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Trump Capitalism?
#8608638
05/06/26 10:19 PM
05/06/26 10:19 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Oakland, MS
yotetrapper30
OP
trapper
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OP
trapper
Joined: May 2011
Oakland, MS
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If you don't enjoy reading...... stop now.....this isn't the post for you. For those that do like to read........ thoughts? How the Trump Administration Became an Activist Investor
by Maggie Severns, Gavin Bade, Josh Dawsey and Meridith McGraw
There is free-market capitalism and state capitalism. Now, there’s Trump capitalism.
In recent months, the president has extended his hand into American business in unorthodox and, to some corporate leaders, alarming ways—from progressive-style demands to cap credit-card rates to assertive deals grabbing government shares in private companies.
Some executives are so worried Trump will ask for a stake in their company that they have prepared for Oval Office meetings by rehearsing what they would say to fend off the president’s advances, lobbyists involved in the preparations said.
Others welcome Trump’s attention. United Airlines CEO Scott Kirby appealed to Trump with the idea of creating a “national champion” airline during meetings with Trump and top officials at the White House, people familiar with the discussions said.
United asked for regulatory permission merge with American Airlines, and top Trump aides discussed whether the U.S. should take a stake in what would be one of the biggest airlines in the world, according to people familiar with the meetings. Trump later said he didn’t support a merger, American Airlines was resistant and United abandoned its bid.
The administration talked with Spirit Airlines about providing a loan of up to $500 million in return for warrants that would have given the U.S. a significant stake in the low-cost carrier, The Wall Street Journal reported last month. When the company offered 80% in exchange for the government bailout, Trump suggested 90%, according to people familiar with the matter.
But Spirit bondholders didn’t want to subordinate their claims to the federal government, according to a person familiar with the matter. The government pulled out of negotiations, and Spirit shut down Saturday.
Administration officials are stoking the president’s instinct to shift more authority over private-sector industries to Trump and his team. The Trump administration has announced direct investment stakes in at least 10 companies, including a 10% equity stake in Intel and a “golden share” of U.S. Steel, which grants the government power to influence company decisions.
We’re seeing the government get more involved in different aspects of the economy, which is a pivot off the more traditional Republican approach of the last century,” said Kelly Ann Shaw, deputy assistant to the president for international economic affairs in Trump’s first term.
The Trump administration obtained significant shares of critical-minerals companies to counter China’s dominance in rare-earth minerals, which are crucial for industries and national defense contractors. Trump’s deputy chief of staff, James Blair, is interested in stakes from more companies, said a person familiar with the matter.
“You have China with 70% chokehold over the production of critical minerals and 90% over processing,” Shaw said. “If you just let the market do its thing, we’re not going to be able to diversify away from Chinese dominance.”
Yet Trump’s approach extends well beyond national-security concerns, which startles many large U.S. companies that fear an expansion of government power in their industries.
After the Trump administration took a stake in Intel, lobbyists said they talked with clients who sought meetings with the president and Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick and wanted to know what to say if Trump asked for a stake in their companies. The main question for executives: Would they be willing to give the administration something? If not, they wanted to know, What’s the best way to change the topic to friendlier matters without causing friction?
Decades of broken policymaking by Washington, D.C., hollowed out America’s industrial base and left Americans dependent on foreign imports for goods that are critical for our national and economic security,” White House spokesman Kush Desai said. “The Trump administration is accordingly rectifying America Last policies that have left our country behind while embracing the traditional free market policies that do work, from deregulation to tax cuts.”
In December, Trump met with The Wall Street Journal and said, “When people need something, I think we should take stakes in companies. Now, some people would say that doesn’t sound very American. Actually, I think it is very American.”
Lean left
White House officials say Trump’s approach to economic policy reflects longstanding voter frustration with big business. Some of his recent interventions were taken with an eye to the midterm elections, according to people familiar with his and his team’s thinking.
Trump’s political team in January flagged a speech by Democratic Sen. Elizabeth Warren that featured a comment about Trump’s campaign promise to cap credit-card interest rates. The president had again raised the idea. Warren said Trump was missing in action. “Why is she being critical of me?” Trump mused to an aide while watching the speech.
Soon after, Warren received a call from an unknown number and picked up. It was Trump.
The president told her the rates were too high, and she said they could work together to lower them. In an interview, Warren said she believed the traditional Republican free-market approach to economics was failing. “Donald Trump seems to be the number one Republican to figure that out,” she said.
Trump called for the interest-rate cap to begin in late January, a deadline that came and went without action from the administration.
Last summer, Trump’s economic team had brainstormed with home builders about getting more Americans to buy houses by cutting regulations to bring down costs, according to people at the meetings.
Then Republicans suffered losses in the November elections. Trump aides let home builders know that deregulation was dead, said people who were in the meetings or were briefed about them. Trump’s poll numbers on the economy were falling, and advisers wanted policies that spurred housing and could be easily understood by prospective home buyers, those people said.
In January, Trump announced policies that marked a turnabout, including a ban on institutional investors such as Blackstone from buying homes. The shift left lobbyists and trade groups unsure what to advise home builders anxious about any more Oval Office surprises. In March, the White House released an executive order on deregulating housing that didn’t touch many topics previously under discussion. Some in the industry refocused their hopes on Congress.
In a meeting with his cabinet in January, Trump echoed Democrats’ complaints about affordability, blaming health insurers for rising healthcare costs. He said he wanted to lower prices and hold “big insurance companies accountable.” His new healthcare framework calls for low-cost insurance alternatives and for striking pricing agreements with pharmaceutical companies.
“We pay the money, billions and billions, really trillions of dollars going to insurance companies,” Trump said. “We want that money to go to the people.” Details of the proposed pharmaceutical agreements haven’t been disclosed.
A White House official said the administration continues to work with Congress to pass a healthcare plan.
“This is a much different Republican Party and a much different leader than I think we’ve seen in the last 50 years,” said Suzanne Clark, president of the Chamber of Commerce, which represents many of the largest U.S. corporations and for decades has advocated for a smaller government role in the economy.
‘Horrible, horrible’
Western countries have oscillated for centuries between robust state interventionism, most pointedly President Franklin D. Roosevelt’s New Deal-era of the 1930s, and a more hands-off laissez-faire economic view that rose to prominence around the mid-1970s.
Many industrialized nations, particularly in Western Europe, have retained a larger role for the government in the economy, including partial or full state ownership of significant companies and sectors such as healthcare. China grew to an economic superpower in recent decades by fully embracing a robust state role in a capitalist economy.
During former President Joe Biden’s administration, some advisers said the government needed to abandon 1990s-era globalism in favor of industrial policies to revive U.S. manufacturing. The advisers felt the U.S. needed to rely less on overseas supply chains, especially for goods central to national security.
That push resulted in 2022 legislation that put billions of dollars into boosting domestic semiconductor manufacturing. The CHIPS and Science Act was passed to reduce U.S. reliance on foreign supply chains. Trump labeled it a “horrible, horrible” corporate giveaway last year, and his administration has in some cases used CHIPS Act money to negotiate equity investments in companies picked by his administration.
The Biden administration also considered launching a U.S. sovereign-wealth fund, Biden national security adviser Jake Sullivan and others said in interviews. They hoped to create a government-funded investment vehicle to take stakes in companies seen as valuable for national security but which needed help developing.
The idea never got off the ground, partly because administration supporters ran out of time, former officials said. It would have likely required both legal scaffolding and money appropriated by Congress. Trump proposed creating a sovereign-wealth fund on the campaign trail around that same time, but little has come of it.
To Trump allies, the Biden administration opened the door to the government’s stepped-up role in the economy and reflected bipartisan support for moving further from a laissez-faire approach.
“We’ve crossed a Rubicon as a country in terms of getting more comfortable with the government playing a slightly heavier role,” said Shaw, Trump’s first-term economic adviser. “But overall, the U.S. economy is still undoubtedly a capitalist democracy, and so what we’re talking about is fiddling around the edges instead of wholesale transformations of our economy.”
To critics, the president has embraced a form of state capitalism that expands the authority of the executive branch, recalibrating America’s traditional balance of powers. Democrats say the president has intervened in the media and entertainment sector, including on behalf of Paramount Skydance, owned by David Ellison, whose father, Larry Ellison, is a longtime Trump supporter.
The president’s policies appear to have “a side effect of concentrating power either in the hands of Trump himself or in the executive in general,” said Ilias Alami, an assistant professor of political economy at the University of Cambridge who has written a textbook on state capitalism.
Trump last August called for the resignation of Lip-Bu Tan, chief executive of chip maker Intel, after news reports on Tan’s history of doing business in China. His team had no idea that Trump wanted a share of the company as they orchestrated a meeting, a person with direct knowledge of the discussions said.
Four days later, Tan met with Trump at the White House, and 11 days later, the Commerce Department announced it would take a 10% stake in the company for $8.9 billion.
“He walked in wanting to keep his job, and he ended up giving us $10 billion for the United States,” Trump said at a news conference last August. Last week, the president said the U.S. investment in Intel had generated $30 billion in gains over the past 90 days.
The U.S. corporate stakes are held by various agencies including the Pentagon and the Commerce Department. The Trump administration hasn’t said what, exactly, the government might do with profits or dividends from the companies it has taken stakes in.
Sullivan, Biden’s former adviser, said he worried that the administration’s investment in companies might warp markets and reward cronies. He also acknowledged that some of Trump’s efforts reflect a new, bipartisan consensus on using industrial policy as a tool to enhance national security—even at the expense of free-market economics.
“We are on a new path,” Sullivan said. “The U.S. government has to bring tools to the table that solve vulnerabilities for the U.S. that the market doesn’t solve.”
Proud Leader of Moosetrot's Squad
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8608757
05/07/26 07:26 AM
05/07/26 07:26 AM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Armpit, ak
Dirt
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2010
Armpit, ak
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I just hope he picks Orren Boyle over Reardon metal.
Last edited by Dirt; 05/07/26 07:30 AM.
Who is John Galt?
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: Dirt]
#8608760
05/07/26 07:31 AM
05/07/26 07:31 AM
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Joined: Jan 2018
MN
Donnersurvivor
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Joined: Jan 2018
MN
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I just hope he picks Orren Boyle over Reardon metal. You must be a person who enjoys reading. That was one was a test of endurance for me
Chief of staff @ Mensa Tree division/vison officer
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: 8117 Steve R]
#8608789
05/07/26 08:16 AM
05/07/26 08:16 AM
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Joined: Feb 2020
Indiana
Providence Farm
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2020
Indiana
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What happens when dems get control of the Federal government and have this much control/influence in so called private business. My thought is its a move to even bigger Federal government which just leads to more corruption and that corruption will be even worse in business than it already is. Government involved in business never works out well for the middle class and lower class people. The government is historically inefficient at everything it does. Honestly it looks like a step towards socialism to me.
Very well said. I don't like the govt picking corporate winners and losers. D or R. They have been doing this for decades with regulations. That often lock out the little guy due to added cost. We have not had true free market capitalism in the country for many decades.
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: 8117 Steve R]
#8608795
05/07/26 08:32 AM
05/07/26 08:32 AM
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Joined: Mar 2010
SD
Boone Liane
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Joined: Mar 2010
SD
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I don't like the govt picking corporate winners and losers. D or R. The most recent being Spirit Airlines.
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8608925
05/07/26 01:08 PM
05/07/26 01:08 PM
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Joined: May 2010
MN
Steven 49er
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Joined: May 2010
MN
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All bailouts are bad.
Let the market set price discovery
"Gold is money, everything else is just credit" JP Morgan
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: OhioBoy]
#8608940
05/07/26 01:42 PM
05/07/26 01:42 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Oakland, MS
yotetrapper30
OP
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OP
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Joined: May 2011
Oakland, MS
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I disagree.
