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Mountain Man Monday 8/10 #8647099
08/10/26 07:26 AM
08/10/26 07:26 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
east central WI
k snow Offline OP
trapper
k snow  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2009
east central WI
Powder horns were vital accessories when shooting muzzleloading guns. Next to the gun itself, a shooting bag and powder horn were some of the most important equipment a Trapper could carry.
Here are some passages regarding powder horns.

From John Bradbury:
Mr. Crooks and myself set out for the Otto village, attended
by, two of the Canadians, one named Guardépée, the other La Liberté. Our equipments were, a
blanket, a rifle, eighty bullets, a full powder horn a knife, and tomahawk, for each.


From Robert Campbell:
There were three of our party killed in the fight, and the Blackfeet reported seventeen killed on
their side. We found twenty-five dead horses, killed in the Blackfeet camp, and among the horses
killed were two taken from Fitzpatrick.
In consequence of Sublette’s wound we remained in camp for two weeks.
While there, Fitzpatrick joined us in a famished condition. He lost his powder horn, and had
nothing to eat for many days.


From W.A. Ferris:
The same evening one of our men by the name
of Perkins, was severely burned by the accidental explosion of his powder horn.


Also from Ferris:
When Gray reached his own lodge, his mangled frozen feet were examined; they were swollen to
twice their natural size, and were quite black; however, at the expiration of two months, he was
quite well, and the circumstances of his so narrow escape almost forgotten. He left his powder
horn, shot‑pouch, belt, and knife at the field of death, which will account for his want of success,
when endeavoring to kindle a fire; and for being compelled to construct his raft with a pen knife,
which is a rare instrument in this country, because it is useless, save in such a peculiar case.


Here's a scene from Osborne Russell that highlights how important it was to have equipment within arm's reach at all times:
Sometime after they were gone I went to a bale of dried meat which had been spread in the Sun 30 or 40 feet
from the place where we slept here I pulled off my powder horn and bullet pouch laid them on a
log drew my butcher knife and began to cut We were encamped about a half a mile from the Lake
on a stream turning into it in a S.W. direction thro. a prarie bottom about a quarter of a mile wide
On each side of this valley arose a bench of land about 20 ft high running paralell with the stream
and covered with pines On this bench we were encamped on the SE side of the stream The pines
immediately behind us was thickly intermingled with logs and fallen trees - After eating a few
[minutes] I arose and kindled a fire filled my tobacco pipe and sat down to smoke My comrade
whose name was White was still sleeping. Presently I cast my eyes towards the horses which were
feeding in the Valley and discovered the heads of some Indians who were gliding round under the
bench within 30 steps of me I jumped to my rifle and aroused White and looking towards my
powder horn and bullet pouch it was already in the hands of an Indian and we were completely
surrounded We cocked our rifles and started thro. their ranks into the woods which seemed to be
completely filled with Blackfeet who rent the air with their horrid yells. on presenting our rifles
they opened a space about 20 ft. wide thro. which we plunged about the fourth jump an arrow
struck White on the right hip joint I hastily told him to pull it out and I spoke another arrow
struck me in the same place but they did not retard our progress At length another arrow striking
thro. my right leg above the knee benumbed the flesh so that I fell with my breast accross a log.


Trappers, by Alfred Jacob Miller. Note the powder horn pushed around to the back to be away from the fire.
[Linked Image]


"in the midst of a savage wilderness to depend entirely upon their unassisted strength and hardihood"
Re: Mountain Man Monday 8/10 [Re: k snow] #8647107
08/10/26 07:55 AM
08/10/26 07:55 AM
Joined: Apr 2020
Iowa
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Squirt Offline
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Iowa
Interesting K snow obviously there are a lot of variables such as rifle caliber, size of the horn etc but roughly how many shots do you think could be fired from an average sized powder horn? Did each trapper also carry a small keg of powder for refilling when working out away from the main fur brigade? In your experience could the powder be dried out if it got wet? It seems like they were forever getting wet one way or another

Re: Mountain Man Monday 8/10 [Re: Squirt] #8647108
08/10/26 08:03 AM
08/10/26 08:03 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
east central WI
k snow Offline OP
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k snow  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2009
east central WI
Originally Posted by Squirt
Interesting K snow obviously there are a lot of variables such as rifle caliber, size of the horn etc but roughly how many shots do you think could be fired from an average sized powder horn? Did each trapper also carry a small keg of powder for refilling when working out away from the main fur brigade? In your experience could the powder be dried out if it got wet? It seems like they were forever getting wet one way or another


Most of the horns would carry about 3/4 to a full pound of powder. Typical loads in the day were 50 to 90 grains of powder, plus some for priming. 7,000 grains to the pound. So 50ish shots per horn.
Indians were known for using "half charges", and the distinctive report, a hollow woosh instead of a crack, was reported often.
Dedicated buffalo market hunters often used 150 to 200 grains of powder in 54 and 62 caliber rifles. Those are some stout loads.
I have not read anything about trappers carrying bulk powder. Several instances of carrying multiple horns (on their pack animals).
Yes, powder can be dried out, there's a few references to "spreading powder to dry" after getting wet (usually in a river).


