I spent a lot of years working for trappers - fur trappers and ADC trappers - and trapping associations in MI, in varying leadership roles. I am wondering how many people on here believe that fur trapping is recreational like a lot of State fish and game departments say it is? If so, why? What do you think makes it recreational?

Another question; Do you believe nonresident trappers should be able to trap in your State with the same identical seasons, for all of the species you can legally harvest, using the same regulations you do, and for the same license fee that you pay?

I know this isn't our typical type of discussion, so humor me. I've been on Paul's site for many years off and on under various names. I have 58 years of trapping experience.

I don't much care if it's called recreational or not.
And I have no problem with nonresidents playing by the same rules as residents. I wish it were that way nationwide.

It's a word game. There's reasons why things a labeled certain ways. When the word commercial comes into use all kinds of fun regulations come into play.

Definitely commercial here.
Non residents should not be able to acquire a registered trapline in my opinion but they should be allowed to work for an 01 trapper.as an 02

I post of this just my 2 cents.

I do it for the love of it. Will always be a heritage trapping furs to me,Born 1980 and I have been doing it ever since. I have so many pictures and memories of me and dad back then, and we still do a week long trip every year. Not only fur but also people in those days eat a lot of what I caught as well. ( Beaver, coon ). And I still
Have a lot of friends that will call every year looking for meat.

Now the out of State fees and reg. Yes I wish we could trap other sates the same as the locals and pay same price.
I have never veiled in having to pay extra for out of state license. On hunting or trapping. Any help
On the animal population helps and shouldn’t have to pay more. We are all ready paying to get there, paying to stay and eat. There still making money on us.

I would like to see the seasons, regulations, and cost the same in all states for resident/non-resident.
I am busy enough with trapping that I have sets out most months of the year and I would count only about 3 weeks as recreational. Most of my activity is focused on helping landowners with critter issues.

… I get paid a little to kill things around here

…. And a make a few bucks off of wildcat hides

…. I’d say that’s commercial

.. and as far as the nonresident stuff goes…. They come down here in droves to do the same thing

… then make social media videos about it

I trap because I enjoy doing it. Whether the fur prices are up or down I trap. I don't mind if nonresidents can trap as long as they respect any of the trappers in the same area.

As long as it's reciprocal I'm okay with it.

Registered traplines I would consider commercial.

Open area trapping I would consider recreational.

Non resident trappers should not be allowed.

Like Georgia's 5k bond requirement for nonresidents.

It is both

"Recreational" far outnumber the "commercial" trappers in the lower 48 though

I consider commercial to mean a person makes a good part of their living expenses off of trapping. ADC work mostly but there are some individuals that make a decent part of their yearly income off of trapping and selling fur.

I consider it a challenge with exercise included!

i believe that others should be able to come to mich, and trap everything that we can trap, i have gone else where and trap, as far as price i see no problem with paying more for license , i dislike trapping called a sport, or recreational,

What would you guys think if I told you the SCOTUS has already legally defined what constitutes an activity being done for recreation versus an activity being done commercially? Even the Internal Revenue Service has defined what constitutes an activity being engaged in as a not-for-profit hobby versus a for-profit avocation or business venture.

The IRS short version is a recreational activity is one that DOES NOT generate an income stream. In example, Little League baseball players play the game for recreation and sport. They do not play it with the intention of being paid even a dollar.

Fur harvesting - the hunting and trapping of furbearers and fur-bearing predators - is a commercial activity because it generates an income stream due to you harvesting the animals with the intention of shipping and selling the animals and all the products thereof in interstate commerce. As such, according to the IRS commercial fur harvesting can be engaged in as a not-for-profit hobby or as a for-profit avocation or business venture. If you are engaged in commercial fur harvesting as a not-for-profit hobby you are not keeping records of your time invested each year toward commercial fur harvesting, your total costs each year, or your income you receive. You have no idea if you are profitable or not. But if you are operating as a for-profit avocation or as a business venture you are keeping very detailed records of all your fur harvesting activities all year long on a daily basis, you know and record all of your overhead costs - fixed and variable - and all sources for, and amounts of, all income received. And you are constantly looking for ways to lower your overhead costs and be more efficient, which will make you more profitable. The more profitable you are the more enjoyment you will get from it as it is not costing your family money - you are making money and a a part of your livelihood from the activity you love to do.

If your State fish and game division is telling you fur harvesting is commercial, they are telling you a falsehood. A complete fabrication. There is a reason they are doing it as well. And it is self serving for them.

I'll post the SCOTUS rulings in a day or two. But remember this, the words "avocation, business venture, profitable, and livelihood" are very important to this discussion.

JP,
Scared of a little competition?

Come on down to Georgia fellers....."The water's fine!"

If a trapper never sells ANY fur or receives ANY money for ADC work, that is recreational. Otherwise, obviously it is commercial.

I've been trapping for nearly 60 years in Alaska. If a NR from a small flat state with no butt-deep snow wants to come here and try his hand, why shouldn't he operate under the same rules? I'm not worried about a little competition.

Pete

I accidentally made a wording mistake and left off an important point towards the end of my last posting. Let me correct it here:

If your State fish and game division is telling you fur harvesting is recreational, they are telling you a falsehood. A complete fabrication. There is a reason they are doing it as well. And it is self serving for them. By stating fur harvesting is recreational, and managing fur harvesting as being recreational, they could be deliberately violating federal and Constitutional laws and the fundamental rights of nonresident commercial fur harvesters unless they have a substantial reason for treating nonresident fur harvesters disparately (different) from the citizens of their own State that are engaged in commercial fur harvesting. It was long ago ruled by the SCOTUS that when natural resources are harvested and destined for interstate commerce, the statutes and regulations governing the harvesting and those engaged in the commercial activity must conform to federal and Constitutional laws.

I apologize for the mistakes earlier this morning. I was on a short time schedule. I should not have rushed and posted without proof reading it first.