"Had the government not bailed out General Motors, projections suggested that nearly 1.9 million to 3 million U.S. jobs could have been lost in 2009–2010. This figure includes GM employees, suppliers, and dealership staff, as analysts predicted the liquidation of the automaker would have caused a devastating chain reaction throughout the auto industry" So? Do you think those people would have sat around and waited to die? They would have found work elsewhere. Even if that required moving south to work at an auto manufacturer that wasn't being held in a stranglehold by unions. GM should have absolutely been allowed to fail. If they had, it would have forced other automakers (and maybe even unions) to reevaluate how they were operating. By bailing them out, what lesson did that teach? That being fiscally irresponsible is an acceptable risk when you know that Uncle Sam will save you if your poor decisions catch up to you. Steven is 100% correct. All bailouts are bad. Always. No exceptions.
Proud Leader of Moosetrot's Squad
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8608953
05/07/26 02:29 PM
05/07/26 02:29 PM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Ohio, 48yo
OhioBoy
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2012
Ohio, 48yo
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Not everyone moves all over the country. My father, my grandfather, my great grandfather, my great great grandfather, and my great great great grandfather are all buried within 25 miles of my place. I'm not moving anywhere. I worked in automotive for 20 years, four hours from Detroit. 1.2 million square feet and 1200 employees. That was just one business, not counting the thousands of our suppliers we had or the contractors we used. Not to mention all of our customers around the world we sold our car parts to. You are more than welcome to think that say our current approx. 7 million unemployed people statistic should have been increased by almost 50% say and that everything would have just been fine and worked itself out but like I said I disagree. We were a one income home, with two kids born in 03 and 08... yeah we could have found work like you are saying, somewhere, but those are the numbers you read about that skew the unemployment numbers. Working somewhere for half as much just to scrape by is still unemployment and doesn't make everything all peaches and cream. You already stated your thoughts on welfare and disability. Seems to me you'd let all the plants close and then start complaining about how we pay them unemployment. There is no way we should have allowed the big three American automakers to fail so foreign automakers could prosper. I'm not sure I understand your position but plenty of businesses have already left Ohio for you. The Midwest factories across the bread basket of America have been having plenty of closures and problems and were happy to see some help. How has your investments done since the big bailout in 08? Mine have done pretty good. Bailing the automakers out wasn't some terrible thing that wrecked our economy. I mean if the economy was super crappy now b/c of the bailout I could maybe see your argument but things seem pretty good right now so I'm not sure what all of this theoretical discussion is about. From 1990 to 2026, Ohio experienced a significant reduction in its manufacturing and corporate base, losing several Fortune 500 companies and iconic regional brands through acquisitions, bankruptcy, or relocation. Reason Foundation Below is a list of major companies that went out of business, were acquired (ceasing to operate as independent Ohio entities), or relocated their headquarters. Major Ohio Corporate Closures, Mergers, and Relocations (1990–2026) National City Corp. (Cleveland): Acquired by PNC Financial Services in 2008 following the financial crisis. NCR Corp. (Dayton): Relocated headquarters to Georgia in 2009 after over 100 years in Dayton. Big Bear Stores (Columbus): Iconic grocery chain that closed or sold all stores by 2004. Revco D.S. (Twinsburg): Drugstore chain acquired by CVS in 1997. Skybus Airlines (Columbus): Ceased operations in 2008. Standard Oil Company (Ohio/SOHIO): Completely integrated into BP, losing its Ohio identity. Factory Mutual: Left the region via mergers. Ohio Brass (Mansfield): Ceased production in 1990. Tappan Appliances (Mansfield): Bought by Electrolux in 1992 and plant closed. American Crayon (Sandusky): Closed/dissolved. General Motors (Moraine Assembly) (Dayton): Closed in 2008, affecting thousands of jobs. Delphi Automotive Systems (Dayton): Various plant closures during the 2000s. Rubbermaid (Wooster/Cortland): Acquired by Newell; Ohio operations significantly scaled back, including the 2015 Cortland closure. Federated Department Stores (Macy’s/Lazarus): While still existing as Macy's, the regional HQ and iconic Lazarus brand (Columbus) was absorbed into NYC operations. Roadway Express (Akron): Merged into YRC Worldwide in 2003. Retail Chains and Other Entities KB Toys: Originally headquartered in Massachusetts but had a massive presence in Ohio malls before going out of business. Big Lots (Columbus): Filed for bankruptcy in 2024, closing multiple Ohio stores. Express (Columbus): Filed for bankruptcy in 2024, with major store closures. Melt Bar and Grilled (Cleveland): Closed many locations during financial restructuring. First Brands Group (Tiffin/Bowling Green): Closed plants in 2026 after bankruptcy. Key Contextual Factors Dayton’s Decline: Dayton lost several major companies, including Standard Register and Mead Paper Company (merged/restructured). Cleveland Manufacturing: The region has seen a steady decline in factory jobs, with companies like Premier Manufacturing Corp. and Goodrich Corp. closing plants between 2010 and 2015. WARN Notices: Data indicates high-volume layoffs and closures continuing through 2025 and 2026 in manufacturing and services
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: OhioBoy]
#8609009
05/07/26 05:30 PM
05/07/26 05:30 PM
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Joined: Feb 2015
Iowa
trapdog1
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2015
Iowa
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Not everyone moves all over the country. My father, my grandfather, my great grandfather, my great great grandfather, and my great great great grandfather are all buried within 25 miles of my place. I'm not moving anywhere. I worked in automotive for 20 years, four hours from Detroit. 1.2 million square feet and 1200 employees. That was just one business, not counting the thousands of our suppliers we had or the contractors we used. Not to mention all of our customers around the world we sold our car parts to. You are more than welcome to think that say our current approx. 7 million unemployed people statistic should have been increased by almost 50% say and that everything would have just been fine and worked itself out but like I said I disagree. We were a one income home, with two kids born in 03 and 08... yeah we could have found work like you are saying, somewhere, but those are the numbers you read about that skew the unemployment numbers. Working somewhere for half as much just to scrape by is still unemployment and doesn't make everything all peaches and cream. You already stated your thoughts on welfare and disability. Seems to me you'd let all the plants close and then start complaining about how we pay them unemployment. There is no way we should have allowed the big three American automakers to fail so foreign automakers could prosper. I'm not sure I understand your position but plenty of businesses have already left Ohio for you. The Midwest factories across the bread basket of America have been having plenty of closures and problems and were happy to see some help. How has your investments done since the big bailout in 08? Mine have done pretty good. Bailing the automakers out wasn't some terrible thing that wrecked our economy. I mean if the economy was super crappy now b/c of the bailout I could maybe see your argument but things seem pretty good right now so I'm not sure what all of this theoretical discussion is about. From 1990 to 2026, Ohio experienced a significant reduction in its manufacturing and corporate base, losing several Fortune 500 companies and iconic regional brands through acquisitions, bankruptcy, or relocation. Reason Foundation Below is a list of major companies that went out of business, were acquired (ceasing to operate as independent Ohio entities), or relocated their headquarters. Major Ohio Corporate Closures, Mergers, and Relocations (1990–2026) National City Corp. (Cleveland): Acquired by PNC Financial Services in 2008 following the financial crisis. NCR Corp. (Dayton): Relocated headquarters to Georgia in 2009 after over 100 years in Dayton. Big Bear Stores (Columbus): Iconic grocery chain that closed or sold all stores by 2004. Revco D.S. (Twinsburg): Drugstore chain acquired by CVS in 1997. Skybus Airlines (Columbus): Ceased operations in 2008. Standard Oil Company (Ohio/SOHIO): Completely integrated into BP, losing its Ohio identity. Factory Mutual: Left the region via mergers. Ohio Brass (Mansfield): Ceased production in 1990. Tappan Appliances (Mansfield): Bought by Electrolux in 1992 and plant closed. American Crayon (Sandusky): Closed/dissolved. General Motors (Moraine Assembly) (Dayton): Closed in 2008, affecting thousands of jobs. Delphi Automotive Systems (Dayton): Various plant closures during the 2000s. Rubbermaid (Wooster/Cortland): Acquired by Newell; Ohio operations significantly scaled back, including the 2015 Cortland closure. Federated Department Stores (Macy’s/Lazarus): While still existing as Macy's, the regional HQ and iconic Lazarus brand (Columbus) was absorbed into NYC operations. Roadway Express (Akron): Merged into YRC Worldwide in 2003. Retail Chains and Other Entities KB Toys: Originally headquartered in Massachusetts but had a massive presence in Ohio malls before going out of business. Big Lots (Columbus): Filed for bankruptcy in 2024, closing multiple Ohio stores. Express (Columbus): Filed for bankruptcy in 2024, with major store closures. Melt Bar and Grilled (Cleveland): Closed many locations during financial restructuring. First Brands Group (Tiffin/Bowling Green): Closed plants in 2026 after bankruptcy. Key Contextual Factors Dayton’s Decline: Dayton lost several major companies, including Standard Register and Mead Paper Company (merged/restructured). Cleveland Manufacturing: The region has seen a steady decline in factory jobs, with companies like Premier Manufacturing Corp. and Goodrich Corp. closing plants between 2010 and 2015. WARN Notices: Data indicates high-volume layoffs and closures continuing through 2025 and 2026 in manufacturing and services All of that sucks, but the government has no business propping business up or bailing them out. Period.
American Karens - not a fan
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8609020
05/07/26 05:50 PM
05/07/26 05:50 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
alberta
spjones
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2011
alberta
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The government caused the GFC by changing the rules on who could get a loan to buy a house
Then they bailed the banks out first, then everyone else including the auto industry
All the new money sloshing around is why everything is much more expensive today than it should be,,,
Also the main reason asset values have increased as much as they have
Same thing happened again with Covid,,,,
It’ll happen again,,,,
The only question is when?
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: spjones]
#8609061
05/07/26 07:10 PM
05/07/26 07:10 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Oakland, MS
yotetrapper30
OP
trapper
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OP
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Joined: May 2011
Oakland, MS
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The government caused the GFC by changing the rules on who could get a loan to buy a house
Then they bailed the banks out first, then everyone else including the auto industry
All the new money sloshing around is why everything is much more expensive today than it should be,,,
Also the main reason asset values have increased as much as they have
Same thing happened again with Covid,,,,
It’ll happen again,,,,
The only question is when?
x2. With interest rates near zero, QE, and massive federal stimulus, of course the economy has been booming since the GFC. But it's not natural... its a manipulated market. Check out the P/E ratios of TSLA, AMD, NRG, etc and tell me how sustainable that seems to you? Valuations are out of whack. The market will correct at some point..... unless of course the government decides to bail them all out........
Proud Leader of Moosetrot's Squad
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: OhioBoy]
#8609080
05/07/26 07:52 PM
05/07/26 07:52 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Oakland, MS
yotetrapper30
OP
trapper
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OP
trapper
Joined: May 2011
Oakland, MS
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Have you written a manifesto yet? Geez girl. Whats got you so riled up lately? I'm not riled up lol. I've been saying the same thing SINCE the GFC, lol. Well, I guess maybe I am a little riled up, because I would expect this stuff from the democrats, not the republicans. 
Proud Leader of Moosetrot's Squad
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: OhioBoy]
#8609120
05/07/26 09:20 PM
05/07/26 09:20 PM
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Joined: Feb 2015
Iowa
trapdog1
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2015
Iowa
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The democrats are so far gone im not sure that even means what it used to. Republicans ain't much better anymore either.
American Karens - not a fan
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: HobbieTrapper]
#8609135
05/07/26 09:45 PM
05/07/26 09:45 PM
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Joined: Dec 2024
AR
J Staton
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2024
AR
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Anybody who thinks the government hasn’t already had its hands in businesses for years has never operated one. Learned that at an early age. Annexation into the city changes lots of things. Dad's plans for a multi unit mobile home park were dashed by city ordinances requiring major investments into his own property for homes to be moved in. Priced him out of his plans. A few years later he sold the property to a Mexcan feller and now there are multiple units housing those fellers from the south with not a single requirement expected of my dad applied to those folks that came from south of Texas.
