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Mountain Man Monday 1/12 #8542794
11 hours ago
11 hours ago
Joined: Oct 2009
east central WI
K
k snow Offline OP
trapper
k snow  Offline OP
trapper
K

Joined: Oct 2009
east central WI
Last week's post started with mountain men who we knew little about and drifted off to horses.
Let's talk about horses. Having a horse was essential in the West. Distances were huge, and you needed something to carry gear, etc.

From William Ashley, on horse feed:
I was exceedingly surprised and no less gratified at the sight of a grove of timber, in appearance,
distant some two or three miles on our front. It proved to be a grove of cottonwood of the sweetbark
kind suitable for horse food, situated on an island, offering among other conveniences, a
good situation for defence.


From John Ball, horse was a menu option when times got tough:
So for food we killed an old horse. But hungry as
we were, this did not relish well. But I will show that horse, in good condition is good food, for I
afterwards tested it.


From John Ball, Spaniards in California using horses to capture wild bulls (cattle, not buffalo):
And here our ship lay for many days. On one, I saw a Spaniard noose with his lasso a wild bullock
on the shore, or rather two of them. And thus mounted on their horses, used to the business,
one threw and caught him by his horns, and then wound his lasso around the high pummel of
his strong, well girthed saddle, and the horse stood and held him. But they wishing to throw him
down, so as to butcher him, the other man threw his so accurately that by his first move the ox
stepped into the noose, which caught him by his foot. Then each turned their horses in opposite
directions and starting up they laid him flat on the ground in a twinkling. And then the horses
keeping their stand, one dismounted and cut his throat.


From John Bradbury, on marking horses for ownership:
After our return, I went to the trading house, and found that the
trade for horses went on very briskly. The instant a horse was bought, his tail was cropped, to render
him more easily distinguished from those belonging to the Indians, which are in all respects
as nature formed them.


Also from Bradbury, describing and Indian saddle, apparently not comfortable to him:
The reflections on my situation, combined with the pain occasioned by mosquitoes, kept me from
closing my eyes; in addition to this, I had already painfully experienced the effects of an Indian
saddle, which I shall describe. It consists of six pieces of wood: two of these are strong forked
sticks, one of which is formed to fix on the shoulders of the horse; the other is adapted to the lower
part of the back: they are connected by four flat pieces, each about four inches in breadth: two
of these are so placed as to lie on each side of the backbone of the horse, which rises above them;
the two others are fastened to the extremities of the forked sticks, and the whole is firmly tied by
thongs. Two strong slips of buffalo hide are doubled over each of the upper connecting pieces,
for the purpose of holding the stirrup, which is formed of a stick about two feet long, and cut half
way through in two places, so as to divide it into three equal parts: at these places it is bent, and
when the two ends are strongly tied, it forms an equilateral triangle. The conjunct end of the foremost
forked stick rises to the height of eight or ten inches above the back of the horse, and serves
to fasten on it the coiled end of the long slip of dried skin intended to serve as a bridle: this slip is
also made use of to fasten the horse at night, to allow him sufficient space wherein to graze, and is
mostly fifty or sixty feet long. Under the saddle is laid a square piece of buffalo skin, dressed with
the hair upon it, and doubled four-fold, and on the saddle the rider fixes his blanket.


From George Catlin, on buffalo running horses:
Such is the training of men and horses in this country, that this work of death and slaughter is
simple and easy. The horse is trained to approach the animals on the tight side, enabling its rider
to throw his arrows to the left; it runs and approaches without the use of the halter, which is
hanging loose upon its neck bringing the rider witllin three or four paces of the animal, whem the
arrow is thrown with great ease and certainty to the heart; and instances sometimes occur, where
the arrow passes entirely through the animal’s body.


