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Interesting 2A Case #8577505
03/05/26 01:38 PM
03/05/26 01:38 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
2A Sanctuaries-W. OK & N. NM
Blaine County Offline OP
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Blaine County  Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2010
2A Sanctuaries-W. OK & N. NM
The U.S. Supreme Court heard argument this week on whether people who use, for example marijuana, can possess a gun.

To summarize, the Federal Government argued that the 2A does not prevent it from disarming people who use marijuana.

It appears, based on what I have read, the Court will side with the 2A and against the Feds.


You can read about it below.

https://www.scotusblog.com/2026/03/...ing-drug-users-from-possessing-firearms/

The Supreme Court on Monday was skeptical that the indictment of a Texas man on charges that he violated a federal law prohibiting the possession of a gun by the users of illegal drugs could go forward. Ali Danial Hemani argued that the law violates the Second Amendment – which guarantees “the right of the people to keep and bear Arms” – as it applies to him, and a majority of the justices appeared to agree.

In 2022, FBI agents found a pistol, marijuana, and cocaine at Hemani’s home. Hemani told the agents that he used marijuana roughly every other day.

Hemani was charged with violating a federal law that makes it a crime for anyone who is “an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance” to have a gun. A federal trial judge threw out the charge, at Hemani’s request. U.S. District Judge Amos Mazzant relied on a recent decision by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 5th Circuit, which had held that the law used to indict Hemani is unconstitutional when it is used to charge someone who may have used drugs regularly, but was not shown to be under the influence of drugs when he had the gun. The court of appeals upheld that ruling, prompting the federal government to come to the Supreme Court.

Representing the federal government, Principal Deputy Solicitor General Sarah Harris told the justices that “[t]he Second Amendment does not prohibit the government from temporarily disarming habitual marijuana users while they persist in using frequently. That tailored restriction,” Harris said, “easily fits within the historical tradition of disarming categories of people who present a special danger of misuse.” And as the Supreme Court’s recent Second Amendment cases require, Harris argued, the government had provided a “historical analogue” to the modern law “that is relevantly similar [in] why and how it restricts Second Amendment rights”: early American laws providing for the imprisonment or confinement of “habitual drunkards.”

Justice Neil Gorsuch focused on what he characterized as a more basic point: whether Hemani even qualified as a “habitual user” of marijuana. Gorsuch first observed that the term “habitual drunkard” carried a very different meaning in early American history, because people generally drank alcohol more often and in greater volumes. “John Adams,” Gorsuch said, “took a tankard of hard cider with his breakfast every day,” while “James Madison reportedly drank a pint of whiskey every day.”

And if those Founding Fathers were not “habitual drunkards,” Gorsuch continued, “then what do we know about Mr. Hemani? We know he uses marijuana … about every other day.” “[W]e don’t even know the quantity of how much he uses every other day,” Gorsuch emphasized. And the federal government, Gorsuch said, “has not been able to define what a user is.”

Justice Amy Coney Barrett shared a similar concern, asking Harris about a scenario in which someone takes the sleeping pill Ambien, for which their spouse has a prescription. Would that mean, Barrett asked, that the person with the prescription for Ambien would not violate the law at the center of this case, but the spouse who did not have the prescription would?

When Harris answered that Barrett was correct, Barrett pushed back. Barrett told Harris that she “agree[d] … that legislatures can regulate to keep guns out of the hands of dangerous people.” But in the Ambien example, Barrett suggested, “it’s not the drug itself … that’s causing the dangerousness. It couldn’t be because, if my husband has a prescription and I don’t, what is it about Ambien itself that would make one of us more likely to be dangerous? It’s not,” Barrett said. “It’s the lawfulness. And so too here with the marijuana, I just don’t see anything in the scheme that actually reflects Congress’ judgment that this makes someone more dangerous.”

Justice Clarence Thomas also echoed these concerns, asking Harris whether someone who regularly used anabolic steroids would be barred from having a gun under the government’s interpretation. Harris told him that they would, although she stressed that anabolic steroids fall within a “schedule” – a category – that the government regards as less serious than drugs like heroin and fentanyl. The federal government, she said, “only cares really about prosecuting” users of drugs like those that have “a serious danger of abuse.”

Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson expressed broader frustration with the court’s current framework for resolving Second Amendment cases. When Harris suggested that “it is a fair judgment” that someone who frequently uses drugs like heroin, PCP, or ketamine is “exceptionally dangerous” even if they are not addicted to those drugs, Jackson acknowledged that “it might be a fair judgment,” but she contended that it was “precisely what” the court’s Second Amendment jurisprudence “prohibits, that we don’t credit the judgments of the modern legislature about who is dangerous and who needs to be disarmed as a result.”

