No Profanity *** No Flaming *** No Advertising *** No Anti Trappers ***NO POLITICS
No Non-Target Catches *** No Links to Anti-trapping Sites *** No Avoiding Profanity Filter


Home~Trap Talk~ADC Forum~Trap Shed~Wilderness Trapping~International Trappers~Fur Handling

Auction Forum~Trapper Tips~Links~Gallery~Basic Sets~Convention Calendar~Chat~ Trap Collecting Forum ~ Live Chat

Trapper's Humor~Strictly Trapping~Fur Buyers Directory~Mugshots~Fur Sale Directory~Wildcrafting~The Pen and Quill

Trapper's Tales~Words From The Past~Legends~Archives~Kids Forum~Lure Formulators Forum~ Fermenter's Forum


~~~ Dobbins' Products Catalog ~~~


Minnesota Trapline Products
Please support our sponsor for the Trappers Talk Page - Minnesota Trapline Products


Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4
Trump Capitalism? #8608638
05/06/26 10:19 PM
05/06/26 10:19 PM
Joined: May 2011
Oakland, MS
yotetrapper30 Offline OP
trapper
yotetrapper30  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: May 2011
Oakland, MS
If you don't enjoy reading...... stop now.....this isn't the post for you.

For those that do like to read........ thoughts?


Originally Posted by The Wall Street Journal
How the Trump Administration Became an Activist Investor

by Maggie Severns, Gavin Bade, Josh Dawsey and Meridith McGraw



There is free-market capitalism and state capitalism. Now, there’s Trump capitalism.

In recent months, the president has extended his hand into American business in unorthodox and, to some corporate leaders, alarming ways—from progressive-style demands to cap credit-card rates to assertive deals grabbing government shares in private companies.

Some executives are so worried Trump will ask for a stake in their company that they have prepared for Oval Office meetings by rehearsing what they would say to fend off the president’s advances, lobbyists involved in the preparations said.

Others welcome Trump’s attention. United Airlines CEO Scott Kirby appealed to Trump with the idea of creating a “national champion” airline during meetings with Trump and top officials at the White House, people familiar with the discussions said.

United asked for regulatory permission merge with American Airlines, and top Trump aides discussed whether the U.S. should take a stake in what would be one of the biggest airlines in the world, according to people familiar with the meetings. Trump later said he didn’t support a merger, American Airlines was resistant and United abandoned its bid.

The administration talked with Spirit Airlines about providing a loan of up to $500 million in return for warrants that would have given the U.S. a significant stake in the low-cost carrier, The Wall Street Journal reported last month. When the company offered 80% in exchange for the government bailout, Trump suggested 90%, according to people familiar with the matter.

But Spirit bondholders didn’t want to subordinate their claims to the federal government, according to a person familiar with the matter. The government pulled out of negotiations, and Spirit shut down Saturday.

Administration officials are stoking the president’s instinct to shift more authority over private-sector industries to Trump and his team. The Trump administration has announced direct investment stakes in at least 10 companies, including a 10% equity stake in Intel and a “golden share” of U.S. Steel, which grants the government power to influence company decisions.

We’re seeing the government get more involved in different aspects of the economy, which is a pivot off the more traditional Republican approach of the last century,” said Kelly Ann Shaw, deputy assistant to the president for international economic affairs in Trump’s first term.

The Trump administration obtained significant shares of critical-minerals companies to counter China’s dominance in rare-earth minerals, which are crucial for industries and national defense contractors. Trump’s deputy chief of staff, James Blair, is interested in stakes from more companies, said a person familiar with the matter.

“You have China with 70% chokehold over the production of critical minerals and 90% over processing,” Shaw said. “If you just let the market do its thing, we’re not going to be able to diversify away from Chinese dominance.”

Yet Trump’s approach extends well beyond national-security concerns, which startles many large U.S. companies that fear an expansion of government power in their industries.

After the Trump administration took a stake in Intel, lobbyists said they talked with clients who sought meetings with the president and Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick and wanted to know what to say if Trump asked for a stake in their companies. The main question for executives: Would they be willing to give the administration something? If not, they wanted to know, What’s the best way to change the topic to friendlier matters without causing friction?

Decades of broken policymaking by Washington, D.C., hollowed out America’s industrial base and left Americans dependent on foreign imports for goods that are critical for our national and economic security,” White House spokesman Kush Desai said. “The Trump administration is accordingly rectifying America Last policies that have left our country behind while embracing the traditional free market policies that do work, from deregulation to tax cuts.”

In December, Trump met with The Wall Street Journal and said, “When people need something, I think we should take stakes in companies. Now, some people would say that doesn’t sound very American. Actually, I think it is very American.”

Lean left

White House officials say Trump’s approach to economic policy reflects longstanding voter frustration with big business. Some of his recent interventions were taken with an eye to the midterm elections, according to people familiar with his and his team’s thinking.

Trump’s political team in January flagged a speech by Democratic Sen. Elizabeth Warren that featured a comment about Trump’s campaign promise to cap credit-card interest rates. The president had again raised the idea. Warren said Trump was missing in action. “Why is she being critical of me?” Trump mused to an aide while watching the speech.

Soon after, Warren received a call from an unknown number and picked up. It was Trump.

The president told her the rates were too high, and she said they could work together to lower them. In an interview, Warren said she believed the traditional Republican free-market approach to economics was failing. “Donald Trump seems to be the number one Republican to figure that out,” she said.

Trump called for the interest-rate cap to begin in late January, a deadline that came and went without action from the administration.

Last summer, Trump’s economic team had brainstormed with home builders about getting more Americans to buy houses by cutting regulations to bring down costs, according to people at the meetings.

Then Republicans suffered losses in the November elections. Trump aides let home builders know that deregulation was dead, said people who were in the meetings or were briefed about them. Trump’s poll numbers on the economy were falling, and advisers wanted policies that spurred housing and could be easily understood by prospective home buyers, those people said.

In January, Trump announced policies that marked a turnabout, including a ban on institutional investors such as Blackstone from buying homes. The shift left lobbyists and trade groups unsure what to advise home builders anxious about any more Oval Office surprises. In March, the White House released an executive order on deregulating housing that didn’t touch many topics previously under discussion. Some in the industry refocused their hopes on Congress.

In a meeting with his cabinet in January, Trump echoed Democrats’ complaints about affordability, blaming health insurers for rising healthcare costs. He said he wanted to lower prices and hold “big insurance companies accountable.” His new healthcare framework calls for low-cost insurance alternatives and for striking pricing agreements with pharmaceutical companies.

“We pay the money, billions and billions, really trillions of dollars going to insurance companies,” Trump said. “We want that money to go to the people.” Details of the proposed pharmaceutical agreements haven’t been disclosed.

A White House official said the administration continues to work with Congress to pass a healthcare plan.

“This is a much different Republican Party and a much different leader than I think we’ve seen in the last 50 years,” said Suzanne Clark, president of the Chamber of Commerce, which represents many of the largest U.S. corporations and for decades has advocated for a smaller government role in the economy.

‘Horrible, horrible’


Western countries have oscillated for centuries between robust state interventionism, most pointedly President Franklin D. Roosevelt’s New Deal-era of the 1930s, and a more hands-off laissez-faire economic view that rose to prominence around the mid-1970s.

Many industrialized nations, particularly in Western Europe, have retained a larger role for the government in the economy, including partial or full state ownership of significant companies and sectors such as healthcare. China grew to an economic superpower in recent decades by fully embracing a robust state role in a capitalist economy.

During former President Joe Biden’s administration, some advisers said the government needed to abandon 1990s-era globalism in favor of industrial policies to revive U.S. manufacturing. The advisers felt the U.S. needed to rely less on overseas supply chains, especially for goods central to national security.

That push resulted in 2022 legislation that put billions of dollars into boosting domestic semiconductor manufacturing. The CHIPS and Science Act was passed to reduce U.S. reliance on foreign supply chains. Trump labeled it a “horrible, horrible” corporate giveaway last year, and his administration has in some cases used CHIPS Act money to negotiate equity investments in companies picked by his administration.