Snake and Sioux on the Warpath, by Alfred Jacob Miller, showing how Indians would use their horse as a shield.
[Linked Image]

Re: Mountain Man Monday 1/12 [Re: k snow] #8542823
10 hours ago
10 hours ago
Joined: Jan 2023
Pennsylvania
elsmasho82 Offline
trapper
elsmasho82  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2023
Pennsylvania
Reminds me of Medicine Wolf riding into the rondy doing tricks on horseback

Re: Mountain Man Monday 1/12 [Re: k snow] #8542829
10 hours ago
10 hours ago
Joined: Aug 2012
Blackduck Minnesota
B
Big Sam Online content
trapper
Big Sam  Online Content
trapper
B

Joined: Aug 2012
Blackduck Minnesota
Thank you k snow.

Re: Mountain Man Monday 1/12 [Re: k snow] #8542940
6 hours ago
6 hours ago
Joined: Mar 2011
Montana , Big Mtns.
Sharon Offline

"American Honey"
Sharon  Offline

"American Honey"

Joined: Mar 2011
Montana , Big Mtns.
Thank you , KS, for that interesting history. I didn't mean for you to go to any inconvenience researching, it's just me that generally likes things that most others aren't so interested in, anyway.

I do feel, what is a good Mtn. man without a good horse ? I would think they were attracted to good horses as much as they were the fur industry. Tools of success. And survival.

Those Indian "saddles" sounded horrible. I feel for the horses who had to endure ill-fitting gear . No wonder they stacked fur hides and blankets below and on top of them.

I do know the Mtn. men had their add-ons to saddles they used , some had a cross of Indian and more conventional cowboy gear .

I go back to the Nez Perce tribe...they were the only ones I've read who did everything for their herd care and training , the best techniques of the time.


http://www.illustrationsinmotion.com/index.html
" A wuff is a wuff, is a wuff. " Jack Whitman
Re: Mountain Man Monday 1/12 [Re: Sharon] #8542946
6 hours ago
6 hours ago
Joined: Oct 2009
east central WI
K
k snow Offline OP
trapper
k snow  Offline OP
trapper
K

Joined: Oct 2009
east central WI
Originally Posted by Sharon
Thank you , KS, for that interesting history. I didn't mean for you to go to any inconvenience researching, it's just me that generally likes things that most others aren't so interested in, anyway.

I do feel, what is a good Mtn. man without a good horse ? I would think they were attracted to good horses as much as they were the fur industry. Tools of success. And survival.

Those Indian "saddles" sounded horrible. I feel for the horses who had to endure ill-fitting gear . No wonder they stacked fur hides and blankets below and on top of them.

I do know the Mtn. men had their add-ons to saddles they used , some had a cross of Indian and more conventional cowboy gear .

I go back to the Nez Perce tribe...they were the only ones I've read who did everything for their herd care and training , the best techniques of the time.



No inconvenience at all. Horses are a relatively easy topic to grab some information about, as everyone always talked about them.

Like all their gear, saddles were fairly "primitive", and not as friendly to use as what we have today. The Spanish (and Mexicans) did make some nice saddles.

I am sure the trappers loved god horses, but more often than not, they took any horse they could get. Beggars can't be choosers and all.

Re: Mountain Man Monday 1/12 [Re: k snow] #8542951
6 hours ago
6 hours ago
Joined: Dec 2006
Oregon
beaverpeeler Offline
trapper
beaverpeeler  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Oregon
Horses were sure an important item in the mountains. I recall countless numbers of stories where mountain men are attempting to buy horses from the Indians after their own have fared poorly or come up lame. You really needed that transportation and the Indians most often were not anxious to part with any of their herd so prices were steep.

Good stuff K


My fear of moving stairs is escalating!
Re: Mountain Man Monday 1/12 [Re: k snow] #8542954
6 hours ago
6 hours ago
Joined: Dec 2006
Oregon
beaverpeeler Offline
trapper
beaverpeeler  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Oregon
Hey K, how many beaver pelts could a horse carry if its sole purpose was to pack stuff?