Last edited by J Staton; 05/07/26 09:46 PM.
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8609154
05/07/26 10:20 PM
05/07/26 10:20 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Armpit, ak
Dirt
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2010
Armpit, ak
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Have you written a manifesto yet? Geez girl. Whats got you so riled up lately? I'm not riled up lol. I've been saying the same thing SINCE the GFC, lol. Well, I guess maybe I am a little riled up, because I would expect this stuff from the democrats, not the republicans. Unfortunately, she is becoming a minority. Team free market capitalism. 
Who is John Galt?
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8609160
05/07/26 10:35 PM
05/07/26 10:35 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
ohio
Ohio Wolverine
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Joined: Apr 2007
ohio
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I remember when MA BELL wanted total control of telephones . A monopoly , the government stopped it, yet under a different control of government, that changed! More to think about than just one or two companies in todays world. The idea was to have competition , to keep prices down. Seems that's a lost cause anymore. Capitalism only works if it has controlling factors, as a limit as to how much control each has. Seems that a certain party felt they had more control over Spirit airlines than they really had. Yet because of certain factions, got away with it.
Just a side note , the Wall Street Journal isn't much different than CNN.
We have met the enemy and the enemy is us!
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8609253
05/08/26 07:25 AM
05/08/26 07:25 AM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Ohio, 48yo
OhioBoy
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2012
Ohio, 48yo
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I googled GFS and didn't know you were talking about the housing thing if you were. Here is the rest of my story if you are interested. In 02 I started my job and got married and had a kid and bought a house and started a family. I refinanced that house three maybe even four times. We didn't have a down payment for the first mortgage and had PMI insurance and I want to say it was at 8% interest rate, plus the PMI. It took a couple years of working in the factory and paying that down and fixing up the place but in a couple few years I refinanced and got rid of the PMI and also got a lower interest rate. Maybe say 6%. Rates kept going down and I eventually got 4 point something %. I lived there for 20 years and all the home values went up like you are saying. Especially in the area of a good school everyone wants to send their kid to. Sell in the fall and name your price kind of market. Fantastic for me, maybe not someone looking to buy, but I lived there 20 years, paid it off, and actually while I was layed off in 08 I ran up a credit card and finished the upstairs from studs for the kids bedrooms. So my home value went up, I also added two bedrooms and a bathroom, and I cashed in that investment after 20 years. I didn't plan to but in like 22 or so we went to look at a house. It didn't want to go look at a house but went to save an argument. Well we walked in and then I was like well dang now I got to buy a house. So I sold house #1 and its equity, used that as a down payment on a bigger place, financed that new place for 2.5% and with using all that equity for the down payment my house payment is the same as it was as the old place and was a new place with an upgrade. Now here we are 5 years later or so and its equity has also gone up and I'm locked in at the 2.5%. I've since learned that with inflation "saving" money in the bank looses money to inflation but assets increase in value during the same inflation. So if inflation is going to go up, like they are going to start printing money and inject it into the government/economy, like the value of dollar is going to go down or be worth less, then the value of assets (homes, stock market (sp500)) are going to go up... while your cash in savings is actually going to go down. So I don't know how you are supposed to save up for a house now b/c if you are just starting out and trying to save money, its just losing value while the houses get more expensive and you just cant ever catch up. Add in that black rock was buying up all the housing to air bnb everything out and things get messy real quick.
Don't forget that terrorists are trying to end the world (b/c that is when their god returns to earth, behold that guy riding the pale horse that brings death and destruction, Revelations 6:8, thats their god coming down from heaven.) and that they most likely infiltrated our government and is why the dems are acting the way they are. Crazy. God speed.
Hopefully that helps someone somehow. Good luck.
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: spjones]
#8609257
05/08/26 07:33 AM
05/08/26 07:33 AM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Armpit, ak
Dirt
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2010
Armpit, ak
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“ Capitalism only works if it has controlling factors” is false
“Controls” are the problem and bring cronyism,over regulation,barriers, etc
They create more problems and cause unintended consequences like what caused the GFC People do not trust the invisible hand of the free market as much as the government promises to make them the winner.
Who is John Galt?
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8609260
05/08/26 07:40 AM
05/08/26 07:40 AM
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Joined: Feb 2011
alberta
spjones
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2011
alberta
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OB, that’s why so many young people are now forced to live at home until there30’s,,,have 2 incomes,,, and no kids
It’s only going to get worse
To get ahead nowadays,,, you need to earn more than basic inflation + currency debasement on your savings
It’s still possible to get ahead,,,,
But most folks don’t understand what’s happening
IMHO you need to be earning a minimum 11% +\_ a couple %,,,,, just to break even on savings/investments
Anything less and your losing money
Last edited by spjones; 05/08/26 07:51 AM.
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: spjones]
#8609269
05/08/26 08:01 AM
05/08/26 08:01 AM
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Joined: Dec 2017
Kansas
Pawnee
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2017
Kansas
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The government caused the GFC by changing the rules on who could get a loan to buy a house
Then they bailed the banks out first, then everyone else including the auto industry
All the new money sloshing around is why everything is much more expensive today than it should be,,,
Also the main reason asset values have increased as much as they have
Same thing happened again with Covid,,,,
It’ll happen again,,,,
The only question is when?
Couldn’t have said it better! And the “crisis” in 08 was manufactured and made out to be 10 times worse than it was. “The great resection” good grief
Everything the left touches it destroys
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8609276
05/08/26 08:07 AM
05/08/26 08:07 AM
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Joined: Jan 2018
MN
Donnersurvivor
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2018
MN
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I graduated in 08, the crisis was real for me. Trying to find good jobs was tough. It's likely why I've maintained the scarcity mindset I grew up with.
Chief of staff @ Mensa Tree division/vison officer
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: Ohio Wolverine]
#8609320
05/08/26 10:01 AM
05/08/26 10:01 AM
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Joined: May 2010
alabama
BandB
trapper
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trapper
Joined: May 2010
alabama
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I remember when MA BELL wanted total control of telephones . A monopoly , the government stopped it, yet under a different control of government, that changed! More to think about than just one or two companies in todays world. The idea was to have competition , to keep prices down. Seems that's a lost cause anymore. Capitalism only works if it has controlling factors, as a limit as to how much control each has. Seems that a certain party felt they had more control over Spirit airlines than they really had. Yet because of certain factions, got away with it.
Just a side note , the Wall Street Journal isn't much different than CNN. If you think the breakup of the Bell system was about competition, you need to research a little more.
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: spjones]
#8609335
05/08/26 10:23 AM
05/08/26 10:23 AM
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Joined: May 2011
Oakland, MS
yotetrapper30
OP
trapper
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OP
trapper
Joined: May 2011
Oakland, MS
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“ Capitalism only works if it has controlling factors” is false
“Controls” are the problem and bring cronyism,over regulation,barriers, etc
They create more problems and cause unintended consequences like what caused the GFC I read that comment of his, started to reply, and then figured it's just not worth it. With so-called conservatives with the mindset of OW and OB, it's no wonder this country is in the shape it's in. SMH.
Proud Leader of Moosetrot's Squad
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8609341
05/08/26 10:52 AM
05/08/26 10:52 AM
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Joined: May 2011
Oakland, MS
yotetrapper30
OP
trapper
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OP
trapper
Joined: May 2011
Oakland, MS
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There's more to "the country" than the market. I also do not believe the market is anywhere near its intrinsic value... it's extremely inflated IMO due to... well several reasons but primarily excessive fiscal stimulation. But market aside, my comment was more in reference to the willingness of society to accept government intrusion in every aspect of their lives.
Proud Leader of Moosetrot's Squad
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: OhioBoy]
#8609416
05/08/26 01:52 PM
05/08/26 01:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2018
MN
Donnersurvivor
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2018
MN
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Stock market is all time high. Unemployment is an close to an all time low. You still seem to be wanting to talk theory when we have actual data and Im not sure I understand why. The market is not the only measure of a healthy economy. You have married 30 year Olds working full time jobs and they can't afford a house, they're putting off having kids, they worry about an accident or disease bankrupting them with medical debt but all they hear is "economy is great, look at the market!" Coming from a legion of boomers who grew up during the most prosperous economic time in world history
Chief of staff @ Mensa Tree division/vison officer
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: OhioBoy]
#8609418
05/08/26 02:03 PM
05/08/26 02:03 PM
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Joined: May 2019
Saskatchewan
rvsask
trapper
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trapper
Joined: May 2019
Saskatchewan
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Country in what shape? Stock market with all time highs? This is a terrible metric. In reality, the top 10% own over 90% of US stock, the top 1% own own 50% of mutual funds. An all time high stock market sounds great in theory until you actually consider how few people benefit from it. It is good for the ultra wealthy though and they are lucky to have so many regular folk thinking governments are working for them instead of the ultra wealthy.
Last edited by rvsask; 05/08/26 02:03 PM.
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8609428
05/08/26 02:45 PM
05/08/26 02:45 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
alberta
spjones
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2011
alberta
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Everyone and anyone can participate in the capital markets/capitalism,,,, nothing holding anyone back
Nothing has lifted more people out of poverty than capitalism/capital markets
Everyone has benefited from it
Full stop!!!
What OB is missing,,,,,,is GOVERNMENT DEBT
Government debt(bail outs, stimulus, etc) is at all time highs across much of the world
Eventually it will crash every thing down,,,,,
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8609474
05/08/26 05:45 PM
05/08/26 05:45 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Oakland, MS
yotetrapper30
OP
trapper
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OP
trapper
Joined: May 2011
Oakland, MS
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But.... but... but..... the stock market is at all time highs so bailouts must be good.........
There's gonna be a lot of people in a world of hurt when this house of cards comes tumbling down. Admittedly, probably myself as well, but at least I can see the risk and won't be blindsided when it comes.
Proud Leader of Moosetrot's Squad
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8609476
05/08/26 05:49 PM
05/08/26 05:49 PM
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Joined: Jan 2018
MN
Donnersurvivor
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2018
MN
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I agree spjones but I would add taxation to something holding people back but that goes hand in hand with debt. People have no idea how much they pay in taxes as most of them are "hidden", sales tax, payroll tax, property tax affecting their rent, etc
Chief of staff @ Mensa Tree division/vison officer
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: Donnersurvivor]
#8609477
05/08/26 05:50 PM
05/08/26 05:50 PM
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Joined: Nov 2012
midland, michigan
midlander
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Nov 2012
midland, michigan
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Stock market is all time high. Unemployment is an close to an all time low. You still seem to be wanting to talk theory when we have actual data and Im not sure I understand why. The market is not the only measure of a healthy economy. You have married 30 year Olds working full time jobs and they can't afford a house, they're putting off having kids, they worry about an accident or disease bankrupting them with medical debt but all they hear is "economy is great, look at the market!" Coming from a legion of boomers who grew up during the most prosperous economic time in world history Let me correct you...you have 30 year olds that buy $8 coffees on their way to work, get home and turn on their $150 a month cable TV, go out to eat 3 times a week, go to the movies or honkey tonk every weekend, drive $700+ a month brand new status symbol vehicles, pay someone else $80 to change there oil because they dont know how or are too lazy......the list goes on. Young folk cant afford housing because they are pee poor with their finances and cant decipher between wants and needs.... rant over
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: midlander]
#8609647
05/08/26 10:58 PM
05/08/26 10:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2018
MN
Donnersurvivor
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2018
MN
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Let me correct you...you have 30 year olds that buy $8 coffees on their way to work, get home and turn on their $150 a month cable TV, go out to eat 3 times a week, go to the movies or honkey tonk every weekend, drive $700+ a month brand new status symbol vehicles, pay someone else $80 to change there oil because they dont know how or are too lazy......the list goes on. Young folk cant afford housing because they are pee poor with their finances and cant decipher between wants and needs.... rant over
Do you really believe the only thing holding young people back from home ownership is $8 coffees and cable TV? Do you think the prospects for the average up and coming 20/30 year Olds are equal or better than the boomers had it?
