede to his demands or prolong the war and in the end, he gets them anyway. Months ago, Trump told Zelenski he had no cards. He still holds the same hand.

Re: Ukraine 180 [Re: Blaine County] #8479012
19 hours ago
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Manfred,
One of the demands was the denazification of Western Ukraine. Do you think that is possible?

Re: Ukraine 180 [Re: humptulips] #8479036
17 hours ago
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Originally Posted by humptulips
You can either accede to his demands or prolong the war and in the end, he gets them anyway. Months ago, Trump told Zelenski he had no cards. He still holds the same hand.

How long did the American Revolutionary War last?

Re: Ukraine 180 [Re: humptulips] #8479039
16 hours ago
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Manfred Offline
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Originally Posted by humptulips
Manfred,
One of the demands was the denazification of Western Ukraine. Do you think that is possible?


I don't think so. The anti-Russian faction in the West will continue to support the nationalist forces in Ukraine financially and with propaganda, as before, in order to use Ukraine as a pawn against Russia.
To prevent this, Russia would have to conquer all of Ukraine. But the Russian government doesn't want that, because the population in western Ukraine, especially the Galicians, would be a permanently divisive force in the Russian Federation.
If the war continues with Western support, I can imagine a scenario in which Russia will conquer everything east of the Dnieper River, possibly also west of the Dnieper the formerly Russian oblasts of Odessa, Mykolaiv, and the western part of Kherson, to form a land bridge to Transnistria (the "Russian" part of Moldova) and secure the Black Sea, perhaps even the Kyiv Oblast, because of its historical importance to Russia. But I can't imagine the rest of western Ukraine under Russian rule.

Last edited by Manfred; 16 hours ago.
Re: Ukraine 180 [Re: Manfred] #8479040
16 hours ago
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Originally Posted by NorthwesternYote

How long did the American Revolutionary War last?


Compared to the Ukrainian War, the American Revolutionary War was more of a series of smaller skirmishes.

Last edited by Manfred; 16 hours ago.
Re: Ukraine 180 [Re: Manfred] #8479041
16 hours ago
16 hours ago
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Originally Posted by Manfred
Compared to the Ukrainian War, the American Revolutionary War was more of a series of smaller skirmishes.

Not per capita.

If the people of Ukraine still have the resolve to fight for their sovereignty, it's not our place to tell them to stop.

I would counter your proposed "peace deal" with this:

If Russia keeps all the land that you propose, then Ukraine gets to join NATO to guarantee their future sovereignty, since Russia can't be trusted to recognize their boundaries otherwise. That would be quite a poison pill for Putin and check future aggression.

Or else Ukraine does not join NATO, and Crimea is internationally recognized as a Russian possession (since it was already de facto under Russian control before the 2022 invasion), but all the rest of the disputed land must be returned to Ukraine.

Re: Ukraine 180 [Re: NorthwesternYote] #8479056
14 hours ago
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Originally Posted by NorthwesternYote

If the people of Ukraine still have the resolve to fight for their sovereignty, it's not our place to tell them to stop.



You seem to have misunderstood something. It's the ethnic Russians in eastern and southern Ukraine who are fighting for their independence, supported by Russia.
The western Ukrainians have been fighting since 2014 to suppress or expel these ethnic Russians.



Last edited by Manfred; 14 hours ago.
Re: Ukraine 180 [Re: Blaine County] #8479068
13 hours ago
13 hours ago
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williamsburg ks
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danny clifton Offline
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I have never been there. I won't pretend to understand their politics.

Trump is saying that NATO allies are now paying their agreed upon percentage of their GDP. Finally. That is the money being used to buy U.S. weapons. Those countries are much closer to the conflict. None have been attacked so we are under no obligation to send our young men. If European tax dollars are being spent I say its their money. My tax dollars being spent on that morass of corruption fills me with anger.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Ukraine 180 [Re: NorthwesternYote] #8479148
9 hours ago
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Originally Posted by NorthwesternYote
Originally Posted by Manfred
Compared to the Ukrainian War, the American Revolutionary War was more of a series of smaller skirmishes.

That would be quite a poison pill for Putin and check future aggression.

But what assuraces does Russia have that would check future aggression from the west? That is a legitamte concern with historical precedent.


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Re: Ukraine 180 [Re: Blaine County] #8479155
9 hours ago
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Kansas
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I said it the day it started. Ukraine was going to loose. I still believe that. A generation of young men are gone and nothing has changed. Absolutely terrible


Everything the left touches it destroys
Re: Ukraine 180 [Re: Pawnee] #8479202
8 hours ago
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Originally Posted by Pawnee
A generation of young men are gone


For forced mobilization (which now is almost all of their mobilization) they have a minimum age of 25.
They are doing something I have never seen before in a war: They are sparing their young men and mobilizing their older men, ages 25 to 60.
A few weeks ago, they even issued a decree allowing men up to the age of 22 to leave the country. Exit queues immediately formed at the borders. Within a few days, tens of thousands of young men are said to have left the country to avoid a possible lowering of the compulsory recruitment age.

Russia, on the other hand, uses exclusively volunteer professional soldiers for this war.
Conscripts are only deployed within Russia itself. (They even convicted generals who, contrary to orders, took conscripts to Ukraine in 2022.)
And the professional soldiers are very well paid, like mercenaries, including high compensation for serious injury or death.

Re: Ukraine 180 [Re: waggler] #8479230
5 hours ago
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Originally Posted by waggler
But what assuraces does Russia have that would check future aggression from the west? That is a legitamte concern with historical precedent.

Russia are the invaders in this conflict. They are the aggressors. They may have had valid concerns about Ukraine desiring to align with the West and join NATO, but by invading, they've demonstrated why Ukraine would be right to pursue this.

Re: Ukraine 180 [Re: Blaine County] #8479359
54 seconds ago
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rex123 Online content
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who talked Ukraine into giving up their nukes?

Last edited by rex123; 15 seconds ago.
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