Who has ascended into heaven, or descended?
Who has gathered the wind in His fists?
Who has bound the waters in a garment?
Who has established all the ends of the earth?
What is His name, and what is His Son’s name,
If you know?
Proverbs 30:3-4


For unto us a Child is born,
Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of His government and peace
There will be no end,
Upon the throne of David and over His kingdom,
To order it and establish it with judgment and justice
From that time forward, even forever.
The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

Isaiah 9;6-7

I dont know who was arguing this point but it was very simple to deal with their ignorance.

wasnt on here but in a theological forum. However, it is easily shut down with just two scriptures from the old testament. perhaps 3-4 scriptures in total to keep it in context. SAtans witnesses and the mormons are chief among those whose ask this. so remember this when they knock on your door.

I do believe there are over 300 prophecies telling of Jeseus coming in the Old Testament, some quite detailed, and all were fulfilled

who are the sons of god mentioned in the old testament?

Jesus was his earthly name. But, he was mentioned as having been around as God long before that in many scriptures. John chapter 1 tells us this. John chapter 10 where he says, "Before Abraham was, I am." He created the earth: Col 1:16-17.

Always liked Isaiah 53.

A case can be made that he is the angel of the lord all throughout the Old Testament. I prepared and gave a bible study on it at Christmas a few years back. I’m pretty convinced that is the case

Could it be that that one could believe the Angel of the Lord is both an Angel and the Lord, as Christ is both fully human and fully divine. But not go over the edge as some cults and believe Jesus is a created being such as Micheal the Archangel ? To do would be breaking up the Trinity, which the cults will say its not in the bible nor is the word Rapture. But as a legalist will tell you, it is all about words and what the definition of the word "is" is !

The word Rapture isn't found in the bible. But, is a man made word describing an event written in 1Thessalonians 4:17. Where Paul writes that the living saints are caught up to meet the Lord in the air.

It isnt found in the English translation, however, in the Latin, Greek and Hebrew writings of the Bible it is there. Harpazzo(sp) and Rapturo(sp).

I failed to be concise in my original post, The Name , Son, specifically.

I think most who truly study the scripture believe Melchizedek, was in fact Jesus in flesh.

That could be. I have a copy of the Vulgate translated into English and 1Thessalonians 4:17 describes the rapture, but doesn't specify it as such.
Never heard that about Melchizedek before. I'd wonder for what purpose was Jesus Melchizedek?

that part I do not know yet.

Abraham presented Melchizedek with a tithe (a tenth) of all the items he had gathered. By this act Abraham indicated that he recognized Melchizedek as a priest who ranked higher spiritually than he.

In Psalm 110, a messianic psalm written by David (Matthew 22:43), Melchizedek is presented as a type of Christ. This theme is repeated in the book of Hebrews, where both Melchizedek and Christ are considered kings of righteousness and peace. By citing Melchizedek and his unique priesthood as a type, the writer shows that Christ’s new priesthood is superior to the old levitical order and the priesthood of Aaron (Hebrews 7:1–10).

Some propose that Melchizedek was actually a pre-incarnate appearance of Jesus Christ, or a Christophany. This is a possible theory, especially given that Abraham received such a visit later, in Genesis 17—18, when Abraham saw and spoke with the Lord (Yahweh) in the form of a man.

Hebrews 6:20 says, “[Jesus] has become a high priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.” This term order would ordinarily indicate a succession of priests holding the office. None are ever mentioned, however, in the long interval from Melchizedek to Christ, an anomaly that can be solved by assuming that Melchizedek and Christ are really the same person. Thus the “order” is eternally vested in Him and Him alone.

Hebrews 7:3 says that Melchizedek was “without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, resembling the Son of God, he remains a priest forever.” The question is whether the author of Hebrews means this actually or figuratively.

If the description in Hebrews is literal, then it is indeed difficult to see how it could be properly applied to anyone but the Lord Jesus Christ. No mere earthly king “remains a priest forever,” and no mere human is “without father or mother.” If Genesis 14 describes a theophany, then God the Son came to give Abraham His blessing (Genesis 14:17–19), appearing as the King of Righteousness (Revelation 19:11,16), the King of Peace (Isaiah 9:6), and the Mediator between God and Man (1 Timothy 2:5).

If the description of Melchizedek is figurative, then the details of having no genealogy, no beginning or ending, and a ceaseless ministry are simply statements accentuating the mysterious nature of the person who met Abraham. In this case, the silence in the Genesis account concerning these details is purposeful and better serves to link Melchizedek with Christ.

Are Melchizedek and Jesus the same person, i.e., was Melchizedek a pre-incarnate appearance of Jesus Christ? A case can be made either way. At the very least, Melchizedek is a type of Christ, prefiguring the Lord’s ministry. But it is also possible that Abraham, after his weary battle, met and gave honor to the Lord Jesus Himself.

I got this from Got Questions which I have read several times before.

just one of those mysteries within scripture we may never have revealed to us. And, I am ok with that.

Interesting. I agree with you on your last sentences too.

thank you everyone for your input, I do apologize for not being specific when I posted the question.

bene ha Elohim (Hebrew for sons of God) show up first in Job (first because it's such an old book). God holds a meeting with the bene ha elohim and Satan shows up. Satan and God discuss Job. Here, the sons of God are some sort of heavenly being. Angels? Maybe. Many modern Bible translations just use the word "angels" but the original Hebrew is bene ha elohim - sons of God.

Deuteronomy 32, God fixes the borders of the nations according the number of the sons of God. I think each Son of God got a nation and became that nations god - small G. Every nation in the old testament had it's own God. There was a Jewish tradition of wiping the dust off your feet when returning to Isreal so you didn't carry some of another nation with you. An example of this is Naaman, who Elisha healed of leprosy. Naaman wanted to worship Israel's God when he got back home to Syria so he asked for as much dirt as a mule could carry - to make an Israel patio in his back yard so he had a little bit of Israel where he could worship Israel's God. You had to worship each god in their own nation.

The setting the borders was probably a reference back to the tower of babel in Genesis 11 when the nations were first scattered across the earth.

In Gensis chapter 6, The Sons of God come to earth and have relations with the daughters of men (human women) - the results are a genetic disaster- Giants who are one of the main reasons for Noah's flood according to the Book of Enoch (which I don't believe to be scripture but it does have a lot of information about God that wasn't availalbe at the time inspired writing? I'm on the fence. The flood was largely to get rid of the genetic disaster that was violent and evil, and dangeous to humans. I believe this event is mentioned in Jude where they are just called "angels". “And the angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper dwelling, He has kept in eternal chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day.” That is judgement day when we will all be judged.

This group of angels or sons of God left their proper place (the spiritual realm) and sinned by having relations with human women and are now chained waiting for judgement day. The next verse compares this event to Sodom and Gomorrah where the sin was "sexual immorality and perversion". and the result is they will "suffer the punishment of eternal fire." which I don't believe means eternal suffering by fire. I think the fire is eternal but the angels will be destroyed in the fire (the lake of fire mentioned in the book of Revelation)