Chief of staff @ Mensa Tree division/vison officer
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: Donnersurvivor]
#8609649
05/08/26 10:59 PM
05/08/26 10:59 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Oakland, MS
yotetrapper30
OP
trapper
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OP
trapper
Joined: May 2011
Oakland, MS
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Let me correct you...you have 30 year olds that buy $8 coffees on their way to work, get home and turn on their $150 a month cable TV, go out to eat 3 times a week, go to the movies or honkey tonk every weekend, drive $700+ a month brand new status symbol vehicles, pay someone else $80 to change there oil because they dont know how or are too lazy......the list goes on. Young folk cant afford housing because they are pee poor with their finances and cant decipher between wants and needs.... rant over
Do you really believe the only thing holding young people back from home ownership is $8 coffees and cable TV? Do you think the prospects for the average up and coming 20/30 year Olds are equal or better than the boomers had it? Honestly I believe they are better. Other than the housing thing right now...... but I think that will eventually improve some.... but not a lot. There is only so much land available......
Proud Leader of Moosetrot's Squad
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8609688
05/09/26 04:38 AM
05/09/26 04:38 AM
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Joined: Oct 2014
Wisconsin
8117 Steve R
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Oct 2014
Wisconsin
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That 8 dollar coffee is a symptom of poor money management. Do you really think that is their only wasteful spending practice?
Steve WTA NRA
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8609727
05/09/26 07:19 AM
05/09/26 07:19 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
williamsburg ks
danny clifton
"Grumpy Old Man"
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"Grumpy Old Man"
Joined: Dec 2006
williamsburg ks
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Houses are easier to buy today than when Carter was president. Much easier. People are being brainwashed into thinking that first home purchase is not possible.
Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8609737
05/09/26 07:35 AM
05/09/26 07:35 AM
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Joined: May 2010
MN
Steven 49er
trapper
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trapper
Joined: May 2010
MN
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“ Capitalism only works if it has controlling factors” is false
“Controls” are the problem and bring cronyism,over regulation,barriers, etc
They create more problems and cause unintended consequences like what caused the GFC I read that comment of his, started to reply, and then figured it's just not worth it. With so-called conservatives with the mindset of OW and OB, it's no wonder this country is in the shape it's in. SMH. Since when have conservatives been proponents of the free market? The uniparty is alive and well.
"Gold is money, everything else is just credit" JP Morgan
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8609739
05/09/26 07:40 AM
05/09/26 07:40 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
williamsburg ks
danny clifton
"Grumpy Old Man"
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"Grumpy Old Man"
Joined: Dec 2006
williamsburg ks
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gcs demand sets price. if kids are leaving its a good thing
Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8609760
05/09/26 08:13 AM
05/09/26 08:13 AM
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Joined: Jan 2018
MN
Donnersurvivor
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2018
MN
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![[Linked Image]](https://trapperman.com/forum/attachments/usergals/2026/05/full-51451-292740-g6yjvbi.png) It's not $8 coffees. Edit- graph may be hard to read but the red bar is price adjusted for inflation
Last edited by Donnersurvivor; 05/09/26 08:14 AM.
Chief of staff @ Mensa Tree division/vison officer
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: gcs]
#8609764
05/09/26 08:16 AM
05/09/26 08:16 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
SEPA
Lugnut
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
SEPA
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Depends where you are....starter homes here are 700 - 800g, nice 3 bedrooms are hovering just under a million, new larger homes 1 1/2 - 2 mill plus. it's insane and the reason locals are selling out and the kids have to move to a lower cost state....
it seems money has no value to some people...where they got their money is a mystery.... That’s the same thing I’m seeing here in Southeast Pennsylvania. Housing prices are insane. A buddy recently sold his house prior to moving to Florida. He bought it 20 years ago for $200,000. He sold it for $420,000. When he first listed it, I told him there’s no way you’re ever going to get that. It’s just a three bedroom ranch on a decent lot. Within a month it was sold.
Eh...wot?
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: Dirt]
#8609766
05/09/26 08:20 AM
05/09/26 08:20 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
SEPA
Lugnut
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
SEPA
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If you have free market capitalism you would be able to live in a creation of your own not subject to zoning and building codes. Most people could figure out how to build their shack. Lived in a place like this for 35 years. It is your neighbors/builders/government that would not tolerate this freedom. You are stuck in the housing industrial complex.  There is a lot of truth in this statement. Some years ago, special interest groups were lobbying lawmakers to require sprinkler systems to be installed in all new residential construction. It would’ve added an insane amount of cost to a typical new home. A bill was introduced, but luckily, it was defeated, but only narrowly.
Eh...wot?
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: spjones]
#8609771
05/09/26 08:34 AM
05/09/26 08:34 AM
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Joined: Dec 2024
AR
J Staton
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2024
AR
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If you can’t build a shed, addition, home on your own property with out government approval
You truly don’t own it
We have property taxes, we just rent our paid for land. lol
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: J Staton]
#8609779
05/09/26 08:49 AM
05/09/26 08:49 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
SEPA
Lugnut
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
SEPA
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If you can’t build a shed, addition, home on your own property with out government approval
You truly don’t own it
We have property taxes, we just rent our paid for land. lol X 2 And if you don’t pay your property taxes, at least here in Pennsylvania, they will forcibly remove you from your home and sell it to the highest bidder.
Eh...wot?
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: Donnersurvivor]
#8609869
05/09/26 11:49 AM
05/09/26 11:49 AM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Armpit, ak
Dirt
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2010
Armpit, ak
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![[Linked Image]](https://trapperman.com/forum/attachments/usergals/2026/05/full-51451-292740-g6yjvbi.png) It's not $8 coffees. Edit- graph may be hard to read but the red bar is price adjusted for inflation The evolution of the American house can be seen in every small town in America. The average square footage has more than doubled Lots are bigger and complexity of the structures and landscaping is absurd. The best part is families are smaller. People are not buying shelter, they are buying an investment. The winner is the guy who collects property taxes and sells the homeowners insurance .
Who is John Galt?
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8609889
05/09/26 12:48 PM
05/09/26 12:48 PM
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Joined: May 2010
MN
Steven 49er
trapper
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trapper
Joined: May 2010
MN
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Long term home ownership is a poor investment
"Gold is money, everything else is just credit" JP Morgan
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: Donnersurvivor]
#8609941
05/09/26 03:02 PM
05/09/26 03:02 PM
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Joined: Nov 2012
midland, michigan
midlander
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Nov 2012
midland, michigan
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Let me correct you...you have 30 year olds that buy $8 coffees on their way to work, get home and turn on their $150 a month cable TV, go out to eat 3 times a week, go to the movies or honkey tonk every weekend, drive $700+ a month brand new status symbol vehicles, pay someone else $80 to change there oil because they dont know how or are too lazy......the list goes on. Young folk cant afford housing because they are pee poor with their finances and cant decipher between wants and needs.... rant over
Do you really believe the only thing holding young people back from home ownership is $8 coffees and cable TV? Do you think the prospects for the average up and coming 20/30 year Olds are equal or better than the boomers had it? As I said, the list goes on...and yes I do. Young folks have terrible financial habits from what Ive seen. Ive known so many young couple that get married and immediately want everything that their parents have, too ignorant to understand it took their parents a lifetime to get where they are at. Savell gave perfect example of young kid going into debt for a toy...promise you that isnt the last toy he'll likely go in debt for. Do stupid things with your money and then whine about how tough it is to buy a house....decisions have consequences.
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: Steven 49er]
#8609951
05/09/26 03:42 PM
05/09/26 03:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2018
MN
Donnersurvivor
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2018
MN
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Long term home ownership is a poor investment Maybe if your strictly a numbers person with little emotion... my farm has been a terrible investment from a numbers standpoint, Great lifestyle though and good for raising kids that end up "normal". There's a peace that comes with owning a home, what's the price of peace?
Chief of staff @ Mensa Tree division/vison officer
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8609957
05/09/26 04:02 PM
05/09/26 04:02 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Armpit, ak
Dirt
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2010
Armpit, ak
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Governments run on emotion Their numbers are not so good either.
Who is John Galt?
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: Donnersurvivor]
#8609986
05/09/26 05:24 PM
05/09/26 05:24 PM
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Joined: May 2010
MN
Steven 49er
trapper
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trapper
Joined: May 2010
MN
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Long term home ownership is a poor investment Maybe if your strictly a numbers person with little emotion... my farm has been a terrible investment from a numbers standpoint, Great lifestyle though and good for raising kids that end up "normal". There's a peace that comes with owning a home, what's the price of peace? A person needs a home. The memories made from raising a family in a home is priceless. Homes are expensive to own, when people sell them they talk about the money they made. Most most forget about taxes, insurance and up keep.
"Gold is money, everything else is just credit" JP Morgan
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8609999
05/09/26 05:53 PM
05/09/26 05:53 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Rochester, MN
Teacher
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Nov 2010
Rochester, MN
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There’s much to be said both for and against this article. Against might consider the “too much government” that DOGE was created to get us out of. In the end, we laid off tax collectors. Then hired them back, to collect the government’s share of business taxes and loans.
Never too old to learn
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: Teacher]
#8610012
05/09/26 06:27 PM
05/09/26 06:27 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Oakland, MS
yotetrapper30
OP
trapper
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OP
trapper
Joined: May 2011
Oakland, MS
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There’s much to be said both for and against this article. Against might consider the “too much government” that DOGE was created to get us out of. In the end, we laid off tax collectors. Then hired them back, to collect the government’s share of business taxes and loans.
Where do you come up with this stuff? CNN? The IRS workforce was reduced by only about 5k people, which amounts to about 2% of the total reduction in government employees since Trump took office. Overall, since his inauguration, the federal civilian workforce has shrank by about 10%. Now, that's nowhere near as much as it needs to be shrunk, but not bad for a year and a half! If you're interested in more solid numbers (which I doubt you are since they won't fit your agenda), there were roughly 2.7 million government civil employees when Trump took office. Since then, 278,282 employees have either been let go, resigned, or took early retirement. Source. So which government departments saw the biggest losses? The one with the biggest decline was the Department of Education (which may be why you're so disgruntled that you're posting misinformation??), followed by USAID, and then the USDA. That's per capita, by the way, not total number of jobs gone. Most all agencies have decreased in size somewhat, though. Now as anyone who's paid attention to my posts can attest to, when Trump does something I disagree with (such as the topic of this post) I will call him out on it all day. But, I'll also give credit where it is due, and shrinking fed government bloat by 10% IMO is commendable for sure. I'll also call out people who post blatantly false "facts" without a single source to support their outlandish claims.
Proud Leader of Moosetrot's Squad
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8610017
05/09/26 06:33 PM
05/09/26 06:33 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
/AZ
Vinke
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
/AZ
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I'll also call out people who post blatantly false "facts" without a single source to support their outlandish claims.