The Biden administration also considered launching a U.S. sovereign-wealth fund, Biden national security adviser Jake Sullivan and others said in interviews. They hoped to create a government-funded investment vehicle to take stakes in companies seen as valuable for national security but which needed help developing.

The idea never got off the ground, partly because administration supporters ran out of time, former officials said. It would have likely required both legal scaffolding and money appropriated by Congress. Trump proposed creating a sovereign-wealth fund on the campaign trail around that same time, but little has come of it.

To Trump allies, the Biden administration opened the door to the government’s stepped-up role in the economy and reflected bipartisan support for moving further from a laissez-faire approach.

“We’ve crossed a Rubicon as a country in terms of getting more comfortable with the government playing a slightly heavier role,” said Shaw, Trump’s first-term economic adviser. “But overall, the U.S. economy is still undoubtedly a capitalist democracy, and so what we’re talking about is fiddling around the edges instead of wholesale transformations of our economy.”

To critics, the president has embraced a form of state capitalism that expands the authority of the executive branch, recalibrating America’s traditional balance of powers. Democrats say the president has intervened in the media and entertainment sector, including on behalf of Paramount Skydance, owned by David Ellison, whose father, Larry Ellison, is a longtime Trump supporter.

The president’s policies appear to have “a side effect of concentrating power either in the hands of Trump himself or in the executive in general,” said Ilias Alami, an assistant professor of political economy at the University of Cambridge who has written a textbook on state capitalism.

Trump last August called for the resignation of Lip-Bu Tan, chief executive of chip maker Intel, after news reports on Tan’s history of doing business in China. His team had no idea that Trump wanted a share of the company as they orchestrated a meeting, a person with direct knowledge of the discussions said.

Four days later, Tan met with Trump at the White House, and 11 days later, the Commerce Department announced it would take a 10% stake in the company for $8.9 billion.

“He walked in wanting to keep his job, and he ended up giving us $10 billion for the United States,” Trump said at a news conference last August. Last week, the president said the U.S. investment in Intel had generated $30 billion in gains over the past 90 days.

The U.S. corporate stakes are held by various agencies including the Pentagon and the Commerce Department. The Trump administration hasn’t said what, exactly, the government might do with profits or dividends from the companies it has taken stakes in.

Sullivan, Biden’s former adviser, said he worried that the administration’s investment in companies might warp markets and reward cronies. He also acknowledged that some of Trump’s efforts reflect a new, bipartisan consensus on using industrial policy as a tool to enhance national security—even at the expense of free-market economics.

“We are on a new path,” Sullivan said. “The U.S. government has to bring tools to the table that solve vulnerabilities for the U.S. that the market doesn’t solve.”



Gotta find a way, a better way, I'd better wait

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not after you
Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: yotetrapper30] #8608678
05/06/26 11:40 PM
05/06/26 11:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Marion Kansas
Y
Yes sir Offline
trapper
Yes sir  Offline
trapper
Y

Joined: Jan 2017
Marion Kansas
What happens when dems get control of the Federal government and have this much control/influence in so called private business. My thought is its a move to even bigger Federal government which just leads to more corruption and that corruption will be even worse in business than it already is. Government involved in business never works out well for the middle class and lower class people. The government is historically inefficient at everything it does. Honestly it looks like a step towards socialism to me.

Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: yotetrapper30] #8608721
05/07/26 06:17 AM
05/07/26 06:17 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper Offline
"Chippendale Trapper"
HobbieTrapper  Offline
"Chippendale Trapper"

Joined: Dec 2008
Eastern Shore of Maryland
Anybody who thinks the government hasn’t already had its hands in businesses for years has never operated one.


-Goofy
Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: yotetrapper30] #8608747
05/07/26 07:05 AM
05/07/26 07:05 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Wisconsin
8117 Steve R Offline
trapper
8117 Steve R  Offline
trapper

Joined: Oct 2014
Wisconsin
I don't like the govt picking corporate winners and losers. D or R.


Steve
WTA
NRA
Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: yotetrapper30] #8608757
05/07/26 07:26 AM
05/07/26 07:26 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Armpit, ak
D
Dirt Offline
trapper
Dirt  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Dec 2010
Armpit, ak
I just hope he picks Orren Boyle over Reardon metal.

Last edited by Dirt; 05/07/26 07:30 AM.

Who is John Galt?
Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: Dirt] #8608760
05/07/26 07:31 AM
05/07/26 07:31 AM
Joined: Jan 2018
MN
D
Donnersurvivor Offline
trapper
Donnersurvivor  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Jan 2018
MN
Originally Posted by Dirt
I just hope he picks Orren Boyle over Reardon metal.


You must be a person who enjoys reading. That was one was a test of endurance for me


Chief of staff @ Mensa Tree division/vison officer
Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: 8117 Steve R] #8608789
05/07/26 08:16 AM
05/07/26 08:16 AM
Joined: Feb 2020
Indiana
P
Providence Farm Offline
trapper
Providence Farm  Offline
trapper
P

Joined: Feb 2020
Indiana
Originally Posted by Yes sir
What happens when dems get control of the Federal government and have this much control/influence in so called private business. My thought is its a move to even bigger Federal government which just leads to more corruption and that corruption will be even worse in business than it already is. Government involved in business never works out well for the middle class and lower class people. The government is historically inefficient at everything it does. Honestly it looks like a step towards socialism to me.


Very well said.
Originally Posted by 8117 Steve R
I don't like the govt picking corporate winners and losers. D or R.

They have been doing this for decades with regulations. That often lock out the little guy due to added cost. We have not had true free market capitalism in the country for many decades.

Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: 8117 Steve R] #8608795
05/07/26 08:32 AM
05/07/26 08:32 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
SD
Boone Liane Offline
trapper
Boone Liane  Offline
trapper

Joined: Mar 2010
SD
Originally Posted by 8117 Steve R
I don't like the govt picking corporate winners and losers. D or R.


The most recent being Spirit Airlines.

Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: yotetrapper30] #8608815
05/07/26 09:11 AM
05/07/26 09:11 AM
Joined: Jan 2012
Ohio, 48yo
OhioBoy Offline
trapper
OhioBoy  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2012
Ohio, 48yo
I don't think its as black and white as all bailouts are good or all bailouts are bad. Is the article really just talking about bailouts though (Spirit) or is it also talking about investing in American Business (Intel). The two aren't the same thing and it seems that the article trying to tie to two together which compounds the confusion. Granted I may be ok with investing in companies but they shouldn't be influenced in business, which would be hard to keep separate, which must be the sticking point. Doing case by case situation all bailouts can't be 100% bad and it just wasn't the right time for Spirit to get one apparently.

Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: yotetrapper30] #8608829
05/07/26 09:51 AM
05/07/26 09:51 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
McGrath, AK
W
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
white17  Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
W

Joined: Mar 2007
McGrath, AK
Congress needs to put a stop to this nonsense IMO.

Can you imagine what the next Obama would do with precedents like this ? Solyndra anyone ???????????


Mean As Nails
Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: yotetrapper30] #8608925
05/07/26 01:08 PM
05/07/26 01:08 PM
Joined: May 2010
MN
S
Steven 49er Offline
trapper
Steven 49er  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: May 2010
MN
All bailouts are bad.

Let the market set price discovery


"Gold is money, everything else is just credit" JP Morgan
Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: yotetrapper30] #8608929
05/07/26 01:18 PM
05/07/26 01:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Ohio, 48yo
OhioBoy Offline
trapper
OhioBoy  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2012
Ohio, 48yo
I disagree.

"Had the government not bailed out General Motors, projections suggested that nearly 1.9 million to 3 million U.S. jobs could have been lost in 2009–2010. This figure includes GM employees, suppliers, and dealership staff, as analysts predicted the liquidation of the automaker would have caused a devastating chain reaction throughout the auto industry"

Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: OhioBoy] #8608940
05/07/26 01:42 PM
05/07/26 01:42 PM
Joined: May 2011
Oakland, MS
yotetrapper30 Offline OP
trapper
yotetrapper30  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: May 2011
Oakland, MS
Originally Posted by OhioBoy
I disagree.

