Re: What makes a fur turn prime....
[Re: johnsd16]
#851620
08/25/08 09:08 PM
08/25/08 09:08 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,168 McGrath, AK
white17
"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
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"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,168
McGrath, AK
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Your just having a hard time with this ain't ya John, LOL
No temperature does have nothing to do with a pelts priming up! I'm not the one having a hard time with it. White17 is saying it POSSIBLY does, but either he won't outright say it or doesn't realize he's saying it. You apparently misunderstand . I am saying temperature has nothing to do with it.
Mean As Nails
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Re: What makes a fur turn prime....
[Re: white17]
#851660
08/25/08 09:24 PM
08/25/08 09:24 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,192 ID-40
johnsd16
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,192
ID-40
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Your just having a hard time with this ain't ya John, LOL
No temperature does have nothing to do with a pelts priming up! I'm not the one having a hard time with it. White17 is saying it POSSIBLY does, but either he won't outright say it or doesn't realize he's saying it. You apparently misunderstand . I am saying temperature has nothing to do with it. Whoa, whoa, whoa, reeeeeeeeeeeewind. You said WIND "POSSIBLY" has something to do with it, but absolutely NOT temperature! Now that is tooooooooo funny.
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Re: What makes a fur turn prime....
[Re: don Wolf]
#852018
08/26/08 12:45 AM
08/26/08 12:45 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 143 Corrales NM
Wackyquacker
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 143
Corrales NM
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The theory of light (actually dark) induced hair growth has been presented from about every angle possible and in physiological if not molecular detail and at dang near every reading grade level, i.e. vocabulary; yet you want it to be something else. How about YOU present a mechanism for altitude or temperature based induction. Something like maybe; at high altitude the pigment facillitated transduction of electromagnetic energy to chemical bond energy is slowed do to the gradual decrease / increase of gravitational pull from the moon that must occur as we approach the equinox. This reduction in rate of bond formation stimulates the release of FSH (follicle stimulating hormone)from the pituitary gland which causes fur to prime.
Last edited by Wackyquacker; 08/26/08 12:47 AM.
Hard tellin not knowin
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Re: What makes a fur turn prime....
[Re: Wackyquacker]
#852140
08/26/08 06:34 AM
08/26/08 06:34 AM
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Joe B
Unregistered
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Joe B
Unregistered
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If that old coon were blind in both eyes he would stay prime all year round! LOL LOL
... and a blind dog never sheds his winter coat!!!
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Re: What makes a fur turn prime....
[Re: Wackyquacker]
#852278
08/26/08 09:19 AM
08/26/08 09:19 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,192 ID-40
johnsd16
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,192
ID-40
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This reduction in rate of bond formation stimulates the release of FSH (follicle stimulating hormone)from the pituitary gland which causes fur to prime.
Oh my gosh, now you guys have really lost me. NOW the coon is going to ovulate. Whoa, I really don't get it now. Now you're telling me that the fur priming coincides with the coon breeding cycle.
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Re: What makes a fur turn prime....
[Re: white17]
#852303
08/26/08 09:42 AM
08/26/08 09:42 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,255 backwoods N. Wi.
Fox Claw
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,255
backwoods N. Wi.
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So lets not confuse pelt priming (skin side) with the quality of the fur. Two different things here. I'm still following this post, its still intriguing. White17, great, informative posts. I think I read your post correctly, and I think your saying that the loss of daylight (and the insuing endocrine response) is what turns the skin side from blue to white. I can agree with this 100%. Others here seem to be using a diffrent definition of "prime." Most people seem to be using the hair side at its peak of thickness and fluffiness, as the defining characteristic of "prime." Anyway, I just realized that your right, these are "two diffrent things" , completly diffrent things. This alone may be part of the problem. Back to the Texas yote brought to minnesota. Let's say we brought a few truck loads of them up here and keep them isolated from the locals. Let's also assume that we kept them here for many generations. In the end, I think we'd all agree that they will have a thicker coat than the orininals brought from texas, but why is that? It's because each and every year, every generation, will have a few animals that develop a thicker, fuller, warmer coat on their own. These animals will be the likliest to survive and will be the most sucessful breeders. This slow adaptation, on a yearly basis, is what will result in the thicker coat of the entire population. Its natural selection, as a result of temprature, that will change the coat geneticly. Evolution proves that temprature has an effect on animals hair growth on a yearly basis. As far as the time of year (within days) that the skin turns blue to white, I can't see how temprature would effect that. Other than the obvious fact that the further from the equator you get the colder it gets, and therefore the less daylight in winter. Sort of a "which came first - chicken or egg" argument. Seems like everyone here is more in aggrement than they realize, more a matter of syntax than anything else.