Looks like the AI is working out well
Ant Man/ Marty 2028
Lefthandedrighteyedadddyslexic
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8610192
05/09/26 11:40 PM
05/09/26 11:40 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
ohio
Ohio Wolverine
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2007
ohio
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yotetrapper30 has a valid point, less government intrusion. Yet our government controls every facit of our lives. I'm not saying government should control anything but it's self. Insider trading along with backing donors to their campaign , has to stop. Along with they vote themselves raises , and control way too much. I was referring to deregulation. It used to be that companies could only work in certain areas that they held rights to. Much like a mining claim. Regan started deregulation , and Carter finished it. I was making over $12.00 an hour in the mid 1970's, deregulation meant companies could no longer own/operate in certain areas. In other words your mining claim was no longer valid. Trucking companies were everywhere, many serving the same cities and states. Then all of a sudden , they couldn't , jobs were lost companies closed, same with the steel mills. There has to be some control, but it's totally out of hand anymore. The idea was service industries were the future. LOL So yotetrapper30 is right , too much government control. I know we can't be political, but have to point out, we could be finally going in the right direction. It's going to hurt, same as anything new in our lives, but we can survive and take back our control of the government. The way it was meant to be in the first place. When our country was born, it relied on tariffs alone, no taxes on property, just taxes on whisky that was sold over seas. I could be wrong about that, it's all I remember without looking it up. And anymore you can't get an answer you can trust. But it was 1913 when our country stopped tariffs , and went to taxes on income. Then it was taxes on anything we bought, then it was taxes on anything we owned, and on and on. I just hope I see it turn around and taxes are no longer. Funny how roads were built and bridges were built before taxes, isn't it? People wanted them, and donated to get them built! That's a strong country, not one that's taxed to death. JMHO
We have met the enemy and the enemy is us!
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8610220
05/10/26 05:55 AM
05/10/26 05:55 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
williamsburg ks
danny clifton
"Grumpy Old Man"
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"Grumpy Old Man"
Joined: Dec 2006
williamsburg ks
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Corruption is the number one problem today with government. Its the same number one problem government has had since it was invented. No matter the government from tribal to monarchies to dictators to totalitarian to whatever form of government you can name. Some forms of government, like democratic republic make corruption harder to get away with. Since governments are run by us humans corruption will never disappear. No matter the religion or lack there of the individual ascribes to, some humans are more prone to corruption than others.
Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8610275
05/10/26 08:40 AM
05/10/26 08:40 AM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Armpit, ak
Dirt
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2010
Armpit, ak
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Year Average Square Footage Notable Features 1950 983 sq ft Single bathroom, shared bedrooms 1980 1,700 sq ft 2-3 bedrooms, 1.5-2 bathrooms 1993 2,000 sq ft Master suites, family rooms 2000 1,920-1,940 sq ft Open floor plans emerging 2015 2,467 sq ft Peak size – maximum square footage 2023 2,233 sq ft Declining from peak
Who is John Galt?
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8610306
05/10/26 09:59 AM
05/10/26 09:59 AM
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Joined: May 2011
Oakland, MS
yotetrapper30
OP
trapper
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OP
trapper
Joined: May 2011
Oakland, MS
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OH.... I'm pretty sure that prior to 1913 we did not have 143 million people receiving Medicare/Medicaid or 42 million people receiving food stamps. May be a wee bit difficult to pay for all that via tariffs alone.
Proud Leader of Moosetrot's Squad
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8610316
05/10/26 10:34 AM
05/10/26 10:34 AM
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Joined: May 2010
MN
Steven 49er
trapper
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trapper
Joined: May 2010
MN
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Prior to 1913 we didn't have a central bank and debt backed currency.
It's all related
Last edited by Steven 49er; 05/10/26 10:34 AM.
"Gold is money, everything else is just credit" JP Morgan
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8610329
05/10/26 11:09 AM
05/10/26 11:09 AM
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Joined: Feb 2015
Iowa
trapdog1
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2015
Iowa
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OH.... I'm pretty sure that prior to 1913 we did not have 143 million people receiving Medicare/Medicaid or 42 million people receiving food stamps. May be a wee bit difficult to pay for all that via tariffs alone. Not to mention billions in corporate and agriculture "support".
American Karens - not a fan
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: Steven 49er]
#8610705
05/11/26 08:02 AM
05/11/26 08:02 AM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Armpit, ak
Dirt
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2010
Armpit, ak
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Prior to 1913 we didn't have a central bank and debt backed currency.
It's all related sherman silver purchase actI believe the monetary system is irrelevant when people want to increase the money supply.
Who is John Galt?
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: bblwi]
#8610796
05/11/26 11:34 AM
05/11/26 11:34 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
Trapper7
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
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From 1879 to 1914, America experienced the most spectacular economic boom in human history. Real wages doubled. Industrial production exploded 4x. Population grew from 50 million to 100 million while living standards soared across every income level.
Showed also the value of establishing an immigration policy.
Bryce
True, but the immigrants then were different than the immigrants of today. My grandparent immigrants came to America believing if you worked hard, you could earn a decent living, and they wanted to assimilate as an American. They weren't given free medical, free housing, etc. All the free stuff we are seeing today. They weren't expecting and never received the handouts many of today's immigrants are receiving.
Got a photo from a speeding camera in the mail. I immediately sent it back - way too expensive and really poor quality.
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8611235
05/12/26 08:04 AM
05/12/26 08:04 AM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Armpit, ak
Dirt
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2010
Armpit, ak
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Current immigration policy will probably be counter productive. There has to be a better policy than super restrictive and super loose. America needs population growth in order to have workers who pay the bills in order to support all the true american retired baby boomers.
Who is John Galt?
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: Dirt]
#8611241
05/12/26 08:12 AM
05/12/26 08:12 AM
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Joined: Jan 2018
MN
Donnersurvivor
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2018
MN
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Current immigration policy will probably be counter productive. There has to be a better policy than super restrictive and super loose. America needs population growth in order to have workers who pay the bills in order to support all the true american retired baby boomers. If we keep inflation high the boomers will have to go back to work and we can keep immigration restricted.
Chief of staff @ Mensa Tree division/vison officer
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8611255
05/12/26 08:40 AM
05/12/26 08:40 AM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Armpit, ak
Dirt
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2010
Armpit, ak
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Boomers will get inflation adjusted ssa checks and their stock investments will continue to out perform inflation. Medical is heavily covered under medicare/medicaid/and VA. The U. S. pays for this primarily with payroll and income taxes and borrowing.
Who is John Galt?
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8611425
05/12/26 06:59 PM
05/12/26 06:59 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
james bay frontierOnt.
Boco
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Aug 2011
james bay frontierOnt.
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Walmart getting back 10.2 billion in stolen money from illegal tarriffs.Other companys lining up. Sounds like a genius,lol.
Last edited by Boco; 05/12/26 07:02 PM.
Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: Steven 49er]
#8611473
05/12/26 08:46 PM
05/12/26 08:46 PM
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Joined: Jun 2022
Manitoba
Shakeyjake
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jun 2022
Manitoba
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Long term home ownership is a poor investment Not sure about down there, but here it’s the best thing a guy can do if you can. It takes money to make money in that game. My grand kids will thank me for the my property investments. It’s one of the things that never depreciate around here. Crop, bush, swamp……don’t matter. If you can afford it buy it, even borrowing if you have to.
Wind Blew, crap flew, out came the line crew
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: Shakeyjake]
#8611487
05/12/26 09:20 PM
05/12/26 09:20 PM
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Joined: May 2010
MN
Steven 49er
trapper
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trapper
Joined: May 2010
MN
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Long term home ownership is a poor investment Not sure about down there, but here it’s the best thing a guy can do if you can. It takes money to make money in that game. My grand kids will thank me for the my property investments. It’s one of the things that never depreciate around here. Crop, bush, swamp……don’t matter. If you can afford it buy it, even borrowing if you have to. Are you talking about your home or property? There is a difference
"Gold is money, everything else is just credit" JP Morgan
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8611488
05/12/26 09:24 PM
05/12/26 09:24 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
james bay frontierOnt.
Boco
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Aug 2011
james bay frontierOnt.
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Its a govt scam.they just let you think you own it,but as soon as you quit paying your rent (property tax) you find out who really owns the property.
Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8611578
05/13/26 05:16 AM
05/13/26 05:16 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
williamsburg ks
danny clifton
"Grumpy Old Man"
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"Grumpy Old Man"
Joined: Dec 2006
williamsburg ks
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renting a home from the government is cheaper than renting from anyone else
Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: Boco]
#8611604
05/13/26 06:54 AM
05/13/26 06:54 AM
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Joined: Jun 2022
Manitoba
Shakeyjake
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jun 2022
Manitoba
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Are you talking about your home or property?
There is a difference I guess I should say properties with structures, some actual homes. Its a govt scam.they just let you think you own it,but as soon as you quit paying your rent (property tax) you find out who really owns the property. Very true. This RM had an auction about 1/2 year ago. The owners died and the beneficiary couldn’t afford the taxes……..friggin weird but there’s more to that story. Drug addictions suck a lot of money…..lol. Stopped at 90g for a beauty 1/4 with house and out buildings bordering a Provincial forest, sent for 150g IIRC. We haven’t figured out who the person was that got it, but they weren’t local and they were getting it no matter what the cost. Buddies quarter with hunting shack that he just bought, more than pays the taxes just renting it out to city folk for a few weeks a year for deer hunting. That one, he just called the owner and said if she’d ever sell, to call him 1st.
Wind Blew, crap flew, out came the line crew
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8611612
05/13/26 07:15 AM
05/13/26 07:15 AM
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Joined: Dec 2009
The Hill Country of Texas
Leftlane
"HOSS"
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"HOSS"
Joined: Dec 2009
The Hill Country of Texas
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I'm sure he knows I'm just havin fun. Some knot head infered that he and his boys could pile up sheds like they do without trespassing and he made it plainly known how little he thought of that comment.
What"s good for me may not be good for the weak minded. Captain Gus McCrae- Texas Rangers
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: Boco]
#8611628
05/13/26 07:53 AM
05/13/26 07:53 AM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Armpit, ak
Dirt
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2010
Armpit, ak
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Walmart getting back 10.2 billion in stolen money from illegal tarriffs.Other companys lining up. Sounds like a genius,lol. Could these tariffs be considered fraud, waste, and abuse?
Who is John Galt?
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8612006
05/14/26 12:33 AM
05/14/26 12:33 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
ohio
Ohio Wolverine
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2007
ohio
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One question. While our country was growing and becoming stronger and more powerful, on tariffs , did we go to income tax on our population? Why did the GREAT DEPRESSION happen? Why did we go off the gold and silver standards to back our money? When you can answer that , we might start to get along. Remember it all happened within 30 years.
We have met the enemy and the enemy is us!
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8612017
05/14/26 01:50 AM
05/14/26 01:50 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
ohio
Ohio Wolverine
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2007
ohio
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...... that one question is getting pretty close to several questions.........  Can you answer one? Any one question?
We have met the enemy and the enemy is us!
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8612018
05/14/26 01:53 AM
05/14/26 01:53 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
ohio
Ohio Wolverine
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2007
ohio
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It's all about the same thing. Can you answer any part of it?
We have met the enemy and the enemy is us!
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: Ohio Wolverine]
#8612020
05/14/26 02:12 AM
05/14/26 02:12 AM
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Joined: May 2011
Oakland, MS
yotetrapper30
OP
trapper
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OP
trapper
Joined: May 2011
Oakland, MS
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One question. While our country was growing and becoming stronger and more powerful, on tariffs , did we go to income tax on our population?
Sure. I can answer this one. Yes, we went to income tax instead of tariffs. Why? Because the liberals wanted to stick it to rich, the same as always. Wilson came into the White House like a “priestly visionary,” intent on expanding economic opportunity for people at the bottom of society and eliminating special privileges enjoyed by the nation’s richest and most powerful citizens. Wilson focused first on tariff reform, pushing through Congress the Underwood-Simmons Act, which achieved the most significant reductions in rates since the Civil War. He argued that high tariffs created monopolies and hurt consumers, and his lower tariffs were especially popular in the South and West. The act offset lost revenue by providing for a small, graduated income tax as authorized by the Sixteenth Amendment to the Constitution, which was adopted on February 25, 1913, before Wilson took office.