"Had the government not bailed out General Motors, projections suggested that nearly 1.9 million to 3 million U.S. jobs could have been lost in 2009–2010. This figure includes GM employees, suppliers, and dealership staff, as analysts predicted the liquidation of the automaker would have caused a devastating chain reaction throughout the auto industry"


So? Do you think those people would have sat around and waited to die? They would have found work elsewhere. Even if that required moving south to work at an auto manufacturer that wasn't being held in a stranglehold by unions. GM should have absolutely been allowed to fail. If they had, it would have forced other automakers (and maybe even unions) to reevaluate how they were operating. By bailing them out, what lesson did that teach? That being fiscally irresponsible is an acceptable risk when you know that Uncle Sam will save you if your poor decisions catch up to you.

Steven is 100% correct. All bailouts are bad. Always. No exceptions.


Gotta find a way, a better way, I'd better wait

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not after you
Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: yotetrapper30] #8608953
05/07/26 02:29 PM
05/07/26 02:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Ohio, 48yo
OhioBoy Offline
trapper
OhioBoy  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2012
Ohio, 48yo
Not everyone moves all over the country. My father, my grandfather, my great grandfather, my great great grandfather, and my great great great grandfather are all buried within 25 miles of my place. I'm not moving anywhere. I worked in automotive for 20 years, four hours from Detroit. 1.2 million square feet and 1200 employees. That was just one business, not counting the thousands of our suppliers we had or the contractors we used. Not to mention all of our customers around the world we sold our car parts to.

You are more than welcome to think that say our current approx. 7 million unemployed people statistic should have been increased by almost 50% say and that everything would have just been fine and worked itself out but like I said I disagree.

We were a one income home, with two kids born in 03 and 08... yeah we could have found work like you are saying, somewhere, but those are the numbers you read about that skew the unemployment numbers. Working somewhere for half as much just to scrape by is still unemployment and doesn't make everything all peaches and cream.

You already stated your thoughts on welfare and disability. Seems to me you'd let all the plants close and then start complaining about how we pay them unemployment. There is no way we should have allowed the big three American automakers to fail so foreign automakers could prosper. I'm not sure I understand your position but plenty of businesses have already left Ohio for you.

The Midwest factories across the bread basket of America have been having plenty of closures and problems and were happy to see some help. How has your investments done since the big bailout in 08? Mine have done pretty good. Bailing the automakers out wasn't some terrible thing that wrecked our economy. I mean if the economy was super crappy now b/c of the bailout I could maybe see your argument but things seem pretty good right now so I'm not sure what all of this theoretical discussion is about.

[Linked Image]

From 1990 to 2026, Ohio experienced a significant reduction in its manufacturing and corporate base, losing several Fortune 500 companies and iconic regional brands through acquisitions, bankruptcy, or relocation.

Reason Foundation
Below is a list of major companies that went out of business, were acquired (ceasing to operate as independent Ohio entities), or relocated their headquarters.
Major Ohio Corporate Closures, Mergers, and Relocations (1990–2026)
National City Corp. (Cleveland): Acquired by PNC Financial Services in 2008 following the financial crisis.
NCR Corp. (Dayton): Relocated headquarters to Georgia in 2009 after over 100 years in Dayton.
Big Bear Stores (Columbus): Iconic grocery chain that closed or sold all stores by 2004.
Revco D.S. (Twinsburg): Drugstore chain acquired by CVS in 1997.
Skybus Airlines (Columbus): Ceased operations in 2008.
Standard Oil Company (Ohio/SOHIO): Completely integrated into BP, losing its Ohio identity.
Factory Mutual: Left the region via mergers.
Ohio Brass (Mansfield): Ceased production in 1990.
Tappan Appliances (Mansfield): Bought by Electrolux in 1992 and plant closed.
American Crayon (Sandusky): Closed/dissolved.
General Motors (Moraine Assembly) (Dayton): Closed in 2008, affecting thousands of jobs.
Delphi Automotive Systems (Dayton): Various plant closures during the 2000s.
Rubbermaid (Wooster/Cortland): Acquired by Newell; Ohio operations significantly scaled back, including the 2015 Cortland closure.
Federated Department Stores (Macy’s/Lazarus): While still existing as Macy's, the regional HQ and iconic Lazarus brand (Columbus) was absorbed into NYC operations.
Roadway Express (Akron): Merged into YRC Worldwide in 2003.

Retail Chains and Other Entities
KB Toys: Originally headquartered in Massachusetts but had a massive presence in Ohio malls before going out of business.
Big Lots (Columbus): Filed for bankruptcy in 2024, closing multiple Ohio stores.
Express (Columbus): Filed for bankruptcy in 2024, with major store closures.
Melt Bar and Grilled (Cleveland): Closed many locations during financial restructuring.
First Brands Group (Tiffin/Bowling Green): Closed plants in 2026 after bankruptcy.

Key Contextual Factors
Dayton’s Decline: Dayton lost several major companies, including Standard Register and Mead Paper Company (merged/restructured).
Cleveland Manufacturing: The region has seen a steady decline in factory jobs, with companies like Premier Manufacturing Corp. and Goodrich Corp. closing plants between 2010 and 2015.
WARN Notices: Data indicates high-volume layoffs and closures continuing through 2025 and 2026 in manufacturing and services

Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: yotetrapper30] #8608983
05/07/26 03:50 PM
05/07/26 03:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Ohio, 48yo
OhioBoy Offline
trapper
OhioBoy  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2012
Ohio, 48yo
They didn't mention Emery or DHL, Im certain that the closed companies are way more than shown.

Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: OhioBoy] #8609009
05/07/26 05:30 PM
05/07/26 05:30 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Iowa
T
trapdog1 Offline
trapper
trapdog1  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Feb 2015
Iowa
Originally Posted by OhioBoy
Not everyone moves all over the country. My father, my grandfather, my great grandfather, my great great grandfather, and my great great great grandfather are all buried within 25 miles of my place. I'm not moving anywhere. I worked in automotive for 20 years, four hours from Detroit. 1.2 million square feet and 1200 employees. That was just one business, not counting the thousands of our suppliers we had or the contractors we used. Not to mention all of our customers around the world we sold our car parts to.

You are more than welcome to think that say our current approx. 7 million unemployed people statistic should have been increased by almost 50% say and that everything would have just been fine and worked itself out but like I said I disagree.

We were a one income home, with two kids born in 03 and 08... yeah we could have found work like you are saying, somewhere, but those are the numbers you read about that skew the unemployment numbers. Working somewhere for half as much just to scrape by is still unemployment and doesn't make everything all peaches and cream.

You already stated your thoughts on welfare and disability. Seems to me you'd let all the plants close and then start complaining about how we pay them unemployment. There is no way we should have allowed the big three American automakers to fail so foreign automakers could prosper. I'm not sure I understand your position but plenty of businesses have already left Ohio for you.

The Midwest factories across the bread basket of America have been having plenty of closures and problems and were happy to see some help. How has your investments done since the big bailout in 08? Mine have done pretty good. Bailing the automakers out wasn't some terrible thing that wrecked our economy. I mean if the economy was super crappy now b/c of the bailout I could maybe see your argument but things seem pretty good right now so I'm not sure what all of this theoretical discussion is about.

[Linked Image]

From 1990 to 2026, Ohio experienced a significant reduction in its manufacturing and corporate base, losing several Fortune 500 companies and iconic regional brands through acquisitions, bankruptcy, or relocation.

Reason Foundation
Below is a list of major companies that went out of business, were acquired (ceasing to operate as independent Ohio entities), or relocated their headquarters.
Major Ohio Corporate Closures, Mergers, and Relocations (1990–2026)
National City Corp. (Cleveland): Acquired by PNC Financial Services in 2008 following the financial crisis.
NCR Corp. (Dayton): Relocated headquarters to Georgia in 2009 after over 100 years in Dayton.
Big Bear Stores (Columbus): Iconic grocery chain that closed or sold all stores by 2004.
Revco D.S. (Twinsburg): Drugstore chain acquired by CVS in 1997.
Skybus Airlines (Columbus): Ceased operations in 2008.