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Re: What makes a fur turn prime....
[Re: Fox Claw]
#852423
08/26/08 11:36 AM
08/26/08 11:36 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,192 ID-40
johnsd16
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,192
ID-40
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[quote=white17] Back to the Texas yote brought to minnesota. Let's say we brought a few truck loads of them up here and keep them isolated from the locals. Let's also assume that we kept them here for many generations. In the end, I think we'd all agree that they will have a thicker coat than the orininals brought from texas, but why is that? It's because each and every year, every generation, will have a few animals that develop a thicker, fuller, warmer coat on their own. These animals will be the likliest to survive and will be the most sucessful breeders. This slow adaptation, on a yearly basis, is what will result in the thicker coat of the entire population. Its natural selection, as a result of temprature, that will change the coat geneticly. Evolution proves that temprature has an effect on animals hair growth on a yearly basis.
I don't think we'd all agree. I might, but no one else would agree with you. Whisker........ I think I love you.
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Re: What makes a fur turn prime....
[Re: johnsd16]
#852469
08/26/08 12:09 PM
08/26/08 12:09 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,628 evansville Indiana age72
don Wolf
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,628
evansville Indiana age72
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Ok I am going to make a input into this thread. Maybe I am wrong in my thoughts but it is what I have learned or thought I learned. A hide in prime condition will have 3 parts to it. The guard hair, the underfur and the leather. From what I understand, the leather begins to prime in the month of Sept. This occurs as the summer guard hair and what little bit of fur the animal has, begins to shed. As the shedding process takes place the underfur and guardhair start to be replaced by new growth. As the month of oct. comes the leather on an animal goes from a blackish color in early oct. to a blueish color towards the middle of oct. Towards the last of oct. the leather starts turning a very light blue or slaty color and in some circumstances a light creamy color. As the month of nov. comes along the leather starts to turn a crem color which tells us the fur is becomming prime. As december rolls around , you will find allmost all pelts to be prime with the exception of a few animals that were lacking enough protein to build a good strong fur base. after the month of dec. we will see a leather that is prime but the fur and guard hair or going downhill. From what I understand the creamy color of the leather comes from the development of the underfur. From what I understand each filiment of underfur has a bulbous typ root to it. As the underfur is increased in volume it causes the leather to take on a creamy typ color. The colder or warmer weather causes more or less amt. of density or heaviness in the underfur. Not only does the amt. of daylight have something to do with fur primeing but the amt. of protein taken in also causes fur primness. In my own thoughts on the subject, I think the different kinds of food an animal eats can also cause a certain amt. of quality.. I know in this area that we have a bit of trouble with female coons that never prime durring season. I have always been told the reason for this was that the young coon had kept the mother depleated of her protein to help build fur, through their suckling. I could go on for hours about this , but, I think I get my general point acrossed.
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Re: What makes a fur turn prime....
[Re: Fox Claw]
#852588
08/26/08 01:31 PM
08/26/08 01:31 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,808 Logan County KY
mark
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,808
Logan County KY
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Don, had you got in on the beginning of this, it would be on page 3 by now, and the other 150 or so posts wouldn't be here. Folks, don't worry about it, trap what you got, don't trap before your fur is prime (mid Nov in most places), and let nature do what nature does.
A "half truth" is still a whole lie.
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Re: What makes a fur turn prime....
[Re: johnsd16]
#852836
08/26/08 05:06 PM
08/26/08 05:06 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 143 Corrales NM
Wackyquacker
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 143
Corrales NM
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Oh my gosh, now you guys have really lost me. That wasn't too hard; since that portion of my post was a total spoof...you got the last portion on estrus but seemed to have missed photosynthesis...pigment facilitated... Again, if you disbelieve the relationship with hair growth and photoperiod what is your hypothesis to explain the observed changes collectively known as "priming"?
Hard tellin not knowin
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