Next, Wilson tackled the currency problem and banking reform. Since the Civil War, Democrats and agrarians had wanted a more flexible money supply and system of banking that would allow adjustments in the amount of money and credit available in times of economic expansion or crisis. By the early twentieth century, bankers and businessmen had also begun to demand reform. After the Panic of 1907 (the third such in many American’s lifetime), a special congressional investigating committee, the Pujo Committee, demonstrated to the American public the extent to which a handful of banks and corporations controlled the nation's wealth. Reformers wanted a strong federal system that would regulate credit and oversee the nation's currency. https://millercenter.org/president/wilson/domestic-affairs
Proud Leader of Moosetrot's Squad
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: Ohio Wolverine]
#8612095
05/14/26 09:18 AM
05/14/26 09:18 AM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Armpit, ak
Dirt
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2010
Armpit, ak
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One question. While our country was growing and becoming stronger and more powerful, on tariffs , did we go to income tax on our population? Why did the GREAT DEPRESSION happen? Why did we go off the gold and silver standards to back our money? When you can answer that , we might start to get along. Remember it all happened within 30 years. So the answer to a more powerful and strong county is tariffs. When all countries do them, will they all be powerful and strong? Tariffs are just a tax that make it possible for domestic suppliers to charge consumers more. The U.S. became more powerful primarily due to the industrial revolution. The Federal government does so much more then it did in 1912 and the only way to go back to tariffs as the main source of revenue would be unacceptable to 99 percent of current voters.
Last edited by Dirt; 05/14/26 09:48 AM.
Who is John Galt?
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: Dirt]
#8617256
05/26/26 10:18 PM
05/26/26 10:18 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
ohio
Ohio Wolverine
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2007
ohio
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One question. While our country was growing and becoming stronger and more powerful, on tariffs , did we go to income tax on our population? Why did the GREAT DEPRESSION happen? Why did we go off the gold and silver standards to back our money? When you can answer that , we might start to get along. Remember it all happened within 30 years. So the answer to a more powerful and strong county is tariffs. When all countries do them, will they all be powerful and strong? Tariffs are just a tax that make it possible for domestic suppliers to charge consumers more. The U.S. became more powerful primarily due to the industrial revolution. The Federal government does so much more then it did in 1912 and the only way to go back to tariffs as the main source of revenue would be unacceptable to 99 percent of current voters. Do you really believe that? Fact is our products aren't sold to other countries like they used to be. Why do you think everything you buy is from China, Japan, Germany, and all the other countries in the world? Why are you getting scam calls all day long from other countries? When was the last time you've read MADE IN AMERICA on anything ?
We have met the enemy and the enemy is us!
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8617257
05/26/26 10:23 PM
05/26/26 10:23 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Oakland, MS
yotetrapper30
OP
trapper
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OP
trapper
Joined: May 2011
Oakland, MS
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So, OW, think about this for a minute. WHY are there less items that are produced here and exported? WHY do we import so many more?
What is the reason for it?
Proud Leader of Moosetrot's Squad
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8617259
05/26/26 10:40 PM
05/26/26 10:40 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
ohio
Ohio Wolverine
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2007
ohio
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You really have to ask? We all know why. The government found a way to make us all slaves to their will. When was the last time truth was spoken by our government? How many treaties were broken with the Indians? Granted most were caused by greedy interlopers , and caused most. But our government hasn't been honest to the people since they found a way to tax them to death. Blame it on the rich, all you want, but they had the money to build everything we have today. Never will say they aren't corrupt, but there was never a job offered by a poor man.
This last year and a half , have opened your eyes to a lot of waste and theft.
This has been going on for a long time, even before JFK was President. Built to control all of us. No more one income to support a family, it's against the law to discipline a child. Just stop and think about what's happened in the last 16 years.
We have met the enemy and the enemy is us!
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8617264
05/26/26 10:53 PM
05/26/26 10:53 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Oakland, MS
yotetrapper30
OP
trapper
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OP
trapper
Joined: May 2011
Oakland, MS
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Yes, I do have to ask, as I still don't think you are getting it.
You will NEVER hear me blame the rich or big business.... I agree with you on that point!
And I don't really much disagree with anything else you have said either. The government IS corrupt. The government has made most people slaves to the government. There are untold amounts of waste and theft in the government. All of that is true.
But I think you are missing the big picture. And the big picture is a big part of why tariffs will never work.
WHY is it hard to support a family on one income anymore?
WHY, with the exception of advanced products such as semiconductors, computer components, etc., do we not export the goods we used to export?
WHY do we import so much from countries like China or Vietnam?
(Hint: the government IS involved in the answer, but that is only part of it.)
Proud Leader of Moosetrot's Squad
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8617273
05/26/26 11:14 PM
05/26/26 11:14 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
ohio
Ohio Wolverine
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2007
ohio
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Yes, I do have to ask, as I still don't think you are getting it.
You will NEVER hear me blame the rich or big business.... I agree with you on that point!
And I don't really much disagree with anything else you have said either. The government IS corrupt. The government has made most people slaves to the government. There are untold amounts of waste and theft in the government. All of that is true.
But I think you are missing the big picture. And the big picture is a big part of why tariffs will never work.
WHY is it hard to support a family on one income anymore?
WHY, with the exception of advanced products such as semiconductors, computer components, etc., do we not export the goods we used to export?
WHY do we import so much from countries like China or Vietnam?
(Hint: the government IS involved in the answer, but that is only part of it.)
Because our government is corrupt! There's no reason we can't make everything we need right here. But the government gets kick backs if a company will send their products over seas to be made by third world countries. I remember when our government gave NIKE 20% off their taxed income, if they sent their shoes to Honduras to be made ! So now the government makes money off the $ 3-400 shoes that are made for $5.00. Remember sales tax?
We have met the enemy and the enemy is us!
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8617282
05/26/26 11:56 PM
05/26/26 11:56 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Oakland, MS
yotetrapper30
OP
trapper
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OP
trapper
Joined: May 2011
Oakland, MS
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I suppose you are referring to a trade deal that allowed U.S. companies to avoid paying import tariffs if they produced their product in a foreign country that was a member country of the agreement. It was a central American trade deal implemented by Bush 2.
But, that's not what caused companies to produce overseas. They already were. That just influenced WHAT foreign countries they were producing their goods in.
There is one reason U.S. companies produce so much overseas nowadays. Cost. That is the same reason U.S. retailers import so many items from overseas and why manufacturing of many items here has dried up.
But it's not government corruption that causes it to be more cost efficient for manufacturers to manufacture overseas, or for retailers to import from overseas.
There are 2 main contributing factors.
Ok, you want to blame government, here is your chance.
1) Government overregulation. Of course, the EPA is the big one. Clean air rules, clean water rules, greenhouse gas rules, hazmat rules, etc. etc. But let's not forget all the other government agencies that have put manufacturers in a stranglehold.
OSHA: PPE, training, record-keeping, etc. DOE: Efficiency, compliance, etc. DOL: Minimum wage, OT, etc. CPSC: Testing, labeling.
And I could keep going.....
None of these regulations are cheap to comply with, and that causes the cost of manufacturing here to skyrocket. You think China cares if some never-before-heard-of-snail is harmed by a little bit of runoff? You think Vietnam cares about the efficiency of the machinery ran in plants there?
2) Labor Unions
We all know that union workers get paid ridiculous wages, and as any good union fan man will gladly tell ya, unions drive up the wages for non-union jobs as well. Do you think Nike wants to pay JaMarkus $35 an hour to make a pair of tennis shoes, or would they rather pay Nguyen Mihn $2.50 and hour to make the same pair of shoes? Once you add in the overhead (including all the stuff mentioned in #1 above) you can be looking at a total cost of nearly $50 to make one pair of shoes in the U.S. that costs around $10 all told in Vietnam.
So... if it cost Nike, say $1bil to manufacture XX number of shoes in Vietnam... it would cost them closer to $5bil to do so here.
Starting to understand WHY so much stuff is imported here? The same is true of exports. Do you think Australia is gonna pay $50 to import a pair of shoes from the U.S., or $10 to do so from VN?
So, just slap a tariff bandaid on it, right? In the scenario above, which IS based on actual, real numbers... we would need to impose a 400% tariff on Vietnam to equal the playing field. So what does that mean for you, as a consumer? Well... as long as you are willing to pay 400% more for your next pair of shoes, then I guess you'd be all for it.
I, on the other hand, would prefer to let Charlie make the sneakers. Let our U.S. workers produce the goods and services that are valuable enough to be able to withstand the high costs of doing business here in the U.S. The vechiles, the semiconductors, the software...the services.... while importing cheap, throwaway junk from the cheap, throwaway countries.
Proud Leader of Moosetrot's Squad
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8617283
05/27/26 12:13 AM
05/27/26 12:13 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
ohio
Ohio Wolverine
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2007
ohio
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I suppose you are referring to a trade deal that allowed U.S. companies to avoid paying import tariffs if they produced their product in a foreign country that was a member country of the agreement. It was a central American trade deal implemented by Bush 2.
But, that's not what caused companies to produce overseas. They already were. That just influenced WHAT foreign countries they were producing their goods in.
There is one reason U.S. companies produce so much overseas nowadays. Cost. That is the same reason U.S. retailers import so many items from overseas and why manufacturing of many items here has dried up.
But it's not government corruption that causes it to be more cost efficient for manufacturers to manufacture overseas, or for retailers to import from overseas.
There are 2 main contributing factors.
Ok, you want to blame government, here is your chance.
1) Government overregulation. Of course, the EPA is the big one. Clean air rules, clean water rules, greenhouse gas rules, hazmat rules, etc. etc. But let's not forget all the other government agencies that have put manufacturers in a stranglehold.
OSHA: PPE, training, record-keeping, etc. DOE: Efficiency, compliance, etc. DOL: Minimum wage, OT, etc. CPSC: Testing, labeling.
And I could keep going.....
None of these regulations are cheap to comply with, and that causes the cost of manufacturing here to skyrocket. You think China cares if some never-before-heard-of-snail is harmed by a little bit of runoff? You think Vietnam cares about the efficiency of the machinery ran in plants there?
2) Labor Unions
We all know that union workers get paid ridiculous wages, and as any good union fan man will gladly tell ya, unions drive up the wages for non-union jobs as well. Do you think Nike wants to pay JaMarkus $35 an hour to make a pair of tennis shoes, or would they rather pay Nguyen Mihn $2.50 and hour to make the same pair of shoes? Once you add in the overhead (including all the stuff mentioned in #1 above) you can be looking at a total cost of nearly $50 to make one pair of shoes in the U.S. that costs around $10 all told in Vietnam.
So... if it cost Nike, say $1bil to manufacture XX number of shoes in Vietnam... it would cost them closer to $5bil to do so here.
Starting to understand WHY so much stuff is imported here? The same is true of exports. Do you think Australia is gonna pay $50 to import a pair of shoes from the U.S., or $10 to do so from VN?
So, just slap a tariff bandaid on it, right? In the scenario above, which IS based on actual, real numbers... we would need to impose a 400% tariff on Vietnam to equal the playing field. So what does that mean for you, as a consumer? Well... as long as you are willing to pay 400% more for your next pair of shoes, then I guess you'd be all for it.
I, on the other hand, would prefer to let Charlie make the sneakers. Let our U.S. workers produce the goods and services that are valuable enough to be able to withstand the high costs of doing business here in the U.S. The vechiles, the semiconductors, the software...the services.... while importing cheap, throwaway junk from the cheap, throwaway countries.
LOL It was way before Bush 1 LOL Then you do as you please. Just don't forget everything is throwaway junk anymore. I suppose you are referring to a trade deal that allowed U.S. companies to avoid paying import tariffs if they produced their product in a foreign country that was a member country of the agreement. It was a central American trade deal implemented by Bush 2.
But, that's not what caused companies to produce overseas. They already were. That just influenced WHAT foreign countries they were producing their goods in.
There is one reason U.S. companies produce so much overseas nowadays. Cost. That is the same reason U.S. retailers import so many items from overseas and why manufacturing of many items here has dried up.
But it's not government corruption that causes it to be more cost efficient for manufacturers to manufacture overseas, or for retailers to import from overseas.
There are 2 main contributing factors.
Ok, you want to blame government, here is your chance.
1) Government overregulation. Of course, the EPA is the big one. Clean air rules, clean water rules, greenhouse gas rules, hazmat rules, etc. etc. But let's not forget all the other government agencies that have put manufacturers in a stranglehold.
OSHA: PPE, training, record-keeping, etc. DOE: Efficiency, compliance, etc. DOL: Minimum wage, OT, etc. CPSC: Testing, labeling.
And I could keep going.....
None of these regulations are cheap to comply with, and that causes the cost of manufacturing here to skyrocket. You think China cares if some never-before-heard-of-snail is harmed by a little bit of runoff? You think Vietnam cares about the efficiency of the machinery ran in plants there?
2) Labor Unions
We all know that union workers get paid ridiculous wages, and as any good union fan man will gladly tell ya, unions drive up the wages for non-union jobs as well. Do you think Nike wants to pay JaMarkus $35 an hour to make a pair of tennis shoes, or would they rather pay Nguyen Mihn $2.50 and hour to make the same pair of shoes? Once you add in the overhead (including all the stuff mentioned in #1 above) you can be looking at a total cost of nearly $50 to make one pair of shoes in the U.S. that costs around $10 all told in Vietnam.
So... if it cost Nike, say $1bil to manufacture XX number of shoes in Vietnam... it would cost them closer to $5bil to do so here.
Starting to understand WHY so much stuff is imported here? The same is true of exports. Do you think Australia is gonna pay $50 to import a pair of shoes from the U.S., or $10 to do so from VN?
So, just slap a tariff bandaid on it, right? In the scenario above, which IS based on actual, real numbers... we would need to impose a 400% tariff on Vietnam to equal the playing field. So what does that mean for you, as a consumer? Well... as long as you are willing to pay 400% more for your next pair of shoes, then I guess you'd be all for it.
I, on the other hand, would prefer to let Charlie make the sneakers. Let our U.S. workers produce the goods and services that are valuable enough to be able to withstand the high costs of doing business here in the U.S. The vechiles, the semiconductors, the software...the services.... while importing cheap, throwaway junk from the cheap, throwaway countries.
You just answered your own question. Why is it cheaper to produce our products over seas? Time to stop the control . The government is going to get all they can, at the peoples expense !
We have met the enemy and the enemy is us!
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8617285
05/27/26 12:18 AM
05/27/26 12:18 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
40 years Alaska, now back to O...
alaska viking
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2007
40 years Alaska, now back to O...
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OW, you seem like you spent too much time listening to Jeff Beck as a child. The reason we buy so many things from other countries is simply because we have much more money and credit than they do. They work doing mostly what U.S. citizens that want to work consider menial. And other countries that have a much lower living standard than we do are quite willing to make things for pennies or nickels an hour. Even most Europeans that manufacture things we might buy can't afford what they sell to our "average" citizens. And while our liberal-left has managed to expand our welfare costs, (both fiscal and societal), most of Europe has become truly socialist, and the taxes prove it. Whether you like it or not, as has been pointed out, modern day tariffs are a tax on this country's citizenry. And just because Trump says the U.S. is/was getting rich on tariffs to the tune of 500-600 billion dollars, (of which only around 160-180 billion was true), why does the treasury have to refund that money to American businesses? Of course, J B would have another conspiracy handy for that, too.
Just doing what I want now.
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8617286
05/27/26 12:23 AM
05/27/26 12:23 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
ohio
Ohio Wolverine
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2007
ohio
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I know you don't like unions, and I totally agree with you. At the beginning they were a good thing. But corruption and greed took them over. Why do you really think JFK and RFK were killed? Who actually controls the unions? The drug traffic? Who really controls the major sports teams? How much money does the government get from them? Taxes on it all.
We have met the enemy and the enemy is us!
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: alaska viking]
#8617287
05/27/26 12:31 AM
05/27/26 12:31 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
ohio
Ohio Wolverine
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2007
ohio
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OW, you seem like you spent too much time listening to Jeff Beck as a child. The reason we buy so many things from other countries is simply because we have much more money and credit than they do. They work doing mostly what U.S. citizens that want to work consider menial. And other countries that have a much lower living standard than we do are quite willing to make things for pennies or nickels an hour. Even most Europeans that manufacture things we might buy can't afford what they sell to our "average" citizens. And while our liberal-left has managed to expand our welfare costs, (both fiscal and societal), most of Europe has become truly socialist, and the taxes prove it. Whether you like it or not, as has been pointed out, modern day tariffs are a tax on this country's citizenry. And just because Trump says the U.S. is/was getting rich on tariffs to the tune of 500-600 billion dollars, (of which only around 160-180 billion was true), why does the treasury have to refund that money to American businesses? Of course, J B would have another conspiracy handy for that, too. Please explain why it's so? If other countries can survive on a lower income, why can't our country? Don't forget our National debt is something like 39 trillion. It's not a tax on our country, it's a balance of trade. Why can Japan charge a high tariff on our products shipped to their country, and we can't charge them the same for their products? Same with all other countries? How many US made cars or trucks do you see in other countries? How many video games do you see in each and every home here?
We have met the enemy and the enemy is us!
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8617288
05/27/26 12:39 AM
05/27/26 12:39 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
ohio
Ohio Wolverine
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2007
ohio
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Regulations? who implemented them?
We have met the enemy and the enemy is us!
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: Boco]
#8617293
05/27/26 01:13 AM
05/27/26 01:13 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
ohio
Ohio Wolverine
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2007
ohio
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Tarriffs are a tax on the consumer. Same end result as a VAT or a GST,only a much sneakier way of doing it. In a way, true, just remember the other country is employing more people than yours. And the government still gets a cut.
We have met the enemy and the enemy is us!
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: Ohio Wolverine]
#8617295
05/27/26 01:36 AM
05/27/26 01:36 AM
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Joined: May 2011
Oakland, MS
yotetrapper30
OP
trapper
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OP
trapper
Joined: May 2011
Oakland, MS
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I know you don't like unions, and I totally agree with you. At the beginning they were a good thing. But corruption and greed took them over. Why do you really think JFK and RFK were killed? Who actually controls the unions? The drug traffic? Who really controls the major sports teams? How much money does the government get from them? Taxes on it all.
Oh gosh, stop before you get Savell in here asking questions like that LOL I can't do this anymore, OW, you're getting too goofy. "Please explain why it's so? If other countries can survive on a lower income, why can't our country?" Do you really want to live like the people in China and Vietnam live, just so we can have more jobs? Jobs that pay $5/hr? No thanks lol.
Proud Leader of Moosetrot's Squad
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8617296
05/27/26 01:59 AM
05/27/26 01:59 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
ohio
Ohio Wolverine
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2007
ohio
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I know you don't like unions, and I totally agree with you. At the beginning they were a good thing. But corruption and greed took them over. Why do you really think JFK and RFK were killed? Who actually controls the unions? The drug traffic? Who really controls the major sports teams? How much money does the government get from them? Taxes on it all.
Oh gosh, stop before you get Savell in here asking questions like that LOL I can't do this anymore, OW, you're getting too goofy. "Please explain why it's so? If other countries can survive on a lower income, why can't our country?" Do you really want to live like the people in China and Vietnam live, just so we can have more jobs? Jobs that pay $5/hr? No thanks lol. Over your head? Not the point, it's inflation that makes a difference. LOL if you can live good on 10 cents a day, in the old days, what got it to over $100 a day isn't enough? Who benefits ? The people collecting the taxes.
We have met the enemy and the enemy is us!
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8617297
05/27/26 02:07 AM
05/27/26 02:07 AM
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Joined: May 2011
Oakland, MS
yotetrapper30
OP
trapper
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OP
trapper
Joined: May 2011
Oakland, MS
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Nothing you wrote is over my head, lol.
Inflation is definitely a huge issue as well. But it's surely not the ONLY reason for a higher cost of living. But, that's kinda on to a whole different topic, and I'm tired. Goodnight.
Proud Leader of Moosetrot's Squad
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8617321
05/27/26 06:49 AM
05/27/26 06:49 AM
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Joined: Feb 2011
alberta
spjones
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2011
alberta
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Who benefits from inflation??? The people closest to the printer,,, It’s called the “Cantillon effect” ![[Linked Image]](https://trapperman.com/forum/attachments/usergals/2026/05/full-20026-293818-img_3256.jpeg)
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8617362
05/27/26 08:46 AM
05/27/26 08:46 AM
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Joined: Jun 2022
Manitoba
Shakeyjake
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jun 2022
Manitoba
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Are some still trying to figure out what a tariff is? How long has this been asked? ........since Trump got in. Actually, I shouldn't say "asked", some are talking like it's the best thing ever and are sticking it to the other countries.....lol. If you really love your country, then why don't you support it? And when I say "you" I'm not referring to anyone in particular........lol There's not too many things we can buy today without throwing China some $$.
Wind Blew, crap flew, out came the line crew
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8617363
05/27/26 08:46 AM
05/27/26 08:46 AM
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Joined: May 2011
Oakland, MS
yotetrapper30
OP
trapper
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OP
trapper
Joined: May 2011
Oakland, MS
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OB, I don't know if you're talking to OW or me (because neither of us match the description of what you said) but I'm not gonna bother replying to you if you didn't read what I already wrote that would likely answer yours questions.
Proud Leader of Moosetrot's Squad
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8617375
05/27/26 09:26 AM
05/27/26 09:26 AM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Ohio, 48yo
OhioBoy
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2012
Ohio, 48yo
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Sorry I think I dyslexiaed this backwards and read it the other way around and thought you were bashing tarriffs. Before my coffee I guess.
Sure. I can answer this one. Yes, we went to income tax instead of tariffs. Why? Because the liberals wanted to stick it to rich, the same as always.
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8617377
05/27/26 09:34 AM
05/27/26 09:34 AM
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Joined: May 2011
Oakland, MS
yotetrapper30
OP
trapper
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OP
trapper
Joined: May 2011
Oakland, MS
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No I am against tariffs for the most part (they have a place at times). I support free trade. I was not complaining about buying things from overseas. I was trying to explain to OW why so much manufacturing has moved overseas.
Proud Leader of Moosetrot's Squad
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8617430
05/27/26 12:09 PM
05/27/26 12:09 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
james bay frontierOnt.
Boco
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Aug 2011
james bay frontierOnt.
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It has been proven over and over again in other countries thet the 3 things you need to support an economic tiger are low corporate tax rates a highly educated work force and membership in a large trading block (free trade agreements). I think America is lacking badly in two of those three requirements.
Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8617454
05/27/26 01:24 PM
05/27/26 01:24 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
40 years Alaska, now back to O...
alaska viking
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2007
40 years Alaska, now back to O...
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OK, let's try this: Hop Sing, in a poor region of China lives in a second-hand tent, just as his parents and grandparents did before him. They had to grow their own rice and caught rats for their protein needs. Hop Sing, on the other hand, got a job at a cloth manufacturer, and was suddenly making 10 cents an hour. Eureka! He feels as if he struck gold and can now afford a slice of water buffalo every now and then. He can also afford a can of paraffin for his canvas tent, so no more leaks from his "roof". In his little world, he is indeed now living a cut above how his relative are living, and that is his World View. Then we have American Joe Blow, whose grandparents started out as sharecroppers. They had no electricity or running water but lived in a wooden house with a tin roof. They had all the potatoes and wheat they could ever use, an old tractor, a few hogs and a flock of chickens. By the time Joe was born, his parents had bought the farm from the original owner, borrowed money for a new tractor, had buyers for their potatoes and wheat, and branched out into cattle. Joe was born right into an operating, profitable farm! But Joe also had opportunity and decided that the USA was brimming with potential and he could actually become darn-near anything he wanted! He was fascinated with the fancy tractor his folks had but didn't want to be a farmer like his kin so instead went to a trade school and learned everything he could about tractors. Upon graduation he was offered several jobs, and after careful consideration decided to work as a mechanic for Deere. Joe Blow now supports a family with his $40.00 per hour job that includes a health care plan and a 401K. Hop Sing had no such opportunity. So, when someone starts complaining and wondering how folks in China, (or where-ever), can get along fine on a dollar a day, you might explain just how wrong they are.