Standard Oil Company (Ohio/SOHIO): Completely integrated into BP, losing its Ohio identity.
Factory Mutual: Left the region via mergers.
Ohio Brass (Mansfield): Ceased production in 1990.
Tappan Appliances (Mansfield): Bought by Electrolux in 1992 and plant closed.
American Crayon (Sandusky): Closed/dissolved.
General Motors (Moraine Assembly) (Dayton): Closed in 2008, affecting thousands of jobs.
Delphi Automotive Systems (Dayton): Various plant closures during the 2000s.
Rubbermaid (Wooster/Cortland): Acquired by Newell; Ohio operations significantly scaled back, including the 2015 Cortland closure.
Federated Department Stores (Macy’s/Lazarus): While still existing as Macy's, the regional HQ and iconic Lazarus brand (Columbus) was absorbed into NYC operations.
Roadway Express (Akron): Merged into YRC Worldwide in 2003.

Retail Chains and Other Entities
KB Toys: Originally headquartered in Massachusetts but had a massive presence in Ohio malls before going out of business.
Big Lots (Columbus): Filed for bankruptcy in 2024, closing multiple Ohio stores.
Express (Columbus): Filed for bankruptcy in 2024, with major store closures.
Melt Bar and Grilled (Cleveland): Closed many locations during financial restructuring.
First Brands Group (Tiffin/Bowling Green): Closed plants in 2026 after bankruptcy.

Key Contextual Factors
Dayton’s Decline: Dayton lost several major companies, including Standard Register and Mead Paper Company (merged/restructured).
Cleveland Manufacturing: The region has seen a steady decline in factory jobs, with companies like Premier Manufacturing Corp. and Goodrich Corp. closing plants between 2010 and 2015.
WARN Notices: Data indicates high-volume layoffs and closures continuing through 2025 and 2026 in manufacturing and services

All of that sucks, but the government has no business propping business up or bailing them out. Period.


American Karens - not a fan
Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: yotetrapper30] #8609020
05/07/26 05:50 PM
05/07/26 05:50 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
alberta
S
spjones Offline
trapper
spjones  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: Feb 2011
alberta
The government caused the GFC by changing the rules on who could get a loan to buy a house

Then they bailed the banks out first, then everyone else including the auto industry

All the new money sloshing around is why everything is much more expensive today than it should be,,,

Also the main reason asset values have increased as much as they have

Same thing happened again with Covid,,,,


It’ll happen again,,,,

The only question is when?

Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: spjones] #8609061
05/07/26 07:10 PM
05/07/26 07:10 PM
Joined: May 2011
Oakland, MS
yotetrapper30 Offline OP
trapper
yotetrapper30  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: May 2011
Oakland, MS
Originally Posted by spjones
The government caused the GFC by changing the rules on who could get a loan to buy a house

Then they bailed the banks out first, then everyone else including the auto industry

All the new money sloshing around is why everything is much more expensive today than it should be,,,

Also the main reason asset values have increased as much as they have

Same thing happened again with Covid,,,,


It’ll happen again,,,,

The only question is when?



x2. With interest rates near zero, QE, and massive federal stimulus, of course the economy has been booming since the GFC. But it's not natural... its a manipulated market. Check out the P/E ratios of TSLA, AMD, NRG, etc and tell me how sustainable that seems to you? Valuations are out of whack. The market will correct at some point..... unless of course the government decides to bail them all out........


Gotta find a way, a better way, I'd better wait

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not after you
Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: yotetrapper30] #8609076
05/07/26 07:49 PM
05/07/26 07:49 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
KY.usa
rex123 Offline
trapper
rex123  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jun 2012
KY.usa
So many on here on here go on and on about wellfare isn't a bailout the same thing?

Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: yotetrapper30] #8609079
05/07/26 07:50 PM
05/07/26 07:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Ohio, 48yo
OhioBoy Offline
trapper
OhioBoy  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2012
Ohio, 48yo
Have you written a manifesto yet? Geez girl. Whats got you so riled up lately?

Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: OhioBoy] #8609080
05/07/26 07:52 PM
05/07/26 07:52 PM
Joined: May 2011
Oakland, MS
yotetrapper30 Offline OP
trapper
yotetrapper30  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: May 2011
Oakland, MS
Originally Posted by OhioBoy
Have you written a manifesto yet? Geez girl. Whats got you so riled up lately?


I'm not riled up lol. I've been saying the same thing SINCE the GFC, lol. Well, I guess maybe I am a little riled up, because I would expect this stuff from the democrats, not the republicans. frown


Gotta find a way, a better way, I'd better wait

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not after you
Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: yotetrapper30] #8609084
05/07/26 08:01 PM
05/07/26 08:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Ohio, 48yo
OhioBoy Offline
trapper
OhioBoy  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2012
Ohio, 48yo
The democrats are so far gone im not sure that even means what it used to.

Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: OhioBoy] #8609120
05/07/26 09:20 PM
05/07/26 09:20 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Iowa
T
trapdog1 Offline
trapper
trapdog1  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Feb 2015
Iowa
Originally Posted by OhioBoy
The democrats are so far gone im not sure that even means what it used to.

Republicans ain't much better anymore either.


American Karens - not a fan
Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: HobbieTrapper] #8609135
05/07/26 09:45 PM
05/07/26 09:45 PM
Joined: Dec 2024
AR
J
J Staton Offline
trapper
J Staton  Offline
trapper
J

Joined: Dec 2024
AR
Originally Posted by HobbieTrapper
Anybody who thinks the government hasn’t already had its hands in businesses for years has never operated one.

Learned that at an early age. Annexation into the city changes lots of things. Dad's plans for a multi unit mobile home park were dashed by city ordinances requiring major investments into his own property for homes to be moved in. Priced him out of his plans. A few years later he sold the property to a Mexcan feller and now there are multiple units housing those fellers from the south with not a single requirement expected of my dad applied to those folks that came from south of Texas.

Last edited by J Staton; 05/07/26 09:46 PM.
Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: yotetrapper30] #8609154
05/07/26 10:20 PM
05/07/26 10:20 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Armpit, ak
D
Dirt Offline
trapper
Dirt  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Dec 2010
Armpit, ak
Originally Posted by yotetrapper30
Originally Posted by OhioBoy
Have you written a manifesto yet? Geez girl. Whats got you so riled up lately?


I'm not riled up lol. I've been saying the same thing SINCE the GFC, lol. Well, I guess maybe I am a little riled up, because I would expect this stuff from the democrats, not the republicans. frown


Unfortunately, she is becoming a minority. Team free market capitalism. frown


Who is John Galt?
Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: yotetrapper30] #8609160
05/07/26 10:35 PM
05/07/26 10:35 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
ohio
Ohio Wolverine Offline
trapper
Ohio Wolverine  Offline
trapper

Joined: Apr 2007
ohio
I remember when MA BELL wanted total control of telephones .
A monopoly , the government stopped it, yet under a different control of government, that changed!
More to think about than just one or two companies in todays world.
The idea was to have competition , to keep prices down.
Seems that's a lost cause anymore.
Capitalism only works if it has controlling factors, as a limit as to how much control each has.
Seems that a certain party felt they had more control over Spirit airlines than they really had.
Yet because of certain factions, got away with it.

Just a side note , the Wall Street Journal isn't much different than CNN.


We have met the enemy and the enemy is us!
Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: yotetrapper30] #8609253
05/08/26 07:25 AM
05/08/26 07:25 AM
Joined: Jan 2012
Ohio, 48yo
OhioBoy Offline
trapper
OhioBoy  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2012
Ohio, 48yo
I googled GFS and didn't know you were talking about the housing thing if you were. Here is the rest of my story if you are interested. In 02 I started my job and got married and had a kid and bought a house and started a family. I refinanced that house three maybe even four times. We didn't have a down payment for the first mortgage and had PMI insurance and I want to say it was at 8% interest rate, plus the PMI. It took a couple years of working in the factory and paying that down and fixing up the place but in a couple few years I refinanced and got rid of the PMI and also got a lower interest rate. Maybe say 6%. Rates kept going down and I eventually got 4 point something %. I lived there for 20 years and all the home values went up like you are saying. Especially in the area of a good school everyone wants to send their kid to. Sell in the fall and name your price kind of market. Fantastic for me, maybe not someone looking to buy, but I lived there 20 years, paid it off, and actually while I was layed off in 08 I ran up a credit card and finished the upstairs from studs for the kids bedrooms. So my home value went up, I also added two bedrooms and a bathroom, and I cashed in that investment after 20 years. I didn't plan to but in like 22 or so we went to look at a house. It didn't want to go look at a house but went to save an argument. Well we walked in and then I was like well dang now I got to buy a house. So I sold house #1 and its equity, used that as a down payment on a bigger place, financed that new place for 2.5% and with using all that equity for the down payment my house payment is the same as it was as the old place and was a new place with an upgrade. Now here we are 5 years later or so and its equity has also gone up and I'm locked in at the 2.5%. I've since learned that with inflation "saving" money in the bank looses money to inflation but assets increase in value during the same inflation. So if inflation is going to go up, like they are going to start printing money and inject it into the government/economy, like the value of dollar is going to go down or be worth less, then the value of assets (homes, stock market (sp500)) are going to go up... while your cash in savings is actually going to go down. So I don't know how you are supposed to save up for a house now b/c if you are just starting out and trying to save money, its just losing value while the houses get more expensive and you just cant ever catch up. Add in that black rock was buying up all the housing to air bnb everything out and things get messy real quick.

Don't forget that terrorists are trying to end the world (b/c that is when their god returns to earth, behold that guy riding the pale horse that brings death and destruction, Revelations 6:8, thats their god coming down from heaven.) and that they most likely infiltrated our government and is why the dems are acting the way they are. Crazy. God speed.

Hopefully that helps someone somehow. Good luck.

Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: yotetrapper30] #8609255
05/08/26 07:27 AM
05/08/26 07:27 AM
Joined: Feb 2011
alberta
S
spjones Offline
trapper
spjones  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: Feb 2011
alberta
“ Capitalism only works if it has controlling factors” is false

“Controls” are the problem and bring cronyism,over regulation,barriers, etc

They create more problems and cause unintended consequences like what caused the GFC

Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: spjones] #8609257
05/08/26 07:33 AM
05/08/26 07:33 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Armpit, ak
D
Dirt Offline
trapper
Dirt  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Dec 2010
Armpit, ak
Originally Posted by spjones
“ Capitalism only works if it has controlling factors” is false

“Controls” are the problem and bring cronyism,over regulation,barriers, etc

They create more problems and cause unintended consequences like what caused the GFC


People do not trust the invisible hand of the free market as much as the government promises to make them the winner.


Who is John Galt?
Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: yotetrapper30] #8609260
05/08/26 07:40 AM
05/08/26 07:40 AM
Joined: Feb 2011
alberta
S
spjones Offline
trapper
spjones  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: Feb 2011
alberta
OB, that’s why so many young people are now forced to live at home until there30’s,,,have 2 incomes,,, and no kids

It’s only going to get worse

To get ahead nowadays,,, you need to earn more than basic inflation + currency debasement on your savings

It’s still possible to get ahead,,,,

But most folks don’t understand what’s happening

IMHO you need to be earning a minimum 11% +\_ a couple %,,,,, just to break even on savings/investments

Anything less and your losing money



Last edited by spjones; 05/08/26 07:51 AM.
Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: yotetrapper30] #8609268
05/08/26 08:00 AM
05/08/26 08:00 AM
Joined: Jan 2012
Ohio, 48yo
OhioBoy Offline
trapper
OhioBoy  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2012
Ohio, 48yo
yeah here in ohio you are lucky to get a yearly 3% raise.

Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: spjones] #8609269
05/08/26 08:01 AM
05/08/26 08:01 AM
Joined: Dec 2017
Kansas
Pawnee Offline
trapper
Pawnee  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2017
Kansas
Originally Posted by spjones
The government caused the GFC by changing the rules on who could get a loan to buy a house

Then they bailed the banks out first, then everyone else including the auto industry

All the new money sloshing around is why everything is much more expensive today than it should be,,,

Also the main reason asset values have increased as much as they have

Same thing happened again with Covid,,,,


It’ll happen again,,,,

The only question is when?



Couldn’t have said it better! And the “crisis” in 08 was manufactured and made out to be 10 times worse than it was. “The great resection” good grief


Everything the left touches it destroys
Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: yotetrapper30] #8609276
05/08/26 08:07 AM
05/08/26 08:07 AM
Joined: Jan 2018
MN
D
Donnersurvivor Offline
trapper
Donnersurvivor  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Jan 2018
MN
I graduated in 08, the crisis was real for me. Trying to find good jobs was tough. It's likely why I've maintained the scarcity mindset I grew up with.


Chief of staff @ Mensa Tree division/vison officer
Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: Ohio Wolverine] #8609320
05/08/26 10:01 AM
05/08/26 10:01 AM
Joined: May 2010
alabama
BandB Offline
trapper
BandB  Offline
trapper

Joined: May 2010
alabama
Originally Posted by Ohio Wolverine
I remember when MA BELL wanted total control of telephones .
A monopoly , the government stopped it, yet under a different control of government, that changed!
More to think about than just one or two companies in todays world.
The idea was to have competition , to keep prices down.
Seems that's a lost cause anymore.
Capitalism only works if it has controlling factors, as a limit as to how much control each has.
Seems that a certain party felt they had more control over Spirit airlines than they really had.
Yet because of certain factions, got away with it.

Just a side note , the Wall Street Journal isn't much different than CNN.


If you think the breakup of the Bell system was about competition, you need to research a little more.

Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: spjones] #8609335
05/08/26 10:23 AM
05/08/26 10:23 AM
Joined: May 2011
Oakland, MS
yotetrapper30 Offline OP
trapper
yotetrapper30  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: May 2011
Oakland, MS
Originally Posted by spjones
“ Capitalism only works if it has controlling factors” is false

“Controls” are the problem and bring cronyism,over regulation,barriers, etc

They create more problems and cause unintended consequences like what caused the GFC


I read that comment of his, started to reply, and then figured it's just not worth it. With so-called conservatives with the mindset of OW and OB, it's no wonder this country is in the shape it's in. SMH.


Gotta find a way, a better way, I'd better wait

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not after you
Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: yotetrapper30] #8609339
05/08/26 10:47 AM
05/08/26 10:47 AM
Joined: Jan 2012
Ohio, 48yo
OhioBoy Offline
trapper
OhioBoy  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2012
Ohio, 48yo
Country in what shape? Stock market with all time highs?

Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: yotetrapper30] #8609341
05/08/26 10:52 AM
05/08/26 10:52 AM
Joined: May 2011
Oakland, MS
yotetrapper30 Offline OP
trapper
yotetrapper30  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: May 2011
Oakland, MS
There's more to "the country" than the market. I also do not believe the market is anywhere near its intrinsic value... it's extremely inflated IMO due to... well several reasons but primarily excessive fiscal stimulation. But market aside, my comment was more in reference to the willingness of society to accept government intrusion in every aspect of their lives.


Gotta find a way, a better way, I'd better wait

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not after you
Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: yotetrapper30] #8609343
05/08/26 10:54 AM
05/08/26 10:54 AM
Joined: Jan 2012
Ohio, 48yo
OhioBoy Offline
trapper
OhioBoy  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2012
Ohio, 48yo
Stock market is all time high. Unemployment is an close to an all time low. You still seem to be wanting to talk theory when we have actual data and Im not sure I understand why.

Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: OhioBoy] #8609416
05/08/26 01:52 PM
05/08/26 01:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
MN
D
Donnersurvivor Offline
trapper
Donnersurvivor  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Jan 2018
MN
Originally Posted by OhioBoy
Stock market is all time high. Unemployment is an close to an all time low. You still seem to be wanting to talk theory when we have actual data and Im not sure I understand why.


The market is not the only measure of a healthy economy.