My fear of moving stairs is escalating!
Re: Mountain Man Monday 1/12 [Re: k snow] #8542964
6 hours ago
6 hours ago
Joined: Oct 2009
east central WI
K
k snow Offline OP
trapper
k snow  Offline OP
trapper
K

Joined: Oct 2009
east central WI
Here's General Thomas James receiving the gift of a fine war horse from a Towash Indian.

"Here is my war horse Checoba. I give him to you: no horse among the Camanches will catch him. He will
carry you away from every enemy and out of any danger.” With this he led up a splendid black
horse, worthy and fit to have borne a Richard Coeur De Leon, or a Saladin, into their greatest battles.
No Arab could ever boast a finer animal than this; the finest limbed, the best proportioned,
the swiftest and the most beautiful I ever saw. I brought him home, but before leaving the wilderness,
his speed was greatly impaired by the bite of a rattlesnake.

Re: Mountain Man Monday 1/12 [Re: beaverpeeler] #8542965
6 hours ago
6 hours ago
Joined: Oct 2009
east central WI
K
k snow Offline OP
trapper
k snow  Offline OP
trapper
K

Joined: Oct 2009
east central WI
Originally Posted by beaverpeeler
Hey K, how many beaver pelts could a horse carry if its sole purpose was to pack stuff?


I'll do some digging, but I want to say they carried three or four packs at a time. A pack was about 90 pounds.

Re: Mountain Man Monday 1/12 [Re: k snow] #8543006
5 hours ago
5 hours ago
Joined: Mar 2011
Montana , Big Mtns.
Sharon Offline

"American Honey"
Sharon  Offline

"American Honey"

Joined: Mar 2011
Montana , Big Mtns.
Originally Posted by k snow
Here's General Thomas James receiving the gift of a fine war horse from a Towash Indian.

"Here is my war horse Checoba. I give him to you: no horse among the Camanches will catch him. He will
carry you away from every enemy and out of any danger.” With this he led up a splendid black
horse, worthy and fit to have borne a Richard Coeur De Leon, or a Saladin, into their greatest battles.
No Arab could ever boast a finer animal than this; the finest limbed, the best proportioned,
the swiftest and the most beautiful I ever saw. I brought him home, but before leaving the wilderness,
his speed was greatly impaired by the bite of a rattlesnake.


Interesting account, thank you ! I would have loved to see a photo of that one. The Arabians have had and still do have the finest horses on earth. It is said by many that most if not all breeds of contemporary horses have Arabian of some sort in their beginnings.
All horses brought to America came from Arabian descent . There are various types of Arabians, the Spanish Arab being one of the best. No doubt that fine black horse had the Arab lineage too. Arabs are still dominant in the most grueling endurance races offered on earth.

Beav's comment made me think of the logo I did for Wisconsin rondy a couple of years ago. A Mtn man with his beaver hoops layered on either side with other fur piled in center on his riding horse. I love doing art like this.

Thank you K Snow, for allowing us to share with your very neat history info.

[Linked Image]


http://www.illustrationsinmotion.com/index.html
" A wuff is a wuff, is a wuff. " Jack Whitman
Re: Mountain Man Monday 1/12 [Re: k snow] #8543011
4 hours ago
4 hours ago
Joined: Feb 2008
NE Indiana
L
Larry Hall Offline
trapper
Larry Hall  Offline
trapper
L

Joined: Feb 2008
NE Indiana
Value of the horse was reflected in the punishment for stealing one.. Hanging offense.. Even a bad horse was a necessary thing out yonder in those times lol.. and I'd guess bad ones made the stew pot first in tough times..

Re: Mountain Man Monday 1/12 [Re: k snow] #8543014
4 hours ago
4 hours ago
Joined: Dec 2009
The Hill Country of Texas
Leftlane Offline
"HOSS"
Leftlane  Offline
"HOSS"

Joined: Dec 2009
The Hill Country of Texas
A good horse would have great value and I'm guessing even a poor one was generally better than none at all. Larry is right, if stealing a horse was a capital offense then the agreed value of a horse was obviously high.


What"s good for me may not be good for the weak minded.
Captain Gus McCrae- Texas Rangers


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