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Mountain Man Monday 12/8 #8519170
9 hours ago
9 hours ago
Joined: Oct 2009
east central WI
K
k snow Offline OP
trapper
k snow  Offline OP
trapper
K

Joined: Oct 2009
east central WI
Let's talk about tobacco, and its trade value in the mountains.
A lot of tobacco was gifted to the Indians, as peace offerings and to open up trade discussions.
Tobacco also had significant trade value:

From Bradbury:
we found a considerable number of Indians assembled to trade. They gave jerked
buffalo meat, tallow, corn, and marrow; and in return they received tobacco in carottes, vermillion,
blue beads, &c.


It was judged expedient to trade with the Indians for some jerked
buffalo meat, and more than 1000 lbs. was obtained for as much tobacco as cost two dollars.


From W.A. Ferris:
The following afternoon we passed a Pawnee village situated on the opposite bank of
the river, and sent, as customary, a present of tobacco, powder, balls etc., to these tribute‑taking
lords of forest, field and flood, the heart of whose wild dominion we are now traversing.


From: The 1837 Fort Jackson Trading Camp Inventory: A Typical Outfit for the Plains Indian Trade and What it Tells Us About the Plains Indian Consumer ©Michael Schaubs 2015
According to the FJI (Fort Jackson Inventory), 90 pounds of what appears to be a single grade of tobacco was taken.
Almost certainly some portion of the tobacco was intended for use as gifts to establish good will and friendship prior to commencing trade.
The remaining tobacco would have been highly profitable as a trade item. The average markup of tobacco products on the FHL (Fort Hall Lists) is roughly 1100%.


From Danial Potts:
There is a poor prospect of making much here, owing to the evil disposition of the Indians and
the exorbitant price of goods. For example,
Powder $2 50 per lb.
Lead 1 50
Coffee 2 00
Sugar 2 00
Tobacco 2 00
Vermilion 6 00
Beads 5 00
Pepper 6 00
Blankets (three point) 15 00
cotton stripe, per yard 2 50
Calico do.
scarlet Cloth (coarse) do 10 00
Blue Cloth (coarse) do 8 00
Ribband, per Yd 0 75
Brass nails, per dozen 0 50
Horses cost from 150 dollars to 300, and some as high as 500.


Interior of an Indian Lodge, by Alfred Jacob Miller. We can see Capt. Stewart smoking a pipe.
[Linked Image]

Re: Mountain Man Monday 12/8 [Re: k snow] #8519178
9 hours ago
9 hours ago
Joined: Dec 2006
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
williamsburg ks
Sure seems like profit motivated most white men that went west. At least on paper. I suspect the true, maybe not even admitted to their selves reason, was adventure.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Mountain Man Monday 12/8 [Re: danny clifton] #8519184
9 hours ago
9 hours ago
Joined: Oct 2009
east central WI
K
k snow Offline OP
trapper
k snow  Offline OP
trapper
K

Joined: Oct 2009
east central WI
Originally Posted by danny clifton
Sure seems like profit motivated most white men that went west. At least on paper. I suspect the true, maybe not even admitted to their selves reason, was adventure.


I've read a fair number of writings from those guys that were looking for adventure, or to see Indians.

Several went West for health reasons, it was believed the drier air would help their conditions.

Profit was a motivating factor to most also, but I believe moreso to the company organizers.

Re: Mountain Man Monday 12/8 [Re: k snow] #8519189
9 hours ago
9 hours ago
Joined: Aug 2012
Blackduck Minnesota
B
Big Sam Offline
trapper
Big Sam  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Aug 2012
Blackduck Minnesota
Another great post, k snow. Appreciate it.

Re: Mountain Man Monday 12/8 [Re: k snow] #8519226
8 hours ago
8 hours ago
Joined: Dec 2009
The Hill Country of Texas
Leftlane Offline
"HOSS"
Leftlane  Offline
"HOSS"

Joined: Dec 2009
The Hill Country of Texas
x2


What"s good for me may not be good for the weak minded.
Captain Gus McCrae- Texas Rangers


Re: Mountain Man Monday 12/8 [Re: k snow] #8519290
7 hours ago
7 hours ago
Joined: Sep 2013
Green County Wisconsin
G
GREENCOUNTYPETE Offline
trapper
GREENCOUNTYPETE  Offline
trapper
G

Joined: Sep 2013
Green County Wisconsin
I am not a smoker but a nice pipe tobacco from from about 20 yards in a light breeze is a welcome scent.

on the contrary I was in MKE yesterday and geeze I have never smelled so many skunks out with such low temps it was about everywhere in the 3rd ward they definitely need some trappers down there.


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: Mountain Man Monday 12/8 [Re: k snow] #8519426
3 hours ago
3 hours ago
Joined: Dec 2006
Oregon
beaverpeeler Offline
trapper
beaverpeeler  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Oregon
Here's my little contribution to the topic:

In 1826 David Douglas, the famous British botanist ,was in the Oregon country at the behest of the London Botanical Society and hosted by Hudson Bay Co. Here is a tidbit from page #58 from Jack Nisbet's book "The Collector":

The collector's ten-day jaunt up the Willamette added more than two dozen species to his master list, including a small purple iris later designated with douglasii for its species name. Two other plants of great interest came from the Kalapuya village. The first was a native tobacco, for which he had been on the alert since his arrival. Up until this point in his stay, he had seen only a single tobacco plant, in the hand of an Indian at the Cascades who, to Douglas's great frustration, refused to exchange it for any consideration-----not even for two full ounces of English tobacco. He had been searching diligently ever since, and when he came across a hidden garden in a small forest opening near the village, he "supplied myself with seeds and specimens without delay".

Douglas, however, was much less alone in the wild than he imagined, and the owner of the plot soon caught up with him. Avoiding what could have been a serious affront----tobacco had a spiritual significance in many tribal rituals-----Douglas whipped out his own manufactured strain as a peace offering and called upon his Chinook jargon to inquire about growing methods. The Kalapuya man accepted the gift, then described the tribal technique of searching out an open area in the woods with plenty of downed trees. They burned the deadfall, then planted tobacco seed in the ashes. Douglas, long a fan of "the good effects produced on vegetation by the use of carbon" was well pleased. "When we smoked," he concluded at the end of his account for plant #447 "we were all in all."


My fear of moving stairs is escalating!
Re: Mountain Man Monday 12/8 [Re: k snow] #8519436
3 hours ago
3 hours ago
Joined: Oct 2009
east central WI
K
k snow Offline OP
trapper
k snow  Offline OP
trapper
K

Joined: Oct 2009
east central WI
Nice one, 'peeler. A shared pipe smoothed over many perceived transgressions in those times.

Re: Mountain Man Monday 12/8 [Re: k snow] #8519447
2 hours ago
2 hours ago
Joined: Dec 2006
Oregon
beaverpeeler Offline
trapper
beaverpeeler  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Oregon
The part of the story I find compelling is the local Indians apparently preferred their own native "tobacco" plant over the Virginian strain.

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]


Last edited by beaverpeeler; 2 hours ago.

My fear of moving stairs is escalating!
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