You have married 30 year Olds working full time jobs and they can't afford a house, they're putting off having kids, they worry about an accident or disease bankrupting them with medical debt but all they hear is "economy is great, look at the market!" Coming from a legion of boomers who grew up during the most prosperous economic time in world history


Chief of staff @ Mensa Tree division/vison officer
Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: OhioBoy] #8609418
05/08/26 02:03 PM
05/08/26 02:03 PM
Joined: May 2019
Saskatchewan
R
rvsask Offline
trapper
rvsask  Offline
trapper
R

Joined: May 2019
Saskatchewan
Originally Posted by OhioBoy
Country in what shape? Stock market with all time highs?

This is a terrible metric. In reality, the top 10% own over 90% of US stock, the top 1% own own 50% of mutual funds. An all time high stock market sounds great in theory until you actually consider how few people benefit from it. It is good for the ultra wealthy though and they are lucky to have so many regular folk thinking governments are working for them instead of the ultra wealthy.

Last edited by rvsask; 05/08/26 02:03 PM.
Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: yotetrapper30] #8609428
05/08/26 02:45 PM
05/08/26 02:45 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
alberta
S
spjones Offline
trapper
spjones  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: Feb 2011
alberta
Everyone and anyone can participate in the capital markets/capitalism,,,, nothing holding anyone back

Nothing has lifted more people out of poverty than capitalism/capital markets

Everyone has benefited from it

Full stop!!!


What OB is missing,,,,,,is GOVERNMENT DEBT

Government debt(bail outs, stimulus, etc) is at all time highs across much of the world

Eventually it will crash every thing down,,,,,

Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: yotetrapper30] #8609474
05/08/26 05:45 PM
05/08/26 05:45 PM
Joined: May 2011
Oakland, MS
yotetrapper30 Offline OP
trapper
yotetrapper30  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: May 2011
Oakland, MS
But.... but... but..... the stock market is at all time highs so bailouts must be good.........

There's gonna be a lot of people in a world of hurt when this house of cards comes tumbling down. Admittedly, probably myself as well, but at least I can see the risk and won't be blindsided when it comes.


Gotta find a way, a better way, I'd better wait

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not after you
Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: yotetrapper30] #8609476
05/08/26 05:49 PM
05/08/26 05:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
MN
D
Donnersurvivor Offline
trapper
Donnersurvivor  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Jan 2018
MN
I agree spjones but I would add taxation to something holding people back but that goes hand in hand with debt. People have no idea how much they pay in taxes as most of them are "hidden", sales tax, payroll tax, property tax affecting their rent, etc


Chief of staff @ Mensa Tree division/vison officer
Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: Donnersurvivor] #8609477
05/08/26 05:50 PM
05/08/26 05:50 PM
Joined: Nov 2012
midland, michigan
M
midlander Offline
trapper
midlander  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Nov 2012
midland, michigan
Originally Posted by Donnersurvivor
Originally Posted by OhioBoy
Stock market is all time high. Unemployment is an close to an all time low. You still seem to be wanting to talk theory when we have actual data and Im not sure I understand why.


The market is not the only measure of a healthy economy.

You have married 30 year Olds working full time jobs and they can't afford a house, they're putting off having kids, they worry about an accident or disease bankrupting them with medical debt but all they hear is "economy is great, look at the market!" Coming from a legion of boomers who grew up during the most prosperous economic time in world history


Let me correct you...you have 30 year olds that buy $8 coffees on their way to work, get home and turn on their $150 a month cable TV, go out to eat 3 times a week, go to the movies or honkey tonk every weekend, drive $700+ a month brand new status symbol vehicles, pay someone else $80 to change there oil because they dont know how or are too lazy......the list goes on. Young folk cant afford housing because they are pee poor with their finances and cant decipher between wants and needs.... rant over

Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: yotetrapper30] #8609489
05/08/26 06:32 PM
05/08/26 06:32 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Coldspring Texas
Savell Offline
trapper
Savell  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Coldspring Texas
…. I got the sarcasm Ohio Boy


Insert profound nonsense here
Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: yotetrapper30] #8609580
05/08/26 08:56 PM
05/08/26 08:56 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Moved to Fbks, Ak.
M
martentrapper Offline
trapper
martentrapper  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Dec 2006
Moved to Fbks, Ak.
Boomer here. Born in 57. Grocery store in highschool. Full time Grocery 77/78. Moved to Alaska July 78. Wilderness trapper and summer work for pay 78-85. Aircraft mechanic 86 to retirement in 2022. Bought a duplex in early 2006 in Nome. 6% interest. 2008 crash didn't hit western Alaska like other places. Sold the duplex in 2012. Took the cash from the duplex and made a huge down payment on a house in Fairbanks in 2012. Employer bankrupt in 2020 but walked down the street and hired at a different aviation biz. Retired 2022. Doing OK. 2 IRAs. Wife retired with 3 or so IRAs. SSA monthly checks and some supplemental money. Still paying the monthly mortgage.
Life is pretty good. Choices/decisions matter!

Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: midlander] #8609647
05/08/26 10:58 PM
05/08/26 10:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
MN
D
Donnersurvivor Offline
trapper
Donnersurvivor  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Jan 2018
MN
Originally Posted by midlander

Let me correct you...you have 30 year olds that buy $8 coffees on their way to work, get home and turn on their $150 a month cable TV, go out to eat 3 times a week, go to the movies or honkey tonk every weekend, drive $700+ a month brand new status symbol vehicles, pay someone else $80 to change there oil because they dont know how or are too lazy......the list goes on. Young folk cant afford housing because they are pee poor with their finances and cant decipher between wants and needs.... rant over


Do you really believe the only thing holding young people back from home ownership is $8 coffees and cable TV? Do you think the prospects for the average up and coming 20/30 year Olds are equal or better than the boomers had it?


Chief of staff @ Mensa Tree division/vison officer
Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: Donnersurvivor] #8609649
05/08/26 10:59 PM
05/08/26 10:59 PM
Joined: May 2011
Oakland, MS
yotetrapper30 Offline OP
trapper
yotetrapper30  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: May 2011
Oakland, MS
Originally Posted by Donnersurvivor
Originally Posted by midlander

Let me correct you...you have 30 year olds that buy $8 coffees on their way to work, get home and turn on their $150 a month cable TV, go out to eat 3 times a week, go to the movies or honkey tonk every weekend, drive $700+ a month brand new status symbol vehicles, pay someone else $80 to change there oil because they dont know how or are too lazy......the list goes on. Young folk cant afford housing because they are pee poor with their finances and cant decipher between wants and needs.... rant over


Do you really believe the only thing holding young people back from home ownership is $8 coffees and cable TV? Do you think the prospects for the average up and coming 20/30 year Olds are equal or better than the boomers had it?


Honestly I believe they are better. Other than the housing thing right now...... but I think that will eventually improve some.... but not a lot. There is only so much land available......


Gotta find a way, a better way, I'd better wait

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not after you
Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: yotetrapper30] #8609659
05/08/26 11:21 PM
05/08/26 11:21 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
East-Central Wisconsin
B
bblwi Offline
trapper
bblwi  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Dec 2006
East-Central Wisconsin
If you can't afford a home, if you can't afford to raise children due to day care costs and other costs, if you are paying for auto loans as you need transportation for work, why not buy an expensive coffee, you can't afford much else right now. Wages are increasing but not keeping up with the costs that are rising, especially those that we have traditionally used as measures for establishing families and living in one's own home. If younger people are unable to aquire real estate it will also lower their wealth growth abilities too.

Bryce

Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: yotetrapper30] #8609688
Yesterday at 04:38 AM
Yesterday at 04:38 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Wisconsin
8117 Steve R Offline
trapper
8117 Steve R  Offline
trapper

Joined: Oct 2014
Wisconsin
That 8 dollar coffee is a symptom of poor money management. Do you really think that is their only wasteful spending practice?


Steve
WTA
NRA
Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: yotetrapper30] #8609720
Yesterday at 06:56 AM
Yesterday at 06:56 AM
Joined: Feb 2011
alberta
S
spjones Offline
trapper
spjones  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: Feb 2011
alberta
The 8 dollar coffee and crazy high real estate(asset) prices(everything prices) has been caused by an increase in money supply

The more dollars there are,,,, the less purchasing power

Bail outs/stimulus/useless government spending,,,,,money printing!!!!

Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: yotetrapper30] #8609727
Yesterday at 07:19 AM
Yesterday at 07:19 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Online content
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Online Content
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
williamsburg ks
Houses are easier to buy today than when Carter was president. Much easier. People are being brainwashed into thinking that first home purchase is not possible.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: yotetrapper30] #8609735
Yesterday at 07:30 AM
Yesterday at 07:30 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
South shore L.I. N.Y.
G
gcs Offline
trapper
gcs  Offline
trapper
G

Joined: Dec 2006
South shore L.I. N.Y.
Depends where you are....starter homes here are 700 - 800g, nice 3 bedrooms are hovering just under a million, new larger homes 1 1/2 - 2 mill plus. it's insane and the reason locals are selling out and the kids have to move to a lower cost state....

it seems money has no value to some people...where they got their money is a mystery....

Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: yotetrapper30] #8609737
Yesterday at 07:35 AM
Yesterday at 07:35 AM
Joined: May 2010
MN
S
Steven 49er Offline
trapper
Steven 49er  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: May 2010
MN
Originally Posted by yotetrapper30
Originally Posted by spjones
“ Capitalism only works if it has controlling factors” is false

“Controls” are the problem and bring cronyism,over regulation,barriers, etc

They create more problems and cause unintended consequences like what caused the GFC


I read that comment of his, started to reply, and then figured it's just not worth it. With so-called conservatives with the mindset of OW and OB, it's no wonder this country is in the shape it's in. SMH.


Since when have conservatives been proponents of the free market?

The uniparty is alive and well.


"Gold is money, everything else is just credit" JP Morgan
Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: yotetrapper30] #8609739
Yesterday at 07:40 AM
Yesterday at 07:40 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Online content
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Online Content
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
williamsburg ks
gcs demand sets price. if kids are leaving its a good thing


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: yotetrapper30] #8609741
Yesterday at 07:42 AM
Yesterday at 07:42 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Armpit, ak
D
Dirt Offline
trapper
Dirt  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Dec 2010
Armpit, ak
If you have free market capitalism you would be able to live in a creation of your own not subject to zoning and building codes. Most people could figure out how to build their shack. Lived in a place like this for 35 years. It is your neighbors/builders/government that would not tolerate this freedom. You are stuck in the housing industrial complex. frown


Who is John Galt?
Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: midlander] #8609748
Yesterday at 07:56 AM
Yesterday at 07:56 AM
Joined: Feb 2024
Iowa
S
slue-foot Offline
trapper
slue-foot  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: Feb 2024
Iowa
X2

Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: yotetrapper30] #8609760
Yesterday at 08:13 AM
Yesterday at 08:13 AM
Joined: Jan 2018
MN
D
Donnersurvivor Offline
trapper
Donnersurvivor  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Jan 2018
MN
[Linked Image]


It's not $8 coffees.

Edit- graph may be hard to read but the red bar is price adjusted for inflation

Last edited by Donnersurvivor; Yesterday at 08:14 AM.

Chief of staff @ Mensa Tree division/vison officer
Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: gcs] #8609764
Yesterday at 08:16 AM
Yesterday at 08:16 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
SEPA
L
Lugnut Online content
trapper
Lugnut  Online Content
trapper
L

Joined: Dec 2006
SEPA
Originally Posted by gcs
Depends where you are....starter homes here are 700 - 800g, nice 3 bedrooms are hovering just under a million, new larger homes 1 1/2 - 2 mill plus. it's insane and the reason locals are selling out and the kids have to move to a lower cost state....

it seems money has no value to some people...where they got their money is a mystery....


That’s the same thing I’m seeing here in Southeast Pennsylvania. Housing prices are insane. A buddy recently sold his house prior to moving to Florida. He bought it 20 years ago for $200,000. He sold it for $420,000. When he first listed it, I told him there’s no way you’re ever going to get that. It’s just a three bedroom ranch on a decent lot.

Within a month it was sold.


Eh...wot?

Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: Dirt] #8609766
Yesterday at 08:20 AM
Yesterday at 08:20 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
SEPA
L
Lugnut Online content
trapper
Lugnut  Online Content
trapper
L

Joined: Dec 2006
SEPA
Originally Posted by Dirt
If you have free market capitalism you would be able to live in a creation of your own not subject to zoning and building codes. Most people could figure out how to build their shack. Lived in a place like this for 35 years. It is your neighbors/builders/government that would not tolerate this freedom. You are stuck in the housing industrial complex. frown


There is a lot of truth in this statement.

Some years ago, special interest groups were lobbying lawmakers to require sprinkler systems to be installed in all new residential construction. It would’ve added an insane amount of cost to a typical new home.

A bill was introduced, but luckily, it was defeated, but only narrowly.


Eh...wot?

Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: yotetrapper30] #8609768
Yesterday at 08:24 AM
Yesterday at 08:24 AM
Joined: Dec 2024
AR
J
J Staton Offline
trapper
J Staton  Offline
trapper
J

Joined: Dec 2024
AR
What has happened in Arkansas is that someone in California can sell their two bedroom house for a million dollars, move to Arkansas, and pay for a house in full with money left over. Where as a guy in Arkansas can sell his house and move to Mississippi and he may profit enough to take the family out to dinner at Taco Bell. So for native residents of Arkansas, with native wages, we not only experienced standard inflation but west coast invasion inflation also. Now what was once a $60,000 house ten years ago, is now a $160,000 house.

Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: yotetrapper30] #8609769
Yesterday at 08:27 AM
Yesterday at 08:27 AM
Joined: Feb 2011
alberta
S
spjones Offline
trapper
spjones  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: Feb 2011
alberta
If you can’t build a shed, addition, home on your own property with out government approval

You truly don’t own it

Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: spjones] #8609771
Yesterday at 08:34 AM
Yesterday at 08:34 AM
Joined: Dec 2024
AR
J
J Staton Offline
trapper
J Staton  Offline
trapper
J

Joined: Dec 2024
AR
Originally Posted by spjones
If you can’t build a shed, addition, home on your own property with out government approval

You truly don’t own it




We have property taxes, we just rent our paid for land. lol

Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: yotetrapper30] #8609778
Yesterday at 08:46 AM
Yesterday at 08:46 AM
Joined: Feb 2011
alberta
S
spjones Offline
trapper
spjones  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: Feb 2011
alberta
Ya, same here,,

Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: J Staton] #8609779
Yesterday at 08:49 AM
Yesterday at 08:49 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
SEPA
L
Lugnut Online content
trapper
Lugnut  Online Content
trapper
L

Joined: Dec 2006
SEPA
Originally Posted by J Staton
Originally Posted by spjones
If you can’t build a shed, addition, home on your own property with out government approval

You truly don’t own it




We have property taxes, we just rent our paid for land. lol


X 2

And if you don’t pay your property taxes, at least here in Pennsylvania, they will forcibly remove you from your home and sell it to the highest bidder.


Eh...wot?

Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: yotetrapper30] #8609788
Yesterday at 09:03 AM
Yesterday at 09:03 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
South shore L.I. N.Y.
G
gcs Offline
trapper
gcs  Offline
trapper
G

Joined: Dec 2006
South shore L.I. N.Y.
Not Californians, but NYC people. Same thing though, they create the demand and the price goes through the roof....people buying a "cheap" house for the lot, then tear down the house....open lots that are left going as high as a million bucks, then the builder puts a 2 million plus house on it....This place has changed big time, and not for the better...

Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: Donnersurvivor] #8609869
Yesterday at 11:49 AM
Yesterday at 11:49 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Armpit, ak
D
Dirt Offline
trapper
Dirt  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Dec 2010
Armpit, ak
Originally Posted by Donnersurvivor
[Linked Image]


It's not $8 coffees.

Edit- graph may be hard to read but the red bar is price adjusted for inflation


The evolution of the American house can be seen in every small town in America. The average square footage has more than doubled Lots are bigger and complexity of the structures and landscaping is absurd. The best part is families are smaller. People are not buying shelter, they are buying an investment. The winner is the guy who collects property taxes and sells the homeowners insurance .


