Well I broke down and bought some from Russia. Took 2 months to arrive. Is not as pleasant smelling as I'm used to. Still can recognize the tonquin smell after putting some on a cotton ball and letting the ethanol evaporate. I've used to get from Nick Wyshinski 40 years ago. He told me it was authentic. Got some from Bob Jameson in the last few years. Smelled identical to Nicks. This stuff is supposed to be 20% musk in 96% ethanol. Its a tincture from sibermusk.com Should I just used it a drop at a time in formulation and let it mellow? Will the harshness disapate?

You using it for after shave.

lol no but the thought crossed my mind. It is a pleasant smell.

Is this the same as ambreit musk,.(sp)?,..not sure I have that right. Remember working with that way back.
May be way off with that?

no different Tonquin musk

Musk ambrette is a synthetic nitromusk imitating ambrettolide, which is a macrocyclic musk that is extracted from ambrette seeds, or synthesized nowadays.

Our deer musk comes from musk deer belly glands. Its main component is L-muscone, also a macrocyclic musk, but there's more to the smell than just muscone, especially after long tincturing. Ambrette smells more like sweet flowers and fresh laundry.

Would using the grains and tincturing myself in something other than ethanol mellow it out. Because I'm thinking the ethanol is making it harsher

We tincture deer musk in vodka, this has always been the protocol, including old recipes in perfumery. Same with castors, but it's still ethanol. Haven't heard of using other solvents.

Don't know where the pure ethanol method came from, such tincture might subjectively have a stronger smell but it's not like you'll be using it in pure form, and ethanol is a ibiquitous substance in nature, not something to worry about.

Thank You

you got it from Andrei its the real thing, and not cheap nor does it extend as far as tinctureing or oil maceration
In jojaba oil (i like to use) near as far as people will tell you it does. It will retain its animalistic note but after you tincture it from its raw form
It sort of mellows out a little but still very animalistic barnyardy especially at 1:10I prefer 1:10 myself with the pod or grains in alchohol. I woukd use pure cane alchohol I really like macerateing in a couple diffrent oils this takes a few years in oil
Its expensive stuff at what you will need for formulation it just doesnt pencil out commercially
It was not used to be a sweet or pleasant odor its used as a fixtive but the nitro musks after and type 2 is very difftent from what people who buy it from the supply houses describe it
I love the smell of it myself. I wish more people would smell it and understand its qualitys and how it works in a formulation.
There are also mongollion musk deer they sale pods from or the empty pods or grains

I make a few lures for myself with it small batches its very diffrent from type 2
If thats what you are used to. Ive found it takes more then type 2
Depe ding on the desired effect and base.

Thank you You described it better than I did animalistic and barnyardy not what I'm used to.

This animalic note is interesting. Some people apparently can only smell musks partially, or can't smell certain musks at all, it has to do with the molecule size and shape, on genetics, and on how well the receptors are wired, with current health, etc.. Shortly after covid deer musk smelled pleasantly sweet, warm and skin-like to me, overall a mild smell. Then a friend smelled the same bottle, and she said it had an awful, strong "scary beast smell". I can sense the animalic note much better now and the smell is overall much more potent, but it took some training. It's difficult to imagine how animals perceive it, with their much more sensitive noses.

PARich, couple questions.
How do you know you’re getting the real deal?
Is it still unobtainably expensive?

My first thought was I got ripped off. So I don't really know. But I feel confident that it is authentic. As stated I got it from https://sibermusk.com. If I remember years ago there was a thread on here about https://sibermusk.com. I watched the site for a few years. Before I purchased any. If it wasn't legit I don't think they would last. Expensive yes. But they have small quanities to purchase.

None of the authentic materials are cheap and not priced for the average person to want to purchase. They are primarily sold to perfumers or formulators. The musk pods are not very large and are sold by the gram weight. The Siberian musk pods seem to be the most popular and are the pods that have hair on one side of the pod.

The Mongolian pods typically have tissue on both sides due to the area of the gland location upon harvesting. They are typically dried or semi dried prior to sale and use. I like the Mongolian as there is no waste as you can use the empty pod in your extraction process to draw odor from also.

It's a bit unclear what they mean by 20% musk, the pods contain a waxy reddish paste which is not fully soluble in ethanol.

Unless things have changed, the Musk deer is a CITES II species, so any derivative must come with CITES paperwork or you won't be able to prove anything if you get a mix of of synthetic muscone and indole in ethanol and maybe a pinch of the real thing. Buying whole pods would be safer, if it's possible legally.

it's got more to do with the handling traditions than with the deer anatomy. The "useless" weight is accounted for in the price, bigger pods are more expensive, per gram, because of the better shell vs contents ratio.

Have worked with musk well before covid, about the same with siberian consistantly
Many people try to claim its just a pleasant odor in reality
Its not used to be a pleasant fragrence many use it and describe it as bold animalistic especialy in oudoil attars . Its a workhorse in a fragrence or a lure
But can be used for other reasons in lure besides a fixitive.

When he talks about 1:20 hes talking about the tincture strength he purchased.
Likes jameson said its to expensive besides if you just wish to use it. A type 2 is just as good but they are vastly diffrent. Some pods are macerated in sandalwood or rosewood. That gives the pleasant misrepresented note of "musk"

1:20 makes more sense than 20% in the post above.
I meant that even my own perception of the smell of the same bottle of ticture (I tinctured about a half of the whole pod) changed a lot over time. I know that I don't sense all musks well compared to some.people. Musk ketone has a very weak powdery smell to me and another friend tried a small dab on her wrist and could feel it for a few days, and called it "intense".

To me, deer musk smells very sweet and pleasant and has more creamy, brandy-like and almost vanilla-like rather than animalic nuances. Most of the pods come from hunters in the Far East, they are usually dried in the sun or above a woodstove, nobody bothers with maceration.

We have the same perception of white musk musk keytone.
Powdery very very slight sweetish note.

The buyer wete talking about purchases them raw from hunters in the far east
Alot of perfumers in russia do use maceration especially muslim folks. Most still use white musk in prayer some prefer more traditional siberian. Further east you get more popular in oil.maceration as a attar.


Put a empty pod in front of 10 people likely to get 10 diffrent responces but most can detect the animalistic note right off