Representing Hemani, Erin Murphy argued first that the law at the center of the case “can’t constitutionally be applied to anyone because the statute fails to provide fair notice of what makes someone an unlawful user of a controlled substance who can be stripped of their Second Amendment right.” But in any event, Murphy continued, applying the law to Hemani would still violate the Second Amendment because early American laws restricting the rights of “habitual drunkards” do not provide the kind of historical analogue that the Supreme Court’s cases require. Those laws, she said, “applied only to habitual drunkards, not to habitual drinkers.”

Murphy’s suggestion that the law was so vague as to be unconstitutional got relatively little traction. But Justice Sonia Sotomayor was receptive to Murphy’s other argument, asking whether “the government is … giving ‘unlawful user’ a definition that’s not present in the statute, correct?” And in early American history, Sotomayor continued, “there’s nothing … that has created” a definition of “use.”

Chief Justice John Roberts was skeptical that Murphy was, as she contended, seeking a narrow rule. He asked why, under the same reasoning, it wouldn’t also be unconstitutional to apply the law to someone who used drugs like PCP or methamphetamine.

Murphy responded that “the same principle should govern … but that doesn’t mean that the statute is unconstitutional as to every drug.” The restrictions placed on “habitual drunkards,” she said, rested on the idea that someone who drank so much “that they can’t care for themselves or their affairs” and have “lost self-control” would “pos[e] a public safety risk.” “[I]f you apply that” principle here, she explained, “there are going to be some substances where it may be that pretty much anybody who uses them regularly” would be too dangerous to have a gun.

That answer led to another objection from Roberts and, later, Justice Samuel Alito, who worried aloud that such a rule would require courts to engage in case-by-case decisions about whether a particular person or a particular drug is “one that’s particularly dangerous or particularly addictive.” “And it just seems to me,” Roberts said, “that takes a fairly cavalier approach to the necessary consideration of expertise and the judgments we leave to Congress and the executive branch.”

Murphy countered that courts already make these kinds of decisions on a regular basis – for example, “you have to engage in an analysis of someone’s actual use to figure out whether they’re addicted to a controlled substance.”

Alito pressed Murphy on this issue, telling her that he “struggle[d] to figure out how these individualized determinations can be made in the context of a criminal prosecution. The … way in which criminal prosecutions are conducted makes this extremely difficult,” he said. Moreover, he observed, such a determination might require expert testimony, “and the jury would decide whether the person met the test for being a dangerous person.”

Murphy tried to reassure Alito, telling him that she didn’t “think the government is going to need to do that when it comes to a lot of cases and a lot of substances.” But in any event, she continued, the key question for the jury is “whether somebody’s use is impairing their ability to function, and the government can then choose to present evidence” about the defendant’s life and the drug that he or she is alleged to use “habitually.”

It is not clear whether Alito was convinced, but Murphy may not ultimately need his vote.

A decision in the case is expected by summer.

Re: Interesting 2A Case [Re: Blaine County] #8577515
03/05/26 01:55 PM
03/05/26 01:55 PM
Joined: Oct 2024
Kansas
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someGuyInKansas Offline
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Joined: Oct 2024
Kansas
scotusblog is excellent! I'm a fequent veriwer when big cases are expected. They'll have a chat going with someone posting from the room where the judgements are read and various support staff assisting the broader discussion.

From their chat session I'll understand the rulling, the consequences, etc all before mainstream media has a 1 line breaking news banner.

They also seem to be surprising non-political attending to the logic of law.


-Joe
Re: Interesting 2A Case [Re: Blaine County] #8577516
03/05/26 01:57 PM
03/05/26 01:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Ohio
OhioBoy Offline
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OhioBoy  Offline
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Ohio
Is it odd they found cocaine in the home and never mention it, only weed? Besides its a can of worms, especially with states having legal weed.

"addicted to any controlled substance" could = the feds pulling your legal weed state purchase records (you show an ID to purchase) and using your purchase history to show that you are addicted. Is weekly purchases addicted?

The other thing to worry about is the Feds using prescriptions to show your mental health state. Anti depressants for example are pretty common in the US and can potentially be used for say the red flag law.

Can of worms... It'd be great if the Supreme court ruled that all violated your 2nd amendment but I'm doubtful they'll actually do that.