Just doing what I want now.
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: spjones]
#8617465
05/27/26 02:13 PM
05/27/26 02:13 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
james bay frontierOnt.
Boco
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Aug 2011
james bay frontierOnt.
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How does any of that, explain what has happened to Canada in recent years??? ![[Linked Image]](https://trapperman.com/forum/attachments/usergals/2026/05/full-20026-293832-img_3284.jpeg) It doesn’t,,,,,, cuz it’s BS Definitely not BS,look at the singapore,hong kong and celtic tigers when they took off-all three requirements were there.I thought we were talking about why the USA imports everything and cant compete. But true Canada is lacking in comparison to the tiger markets,Too high a corporate tax ratemand now has to get on with geting into the EU trading block since the NAFTA has been scrapped. Ireland is doing it again with its highly educated workforce Ai industry and Member of the EU trading block.
Last edited by Boco; 05/27/26 02:26 PM.
Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8617545
05/27/26 05:44 PM
05/27/26 05:44 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
40 years Alaska, now back to O...
alaska viking
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2007
40 years Alaska, now back to O...
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The U.S. imports because it can. We are a very wealthy country, and I am not talking about the Government, and the debt it holds, (which is spread throughout the world financial systems). The U.S. citizens are wealthy beyond imagination to many others in the world. I am constantly amazed when I go to a grocery store, for instance. It is packed full of fresh fruits and vegetables, regardless of the season. Shoppers are able to examine the produce with the most critical eye looking for a blemish, whereas the majority of the world's population would freak out to see such a collection, in any condition. And the meat section is a wonder to behold. Every edible piece of a chicken, separated and packaged with matching others in almost any portion one could desire. And beef, the same thing, expertly cut and wrapped in the most sanitary conditions possible. Don't see what you are looking for? Just ask at the counter and whatever your heart desires for dinner will likely be produced! As for Canada, BOCO, you truly have many capable citizens that could help lead your country to prosperity, but your leadership has lacked vision, and rather than asking the population to stand up strong and build mighty things, it taxes those that work hard to death, including good corporations and re-distributes those monies to those that don't. That is, of course, the worst incentive for all.
Just doing what I want now.
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8617560
05/27/26 06:42 PM
05/27/26 06:42 PM
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Joined: May 2010
MN
Steven 49er
trapper
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trapper
Joined: May 2010
MN
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Fiat currency creates inflation and centralizes government and wealth
"Gold is money, everything else is just credit" JP Morgan
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8619222
05/31/26 06:48 PM
05/31/26 06:48 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
ohio
Ohio Wolverine
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2007
ohio
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AV, I'm really gonna need you to stop coming on here and posting so much sense. You're gonna confuse people even more.  SMH!
We have met the enemy and the enemy is us!
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8619224
05/31/26 06:50 PM
05/31/26 06:50 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
ohio
Ohio Wolverine
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2007
ohio
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Nothing you wrote is over my head, lol.
Inflation is definitely a huge issue as well. But it's surely not the ONLY reason for a higher cost of living. But, that's kinda on to a whole different topic, and I'm tired. Goodnight. SMH
We have met the enemy and the enemy is us!
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8619227
05/31/26 06:57 PM
05/31/26 06:57 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Oakland, MS
yotetrapper30
OP
trapper
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OP
trapper
Joined: May 2011
Oakland, MS
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I'm just worried OW is gonna hurt his neck with all that head shaking he's doing at me......
Proud Leader of Moosetrot's Squad
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8619232
05/31/26 07:04 PM
05/31/26 07:04 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Coldspring Texas
Savell
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Coldspring Texas
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… good point
… OW you might want to think about not shaking your head so much… could get whiplash or cte… something like that
Insert profound nonsense here
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8619234
05/31/26 07:06 PM
05/31/26 07:06 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
ohio
Ohio Wolverine
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2007
ohio
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I'm just worried OW is gonna hurt his neck with all that head shaking he's doing at me...... I need the exercise ! Just waiting for you to wake up.
We have met the enemy and the enemy is us!
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: Savell]
#8619235
05/31/26 07:08 PM
05/31/26 07:08 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
ohio
Ohio Wolverine
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2007
ohio
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… good point
… OW you might want to think about not shaking your head so much… could get whiplash or cte… something like that LOL You really worried about me? How sweet!
We have met the enemy and the enemy is us!
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: Savell]
#8619239
05/31/26 07:15 PM
05/31/26 07:15 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
ohio
Ohio Wolverine
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2007
ohio
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… you know I luv ya brother Time to go wish I could banter with you.
We have met the enemy and the enemy is us!
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: alaska viking]
#8623372
Yesterday at 10:41 PM
Yesterday at 10:41 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
ohio
Ohio Wolverine
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2007
ohio
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The U.S. imports because it can. We are a very wealthy country, and I am not talking about the Government, and the debt it holds, (which is spread throughout the world financial systems). The U.S. citizens are wealthy beyond imagination to many others in the world. I am constantly amazed when I go to a grocery store, for instance. It is packed full of fresh fruits and vegetables, regardless of the season. Shoppers are able to examine the produce with the most critical eye looking for a blemish, whereas the majority of the world's population would freak out to see such a collection, in any condition. And the meat section is a wonder to behold. Every edible piece of a chicken, separated and packaged with matching others in almost any portion one could desire. And beef, the same thing, expertly cut and wrapped in the most sanitary conditions possible. Don't see what you are looking for? Just ask at the counter and whatever your heart desires for dinner will likely be produced! As for Canada, BOCO, you truly have many capable citizens that could help lead your country to prosperity, but your leadership has lacked vision, and rather than asking the population to stand up strong and build mighty things, it taxes those that work hard to death, including good corporations and re-distributes those monies to those that don't. That is, of course, the worst incentive for all. Truth, well said. And that's the problem. Our younger generations have it too easy, just about everything has been handed to them. It's human nature to care for your young. But pay attention to nature, there's a limit to that caring period. Name one animal that cares for their offspring for the rest of their lives , except humans. When times are tough, man becomes stronger, when times are good, man becomes weaker. It's nature, and the cycle will repeat . That's why all the great empires of the past fell. When will we learn?
We have met the enemy and the enemy is us!
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: Ohio Wolverine]
#8623376
Yesterday at 10:52 PM
Yesterday at 10:52 PM
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Joined: Nov 2012
midland, michigan
midlander
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Nov 2012
midland, michigan
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The U.S. imports because it can. We are a very wealthy country, and I am not talking about the Government, and the debt it holds, (which is spread throughout the world financial systems). The U.S. citizens are wealthy beyond imagination to many others in the world. I am constantly amazed when I go to a grocery store, for instance. It is packed full of fresh fruits and vegetables, regardless of the season. Shoppers are able to examine the produce with the most critical eye looking for a blemish, whereas the majority of the world's population would freak out to see such a collection, in any condition. And the meat section is a wonder to behold. Every edible piece of a chicken, separated and packaged with matching others in almost any portion one could desire. And beef, the same thing, expertly cut and wrapped in the most sanitary conditions possible. Don't see what you are looking for? Just ask at the counter and whatever your heart desires for dinner will likely be produced! As for Canada, BOCO, you truly have many capable citizens that could help lead your country to prosperity, but your leadership has lacked vision, and rather than asking the population to stand up strong and build mighty things, it taxes those that work hard to death, including good corporations and re-distributes those monies to those that don't. That is, of course, the worst incentive for all. Truth, well said. And that's the problem. Our younger generations have it too easy, just about everything has been handed to them. It's human nature to care for your young. But pay attention to nature, there's a limit to that caring period. Name one animal that cares for their offspring for the rest of their lives , except humans. When times are tough, man becomes stronger, when times are good, man becomes weaker. It's nature, and the cycle will repeat . That's why all the great empires of the past fell. When will we learn? Orcas.... (you asked) 
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: midlander]
#8623390
Yesterday at 11:12 PM
Yesterday at 11:12 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
ohio
Ohio Wolverine
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2007
ohio
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LOL That's a pod , they all do for themselves while working for each other. You could of said lions , but it's still the same, they do what's best for the family, not just themselves. Coyotes , wolves, lot of animals form packs, but they all have a pecking order. They don't keep giving for nothing in return.
We have met the enemy and the enemy is us!
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: Ohio Wolverine]
#8623397
Yesterday at 11:21 PM
Yesterday at 11:21 PM
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Joined: Nov 2012
midland, michigan
midlander
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Nov 2012
midland, michigan
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LOL That's a pod , they all do for themselves while working for each other. You could of said lions , but it's still the same, they do what's best for the family, not just themselves. Coyotes , wolves, lot of animals form packs, but they all have a pecking order. They don't keep giving for nothing in return.
Very specifically, male orcas are the only mammal that stays with its mother its entire life...just a fun fact, not meaning to start a peeing match. Lol
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: Boco]
#8623410
Yesterday at 11:32 PM
Yesterday at 11:32 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
ohio
Ohio Wolverine
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2007
ohio
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Bees and ants-they all work for the queen. Drones , and worker that only live for a few weeks. I can kill an ant colony in a week, because they live they way they do. One application, and done. Same with yellow jackets or many insects . Do you know how they feel about their offspring? Or is it natural function ? Funny how certain people give human qualities to insects and animals. Then again we grieve at the death of others for awhile, then go on living the same as before. You really think elephants are as emotional as humans? Or just as functional . Much the same as we are?
We have met the enemy and the enemy is us!
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: midlander]
#8623413
Yesterday at 11:35 PM
Yesterday at 11:35 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
ohio
Ohio Wolverine
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2007
ohio
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LOL That's a pod , they all do for themselves while working for each other. You could of said lions , but it's still the same, they do what's best for the family, not just themselves. Coyotes , wolves, lot of animals form packs, but they all have a pecking order. They don't keep giving for nothing in return.
Very specifically, male orcas are the only mammal that stays with its mother its entire life...just a fun fact, not meaning to start a peeing match. Lol The point was, letting the offspring depend on them , instead of working with them for the good of the pod.
We have met the enemy and the enemy is us!
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8623416
Yesterday at 11:41 PM
Yesterday at 11:41 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Coldspring Texas
Savell
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Coldspring Texas
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…. I didn’t read all this … but ya’ll better not be trying to get OW to entertain a different point of view
… cause that ain’t happening lol
Insert profound nonsense here
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8623423
Yesterday at 11:52 PM
Yesterday at 11:52 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
james bay frontierOnt.
Boco
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Aug 2011
james bay frontierOnt.
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And you work for king trump-hows yer ballroom coming along,lol We back on topic now.
Last edited by Boco; Yesterday at 11:54 PM.
Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#8623425
Yesterday at 11:59 PM
Yesterday at 11:59 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
ohio
Ohio Wolverine
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2007
ohio
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Originally Posted by Boco Bees and ants-they all work for the queen.
Canadians prolly understand that better than we do down here.
What"s good for me may not be good for the weak minded. Captain Gus McCrae- Texas Rangers
And you work for king trump-hows yer ballroom coming along,lol
LOL What does the Ball Room have to do with this thread?
BOW TO THE QUEEN! We don't !
Sorry for your loss of the Queen but I don't think the replacement is sure of it's gender.
We have met the enemy and the enemy is us!
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Re: Trump Capitalism?
[Re: Savell]
#8623427
11 hours ago
11 hours ago
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Joined: Apr 2007
ohio
Ohio Wolverine
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2007
ohio
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…. I didn’t read all this … but ya’ll better not be trying to get OW to entertain a different point of view
… cause that ain’t happening lol LOL IF you don't have faith in something, you just wander in nowhere land.
We have met the enemy and the enemy is us!
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