Who is John Galt?
Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: yotetrapper30] #8609889
Yesterday at 12:48 PM
Yesterday at 12:48 PM
Joined: May 2010
MN
S
Steven 49er Offline
trapper
Steven 49er  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: May 2010
MN
Long term home ownership is a poor investment


"Gold is money, everything else is just credit" JP Morgan
Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: Steven 49er] #8609937
Yesterday at 02:54 PM
Yesterday at 02:54 PM
Joined: Nov 2012
midland, michigan
M
midlander Offline
trapper
midlander  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Nov 2012
midland, michigan
Originally Posted by Steven 49er
Long term home ownership is a poor investment


Nah...

Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: Donnersurvivor] #8609941
Yesterday at 03:02 PM
Yesterday at 03:02 PM
Joined: Nov 2012
midland, michigan
M
midlander Offline
trapper
midlander  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Nov 2012
midland, michigan
Originally Posted by Donnersurvivor
Originally Posted by midlander

Let me correct you...you have 30 year olds that buy $8 coffees on their way to work, get home and turn on their $150 a month cable TV, go out to eat 3 times a week, go to the movies or honkey tonk every weekend, drive $700+ a month brand new status symbol vehicles, pay someone else $80 to change there oil because they dont know how or are too lazy......the list goes on. Young folk cant afford housing because they are pee poor with their finances and cant decipher between wants and needs.... rant over


Do you really believe the only thing holding young people back from home ownership is $8 coffees and cable TV? Do you think the prospects for the average up and coming 20/30 year Olds are equal or better than the boomers had it?


As I said, the list goes on...and yes I do. Young folks have terrible financial habits from what Ive seen. Ive known so many young couple that get married and immediately want everything that their parents have, too ignorant to understand it took their parents a lifetime to get where they are at. Savell gave perfect example of young kid going into debt for a toy...promise you that isnt the last toy he'll likely go in debt for. Do stupid things with your money and then whine about how tough it is to buy a house....decisions have consequences.

Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: Steven 49er] #8609951
Yesterday at 03:42 PM
Yesterday at 03:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
MN
D
Donnersurvivor Offline
trapper
Donnersurvivor  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Jan 2018
MN
Originally Posted by Steven 49er
Long term home ownership is a poor investment


Maybe if your strictly a numbers person with little emotion... my farm has been a terrible investment from a numbers standpoint, Great lifestyle though and good for raising kids that end up "normal". There's a peace that comes with owning a home, what's the price of peace?


Chief of staff @ Mensa Tree division/vison officer
Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: yotetrapper30] #8609957
Yesterday at 04:02 PM
Yesterday at 04:02 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Armpit, ak
D
Dirt Offline
trapper
Dirt  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Dec 2010
Armpit, ak
Governments run on emotion Their numbers are not so good either.


Who is John Galt?
Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: Donnersurvivor] #8609986
Yesterday at 05:24 PM
Yesterday at 05:24 PM
Joined: May 2010
MN
S
Steven 49er Offline
trapper
Steven 49er  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: May 2010
MN
Originally Posted by Donnersurvivor
Originally Posted by Steven 49er
Long term home ownership is a poor investment


Maybe if your strictly a numbers person with little emotion... my farm has been a terrible investment from a numbers standpoint, Great lifestyle though and good for raising kids that end up "normal". There's a peace that comes with owning a home, what's the price of peace?


A person needs a home. The memories made from raising a family in a home is priceless.

Homes are expensive to own, when people sell them they talk about the money they made. Most most forget about taxes, insurance and up keep.


"Gold is money, everything else is just credit" JP Morgan
Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: yotetrapper30] #8609999
Yesterday at 05:53 PM
Yesterday at 05:53 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Rochester, MN
Teacher Offline
trapper
Teacher  Offline
trapper

Joined: Nov 2010
Rochester, MN
There’s much to be said both for and against this article. Against might consider the “too much government” that DOGE was created to get us out of. In the end, we laid off tax collectors. Then hired them back, to collect the government’s share of business taxes and loans.


Never too old to learn
Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: Teacher] #8610012
Yesterday at 06:27 PM
Yesterday at 06:27 PM
Joined: May 2011
Oakland, MS
yotetrapper30 Offline OP
trapper
yotetrapper30  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: May 2011
Oakland, MS
Originally Posted by Teacher
There’s much to be said both for and against this article. Against might consider the “too much government” that DOGE was created to get us out of. In the end, we laid off tax collectors. Then hired them back, to collect the government’s share of business taxes and loans.


Where do you come up with this stuff? CNN?

The IRS workforce was reduced by only about 5k people, which amounts to about 2% of the total reduction in government employees since Trump took office.

Overall, since his inauguration, the federal civilian workforce has shrank by about 10%. Now, that's nowhere near as much as it needs to be shrunk, but not bad for a year and a half!

If you're interested in more solid numbers (which I doubt you are since they won't fit your agenda), there were roughly 2.7 million government civil employees when Trump took office. Since then, 278,282 employees have either been let go, resigned, or took early retirement. Source.

So which government departments saw the biggest losses? The one with the biggest decline was the Department of Education (which may be why you're so disgruntled that you're posting misinformation??), followed by USAID, and then the USDA. That's per capita, by the way, not total number of jobs gone. Most all agencies have decreased in size somewhat, though.

Now as anyone who's paid attention to my posts can attest to, when Trump does something I disagree with (such as the topic of this post) I will call him out on it all day. But, I'll also give credit where it is due, and shrinking fed government bloat by 10% IMO is commendable for sure.

I'll also call out people who post blatantly false "facts" without a single source to support their outlandish claims.


Gotta find a way, a better way, I'd better wait

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not after you
Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: yotetrapper30] #8610017
Yesterday at 06:33 PM
Yesterday at 06:33 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
NWWA/AZ
Vinke Offline
trapper
Vinke  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
NWWA/AZ
Originally Posted by yotetrapper30


I'll also call out people who post blatantly false "facts" without a single source to support their outlandish claims.



Looks like the AI is working out well


Ant Man/ Marty 2028

B.C.O.G 1%er…..

Re: Trump Capitalism? [Re: yotetrapper30] #8610192
Yesterday at 11:40 PM
Yesterday at 11:40 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
ohio
Ohio Wolverine Offline
trapper
Ohio Wolverine  Offline
trapper

Joined: Apr 2007
ohio
yotetrapper30 has a valid point, less government intrusion.
Yet our government controls every facit of our lives.
I'm not saying government should control anything but it's self.
Insider trading along with backing donors to their campaign , has to stop.
Along with they vote themselves raises , and control way too much.
I was referring to deregulation.
It used to be that companies could only work in certain areas that they held rights to.
Much like a mining claim.
Regan started deregulation , and Carter finished it.
I was making over $12.00 an hour in the mid 1970's, deregulation meant companies could no longer own/operate in certain areas.
In other words your mining claim was no longer valid.
Trucking companies were everywhere, many serving the same cities and states.
Then all of a sudden , they couldn't , jobs were lost companies closed, same with the steel mills.
There has to be some control, but it's totally out of hand anymore.
The idea was service industries were the future.
LOL So yotetrapper30 is right , too much government control.
I know we can't be political, but have to point out, we could be finally going in the right direction.
It's going to hurt, same as anything new in our lives, but we can survive and take back our control of the government.
The way it was meant to be in the first place.
When our country was born, it relied on tariffs alone, no taxes on property, just taxes on whisky that was sold over seas.
I could be wrong about that, it's all I remember without looking it up.
And anymore you can't get an answer you can trust.
But it was 1913 when our country stopped tariffs , and went to taxes on income.
Then it was taxes on anything we bought, then it was taxes on anything we owned, and on and on.
I just hope I see it turn around and taxes are no longer.
Funny how roads were built and bridges were built before taxes, isn't it?
People wanted them, and donated to get them built!
That's a strong country, not one that's taxed to death.
JMHO


We have met the enemy and the enemy is us!
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread