I am curious on some of your thoughts.
Well, I was not sure how to title this or ask so I just will go for it. I have read many threads over the years and had many questions but do not wade into them. This one is based from the discussion with the thread: Divorced and alone in old age? I did not want to interrupt his thread.

Towards the end of that thread discussion, it turned toward calling out non-christians or non-chrsitian beliefs.
This is where my question comes in.

With so many different views of a Christian (even on Trapperman) and what beliefs one has, how is that determined? How is that because of the Bible you read, and what you believe is the correct beliefs? (different Bibles, different wording, interpreted different ways, different religions) How are you to judge others and what they believe? In my careers dealing with the public I have had so called Christians call out my faith or question my beliefs. They have no idea of what I believe and my relationship with God. But their behaviors are very what I would consider Unchristian.
Thoughts ?

I very much know God is real and I do see what you are saying with regards to judging. I see it all the time. What I keep in the forefront of my mind is Matthew 7:1 "Do not judge, that you be not judged." It is not our place to judge. With that said, however, we are humans and sinners by nature.

I agree. I'm a Christian and I don't judge others based on their religious views.

your questions could be legitimately asked of EVERY religion.

Those beliefs are determined by many in what faith backgrounds they were brought up in....But, I always admired the people who studied, and made their belief system through dilligence & prayer.

Believe there will be people of many different faiths in Heaven, and also believe there isn't just one path either.

Beware of those that say their faith is the only way....There are several faiths that will work, and the contents of your heart are where it's at, not a particular doctrine.

If what you say is correct Jesus is a lier and I doubt God would make one of the paths to Heaven be through a lier.

When a person starts believing what they want they start making their own religion up. And then there would be no truth.

Truth lies in the scriptures. As far as judging other there are scenarios when the Bible calls us to judge others and there are times it tells us not to. Got to find the whole context of what your reading.

I didn't say Jesus wasn't the only way...He is...We're talking different religions.

I must of been confused by your post, I thought you stated there isnt just one path too heaven. And my belief is there is and its the path through Jesus Christ.

Yes, your correct....Jesus is the one, and the only way to Heaven.

It's the paths of different doctrines/religions saying do it our way, or you will go to hades, I was referring to.

Faith specific, like if your not Baptist your going to hades, etc.

I agree and with that when people believe theirs is the only way and judge others how do we know they are right or wrong?



I agree with your statement truth lies in the scriptures but what version? Who says Lutherans, Baptists, Catholics, etc. are right or wrong? When we read anything we interpret it, whos' interpretation of the word is correct? Who are we to judge (other than actions specifically) according to your own beliefs of the word?

OK im with you. Ky coyote

I thought this was settled. From what I understand when conversing with brothers and sisters of the Church of Christ denomination they are the only ones going to heaven. Us poor old Baptist want ever make it off the ground.

Bear Tracker as far different versions of Scripture i have four different versions of the Bible in my house and have looked at a few more. They pretty much say the same thing. Now sometimes there is scripture that is hard to understand and one might kind of point u in one direction by how its worded and another might kind of point u a different direction but those cases are rare and in those cases I have a concordance that I can look up the original Greek or Hebrew words and their meaning and that usually clears it up. Also the Holy Spirit will help in your understanding if you seek and hear. As far as different denominations, if there teaching isnt lining up with scripture they are wrong. Now there are some minor things that we can disagree on because the Bible doesn't always give us a clear answer but those things are secondary. All teaching should line up with what the Bible teaches in full context and its up to each believer to grow there own knowledge of Truth so that we cant be mislead.

I know that Catholics do/believe things that aren't in The Bible, for one example. Not my place to judge, but there's that.

There is a scriptual bases and from that we humans can manufacture what we like to raise up or forget. Just look at the current senate hearings and listen to the two widley different views each side has on very similar data or info and that is with currently only 2 parties and 250 years to hone our "skills" Compare that to scripture or the Bible which parts were written over 5,000 years ago down to 2,000 years ago and by several different authors and then being sifted and winnowed by hundreds of leaders, sects and denominations. Is it any wonder that with that many generations humans have been able to build the walls they want and the walls can be used to keep people in our out, whichever fits their needs at that time. Could be similar with other religions as well.

Bryce

Simple, for me anyway. Don't allow them to judge you and don't judge them. Let God deal with it. He's do a far better job of judgeing them than I ever could. Your thoughts are your own till they come out your mouth. Then they become a judgement.

Rom 14:4  Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. 

Oh yeah, I've been told by the COC bunch I'm going to hades, so has my wife, and even my grandmother, Lol.

Ill open the can of worms, remember when people were told to convert to christianity or be killed? Use to be a somewhat bloody religion. I know its not the only religion like that. I do believe on a higher power, dunno if its god, odin, or some other superior being. Just know im not in a hurry to find out yet.

In C.S. Lewis's "The Last Battle" Emeth, who basically represents a Muslim and Aslan, who represents Jesus meet and have a conversation. Emeth is a goodly man who serves an evil god.

"Then I fell at his feet and thought, Surely this is the hour of death, for the Lion (who is worthy of all honour) will know that I have served Tash all my days and not him. Nevertheless, it is better to see the Lion and die than to be Tisroc of the world and live and not to have seen him.

But the Glorious One bent down his golden head and touched my forehead with his tongue and said, Son, thou art welcome.

But I said, Alas, Lord, I am no son of Thine but the servant of Tash.

He answered, Child, all the service thou hast done to Tash, I account as service done to me.

Then by reason of my great desire for wisdom and understanding, I overcame my fear and questioned the Glorious One and said, Lord, is it then true, as the Ape said, that thou and Tash are one?

The Lion growled so that the earth shook (but his wrath was not against me) and said, It is false. Not because he and I are one, but because we are opposites, I take to me the services which thou hast done to him. For I and he are of such different kinds that no service which is vile can be done to me, and none which is not vile can be done to him. Therefore if any man swear by Tash and keep his oath for the oath’s sake, it is by me that he has truly sworn, though he know it not, and it is I who reward him. And if any man do a cruelty in my name, then, though he says the name Aslan, it is Tash whom he serves and by Tash his deed is accepted."

Later in the dialogue, after Emeth admits he has sought Tash all his days, Aslan replies:

"Beloved, said the Glorious One, unless thy desire had been for me thou wouldst not have sought so long and so truly. For all find what they truly seek."

Yes, the "Chronicles of Narnia" was written in large part for a young audience, but it is inarguable that C.S.Lewis is one of the greatest Christian theologians of all time. His books touched me when I first read them when I was 6 years old and still do. That passage is one of the most powerful explanations of what God likely feels ever written.

Keith

Its not are job to judge. God knows what's in your hart. Also a sin is a sin. Calling someone on what apers to be sinful can be helpful.

I do believe that everything you do that is good is done for God and that everything bad you do, even if you say you are doing it for God, is done for evil instead. God can tell our true motives.



God is not weak, petty and needful. God is awe inspiring.

Keith

Here we go...

If God desired for everyone to believe exactly the same and worship him an exact way, he is more than powerful enough to make that happen. God is not petty like we are. He made us, we didn't make him. God is good.

Keith

Just finishing this book with my kids. I’m reading it for the first time. I don’t believe this series is just for kids. There is so much depth to what is written. I’m taken back by C.S’s description of Aslan. It almost brings me to tears in his description of God. I’m gunna start reading more of C.S Lewis where we’re done.

another C.S. Lewis quote I like...

Man has perverted everything he has touched.

I remember an experience where I was judged. Maybe 45 years ago, in a coal mine. I got sent out that dayshift with the belt cleaning crew, shoveling loose coal onto the conveyers. There was about six guys, and I noticed they were all wearing a leather pouch on their belts. Normally a pouch that size was worn by foreman, to carry an anemometer.

Well lunch time came, and we all sat down in a crosscut. That’s when I found out what was in those pouches….Bibles. Lunch time was transformed into a prayer meeting. I’m kinda sitting off by myself, and I got my can of Skoal out, and put in a chew. Suddenly, I had six cap lights shining in my face ( that’s a no no in the mines ). The leader chimes in…..I see the devil has Mr. XXXXX in his grip! I’m kinda took off guard, and I start looking around. Did my brother slip in to the mine? Surely he’s not talking about me. I endured a five minute lecture about the evils of tobacco, and how my body was a temple.

Turns out this gang was out of some kind of fundamentalist church. A buddy at the mine clued me in about the leader….he was the biggest thief in the mine and had a 17 year old girl move in with him.

That's funny, lol.

To answer the first question, I try to base my beliefs on what the Bible says and the life Jesus led while on this earth. We could go into weeds for a million different theological arguments, but what matters at the end of the day is the gospel of Jesus Christ.

The second one is harder, because it hurts more as a Christian. Our goal is/should be to live a life like Jesus led. Selfless, caring, loving, giving, etc. But we are humans that are born into a sinful world and continually fall short of the Glory of God. If we as Christians could live out what we preach, we wouldn't need a Savior. But we are sinners just like unbelievers, and that is why we needed Jesus to die in our place.

Luke

There will always be pretenders that preach, and are worse than even non Christians.
Only thing to remember is Jesus is the way!
God gave each of us free will.
Believe what you want!

As far as God in the old testament , saying kill all unbelievers.
Was changed when the flood , and later when Jesus rewrote the Bible, in the New Testament .
No one is perfect, not even Jesus.
That's why God put Jesus on earth to save us!
And the old Testament is just a prelude to Christianity.

Thank you for the civil responses. Next question. Around our area has grown a Chritian church group. They state to others. You do not know God, You are not Christians. Thoughts on this?

There's no good reason to care what they think about your religious beliefs. They don't represent God, they just believe they do.

Keith

The only people Christians are supposed to judge in certain situations are other people who call themselves brothers; we are not to judge non-believers.
1 Corinthians 5:9-13
1 Corinthians 5:9-13 NIV - I wrote to you in my letter not to - Bible Gateway https://share.google/5yNAazp6g3eY6wfwI

Some of the nastiest ppl I have met were ministers at our church. One minister was preaching from the pulpit one Sunday about how the US had no business telling Saddam Hussein that he couldnt have nuclear weapons. At that time there were 3 young men from our church in Iraq fighting Husseins bunch. I walked out and never went back.

Since we're talking about CS Lewis...What has registered with me most in his book Mere Christianity was.....Religion is similar to looking at a picture of the Grand Canyon. You will get an idea of what the Grand Canyon is like, but you'll never know it until you actually go there.

We all have free will, it's what you do with it that makes you who you are.
No one is perfect.

Self-discipline can be remarkable if applied correctly.

I'm a Christian and I don't believe any church of God is wrong and don't judge their believes. They all go worship God and how things are interpret is anyone guess if it is right or wrong. Just being a Christian you should know the Christian way to live.

To whom much was given ,Much will be required .

And , as CS Lewis states....Religion is like walking down a hallway with open doors. The doors are open if you wish to walk in. Only you can choose which one to walk in.

Very true. I find it interesting that every sector of Christianity still has to re-write the Bible to their liking.

Not true, they may stray, but they can't rewrite the bible.
Again no one is perfect, we have to judge ourselves, and not judge others.
There's a reason for laws, and judges, same as tax collectors.
We may not like or agree, but they were appointed, and lets' let God deal with them.
Same as turn the other cheek, that was in the old testament , so thank God he still allows warriors !
It's confusing at times, but gets better as you believe more in Jesus.
Free will is the key.
Your heart is what it is.
If you believe , you will be forgiven.

Actually, Jesus lived a sinless life.

We are called to judge what is evil from what is good.

And what part of the Bible did God say to kill the unbelievers?

You don't remember the temple ? Where he destroyed the tables of merchants and theives?
Doing so in the Holy Temple?

I’m gonna kick back and watch over 44,000 different serpents swallow their own tails on this one .

Lewis was an Anglican. Which brought us this …

who determined that His actions were a sin? You?

Actually, this is one of my favorite stories from the Bible. It proves (since Jesus was incapable of sinning), that there *IS* such a thing as Righteous Anger!

if you believe that Jesus sinned, then you are denyng Who He said He is.

Righteous Anger ?
When you destroy another's property?
If I remember right, that parable was to show that Jesus was human.

No, Jesus was in the right flipping tables as the merchants were basically defacing the temple by cheating and doing sinful things.

We must remember Jesus walked a perfect life preaching and teaching. I believe he was God in the flesh.

As to different denominations of Christianity, we as Christians must be very careful who we follow. Those denominations that push everything is okay and (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) doesn't exist probably should be avoided.

it wasn't a parable.

it happened.

Jesus didn't sin.

If He did, He isn't Who He said He is.

Verse 2 goes on to say: "For as you judge, so shall you be judged." I kinda figure rather than for me to judge, it's God's problem, not mine.
Someone once said, When you get to heaven, you might be surprised at who is there and even more surprised at who isn't.

I think your off base OW. Jesus was the spotless Lamb. If he was just another sinner like us he couldn't have paid the debt for all the rest of us. Can u as a sinner pay the debt for your children if u wanted?

Snap shot of just a smaller number of verses that point to Jesus being without sin

Some of the newer versions of the bible have changed the wording, but not the meaning. There are some non-Christian churches who have re-written the bible and changed certain passages to fit their own theologies such as the Watchtower Society. They renamed their writings to the New World Translation which totally changes the truth in many areas. A good example would be John chapter 10 where Jesus says, "Before Abraham was I AM." Since they don't believe Jesus was god, they had to rewrite that section in their new bible as though it never happened almost.

John's gospel references Jesus as god in the flesh many times. It's almost the theme of the gospel. In chapter one, John writes: "In beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. Later, verse 14: "And the Word became flesh and dwell among us." How can that not be Jesus he's referring to? All true Christian religions may have slightly rewritten it in a more modern, understandable form, but the meaning remained the same. I have 4 different bibles, Duoay-Rheims (Catholic), 2 Protestant, Vulgate editions. On those passages, the wording is slightly different, but the meaning is still the same with all of them.

You have some messed up thoughts. Sorry but there was most certainly old testament Christians and please elaborate on the imperfections of Jesus - I would like to hear them from you.

Sorry, I jumped ahead without reading Yes Sir - he quoted the scriptures about Jesus being sinless

Didn’t Jesus say that the Holy Spirit would be here to guide us?

Very much under valued in Christianity here in these times

We are to judge what they believe according to what scripture reveals. There are debatable topics where there can be give and take, but say someone is denying Jesus divinity or virgin birth or the resurrection, those are non negotiable. And the different translations don't vary on the big issues that I can see.

I miss understood the story then.
As you've stated everything you stated is fact,

I appreciate that.

I have to study the Bible more as well...there's plenty there to absorb/understand.

Faith is a gift of GOD. Religion is a tool of Man. That is why there are so many.