Re: Interesting 2A Case [Re: Blaine County] #8577518
03/05/26 01:58 PM
03/05/26 01:58 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
PA
E
elkaholic Offline
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PA
Correct me if I'm wrong here.

What the Justices were saying was that unless the officials can prove that the person was under the influence, and in possession of a gun, then there was nothing illegal about it.


Millions of trees die every year to print environmentalist publications
Re: Interesting 2A Case [Re: elkaholic] #8577519
03/05/26 02:01 PM
03/05/26 02:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Ohio
OhioBoy Offline
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OhioBoy  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2012
Ohio
Anyone smoking every other day would fail any pee test.

Originally Posted by elkaholic
Correct me if I'm wrong here.

What the Justices were saying was that unless the officials can prove that the person was under the influence, and in possession of a gun, then there was nothing illegal about it.

Re: Interesting 2A Case [Re: Blaine County] #8577524
03/05/26 02:06 PM
03/05/26 02:06 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
PA
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elkaholic Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
PA
OhioBoy, I think you are referring to states that have made MJ recreationally legal. I know of no MJ places in NY that take cards. We only have Medical MJ dispensaries in PA.

In talking to a few people in the medical field, if you have a medical MJ card they can't pull your purchase records as it would be a violation of HiPAA. The few medical MJ dispensaries around here only take cash.


Millions of trees die every year to print environmentalist publications
Re: Interesting 2A Case [Re: OhioBoy] #8577525
03/05/26 02:09 PM
03/05/26 02:09 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
PA
E
elkaholic Offline
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elkaholic  Offline
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PA
Originally Posted by OhioBoy
Anyone smoking every other day would fail any pee test.

Originally Posted by elkaholic
Correct me if I'm wrong here.

What the Justices were saying was that unless the officials can prove that the person was under the influence, and in possession of a gun, then there was nothing illegal about it.




But testing positive doesn't necessarily mean under the influence. You can test positive for MJ up to 30 days after use. Even longer if they do a follicle test.


Millions of trees die every year to print environmentalist publications
Re: Interesting 2A Case [Re: OhioBoy] #8577526
03/05/26 02:09 PM
03/05/26 02:09 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
2A Sanctuaries-W. OK & N. NM
Blaine County Offline OP
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Blaine County  Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2010
2A Sanctuaries-W. OK & N. NM
Originally Posted by OhioBoy
Anyone smoking every other day would fail any pee test.

Originally Posted by elkaholic
Correct me if I'm wrong here.

What the Justices were saying was that unless the officials can prove that the person was under the influence, and in possession of a gun, then there was nothing illegal about it.



A positive urinalysis does not prove intoxication. My recollection is you can fail such a test if you consumed THC in the last 30 days.

Re: Interesting 2A Case [Re: Blaine County] #8577528
03/05/26 02:10 PM
03/05/26 02:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Ohio
OhioBoy Offline
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OhioBoy  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2012
Ohio
In MI and OH the first thing you have to do is show your state issue ID when you walk in the door. Same as getting carded for cigs and beer. They even scan it. They should try that when we vote I guess too huh? lol.

Re: Interesting 2A Case [Re: Blaine County] #8577530
03/05/26 02:11 PM
03/05/26 02:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Ohio
OhioBoy Offline
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OhioBoy  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2012
Ohio
Yeah 30 days is the general rule... people at factories get busted all the time for that. Wreck a forklift, fail pee test, get fired, and havn't smoked for two weeks. Im saying that would suck in terms of a person losing their 2A rights, not that losing your job doesn't also suck.

Re: Interesting 2A Case [Re: Blaine County] #8577553
03/05/26 04:00 PM
03/05/26 04:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Georgia
warrior Offline
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Georgia
Personally I can't stand weed or the desire to do any type of drugs. But I feel the exact same way about those on scrips from the doctor for all sort of percieved issues. We as a society overmedicate across the board and big Pharma is dirty as hades pushing drugs. They created the opiod crisis.

But that said 2A is absolute as is 1A and the rest of the As. You can't regulate stupid when it comes to 2A or any other A, only punish the misuse of it. And punishment should be as severe as necessary to cause potential abusers to think twice.


[Linked Image]
Re: Interesting 2A Case [Re: Blaine County] #8577561
03/05/26 04:24 PM
03/05/26 04:24 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
OK
Aaron Proffitt Offline
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OK
That is an interesting argument being made.


Honor a Soldier. Be the kind of American worth fighting for.
Re: Interesting 2A Case [Re: Aaron Proffitt] #8577565
03/05/26 04:36 PM
03/05/26 04:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Ohio
OhioBoy Offline
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Ohio
My fear is that is why the dems support the legalization of weed. To turn around and use it against us.

Originally Posted by Aaron Proffitt
That is an interesting argument being made.


Re: Interesting 2A Case [Re: OhioBoy] #8577566
03/05/26 04:51 PM
03/05/26 04:51 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
OK
Aaron Proffitt Offline
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Aaron Proffitt  Offline
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OK
Originally Posted by OhioBoy
My fear is that is why the dems support the legalization of weed. To turn around and use it against us.

Originally Posted by Aaron Proffitt
That is an interesting argument being made.




I know you're right .


Honor a Soldier. Be the kind of American worth fighting for.
Re: Interesting 2A Case [Re: Blaine County] #8577580
03/05/26 05:58 PM
03/05/26 05:58 PM
Joined: May 2009
Champaign County, Ohio.
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KeithC Offline
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Champaign County, Ohio.
Marijuana is sort of pseudo legal in Ohio now. There are 204 licensed dispensaries of marijuana in Ohio and no limit on how many more can be opened. Federal Law still says it's illegal here, but effectively it isn't. It seems wrong for people to lose their Second Amendment rights over marijuana now.

I've never used marijuana, but know many people who have. I think it should be legal at the Federal level for adults, because it seems no worse than alcohol, which most people can use relatively problem free.

I have taken CBD and it works well at helping me sleep. It also often gives me my eidetic memory back. When taking it, I can sometimes recall 300 plus page books, I read as a child and hours of experiences, exactly as they happened. I would like to grow a small amount of hemp, to produce CBD, for our use. CBD is expensive, but extremely easy to cheaply produce. I can now legally grow marijuana in Ohio, which I have no interest in, but can't legally grow hemp, because it looks like marijuana, unless I get a license and pay a lot of money to have it tested. That's stupid.

Keith

Re: Interesting 2A Case [Re: Blaine County] #8577586
03/05/26 06:26 PM
03/05/26 06:26 PM
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South shore L.I. N.Y.
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gcs Offline
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Keith, there are low thc, high cbd cultivars available, seed prices are crazy high though....My wife had a medical MJ permit here in NY for her MS symptoms, but NY legalized pot so essentially made the medical use obsolete.
I've never used it, but did try cbd oil, never noticed a difference, but you don't know what your getting as there's no one that regulates it, could have been mostly coconut oil with a a couple leafs waved over it...

Re: Interesting 2A Case [Re: Blaine County] #8577593
03/05/26 06:37 PM
03/05/26 06:37 PM
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North East Kansas
Marty Offline
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Anyone with common sense realizes that habitual drug and/or alcohol use and carrying loaded firearms is a very bad thing.


Rise and Rise Again
Until Lambs Become Lions
Re: Interesting 2A Case [Re: Marty] #8577598
03/05/26 06:49 PM
03/05/26 06:49 PM
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Coldspring Texas
Savell Offline
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Originally Posted by Marty
Anyone with common sense realizes that habitual drug and/or alcohol use and carrying loaded firearms is a very bad thing.


….what do you have against Doc Holiday?


Insert profound nonsense here
Re: Interesting 2A Case [Re: Blaine County] #8577605
03/05/26 06:57 PM
03/05/26 06:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
North East Kansas
Marty Offline
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Marty  Offline
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North East Kansas
He is my huckleberry


Rise and Rise Again
Until Lambs Become Lions
Re: Interesting 2A Case [Re: gcs] #8577616
03/05/26 07:07 PM
03/05/26 07:07 PM
Joined: May 2009
Champaign County, Ohio.
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KeithC Offline
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KeithC  Offline
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Originally Posted by gcs
Keith, there are low thc, high cbd cultivars available, seed prices are crazy high though....My wife had a medical MJ permit here in NY for her MS symptoms, but NY legalized pot so essentially made the medical use obsolete.
I've never used it, but did try cbd oil, never noticed a difference, but you don't know what your getting as there's no one that regulates it, could have been mostly coconut oil with a a couple leafs waved over it...


Those are exactly what I want to grow. The seeds are expensive, but considerably cheaper than the commercially produced CBD. I could grow the CBD hemp and lie and say it's marijuana, in the very rare chance I was questioned about it, but I shouldn't have to.

The CBD I first tried was made by a member I trust. The other CBD I used was tested by an independent laboratory from the seller.

Keith

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