"in the midst of a savage wilderness to depend entirely upon their unassisted strength and hardihood"
Re: Mountain Man Monday 8/10 [Re: k snow] #8647130
08/10/26 08:44 AM
08/10/26 08:44 AM
Joined: Apr 2020
Iowa
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Squirt Offline
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Iowa
I don’t recall seeing powder horns in various lists of trade goods at the different trading posts etc so would I be correct to assume that each trapper made his own? Could a new one be made fairly quickly? They seem to have had a high rate of loosing their gear Making a few spare horns would probably be a way to help get through winter camp Great timing on this thread I will be at the museum at Chadron and then after Coyote Days over to Pinedale so will really be checking out the powder horns thanks

Re: Mountain Man Monday 8/10 [Re: Squirt] #8647135
08/10/26 08:49 AM
08/10/26 08:49 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
east central WI
k snow Offline OP
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k snow  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2009
east central WI
Originally Posted by Squirt
I don’t recall seeing powder horns in various lists of trade goods at the different trading posts etc so would I be correct to assume that each trapper made his own? Could a new one be made fairly quickly? They seem to have had a high rate of loosing their gear Making a few spare horns would probably be a way to help get through winter camp Great timing on this thread I will be at the museum at Chadron and then after Coyote Days over to Pinedale so will really be checking out the powder horns thanks


I have not found a single reference to Trappers, or anyone on the frontier, making their own horns. It is interesting to see that there just aren't that many on the trade lists at all.
Some people think that maybe they were included in the price of the powder.
Most of the horns on the frontier were simple cow horn styles, mass produced in the East. Some production took place in St. Louis.
They were simple horns, plain bodies with very simple spout designs. Nothing like the fancy mid to late 18th century horns.

Enjoy your time out West. Those two museums are hands down some of the best places to visit for Mountain Man type history.


"in the midst of a savage wilderness to depend entirely upon their unassisted strength and hardihood"
Re: Mountain Man Monday 8/10 [Re: k snow] #8647142
08/10/26 09:15 AM
08/10/26 09:15 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
east central WI
k snow Offline OP
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k snow  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2009
east central WI
Here's a link to the 1836 list of goods carried West by the Rocky Mountain Outfit.
It lists 80 powder horns, near the end of the list.

1836 List of Merchandise to Rendezvous

It is curious that the list of merchandise for 1837, one year later, only lists $8.00 paid for powder horns.

1837 List of Merchandise to Rendezvous

Here are two lists for the Upper Missouri Outfit, which list a total of 250 powder horns.

Upper Missouri Outfit Lists 1835


"in the midst of a savage wilderness to depend entirely upon their unassisted strength and hardihood"
Re: Mountain Man Monday 8/10 [Re: k snow] #8647143
08/10/26 09:21 AM
08/10/26 09:21 AM
Joined: Feb 2008
NE Indiana
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Larry Hall Offline
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NE Indiana
Thank you for my Monday Fix!!

Re: Mountain Man Monday 8/10 [Re: Larry Hall] #8647155
08/10/26 10:02 AM
08/10/26 10:02 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
east central WI
k snow Offline OP
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k snow  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2009
east central WI
Originally Posted by Larry Hall
Thank you for my Monday Fix!!


You're very welcome.


"in the midst of a savage wilderness to depend entirely upon their unassisted strength and hardihood"
Re: Mountain Man Monday 8/10 [Re: k snow] #8647163
08/10/26 10:42 AM
08/10/26 10:42 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Oregon
beaverpeeler Offline
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Oregon
Good stuff..for once I've nothing to add! LOL


My fear of moving stairs is escalating!
Re: Mountain Man Monday 8/10 [Re: k snow] #8647173
08/10/26 11:36 AM
08/10/26 11:36 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
S.C. Montana
M
MTtraps Offline
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S.C. Montana
These articles always make for a good Monday. Thanks for the time taken posting them

Re: Mountain Man Monday 8/10 [Re: k snow] #8647314
08/10/26 08:24 PM
08/10/26 08:24 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Minnesota
Woodsloafer72 Offline
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Minnesota
Interesting info, ksnow. Thank you.

So me having half a dozen horns full of powder isn't anything unusual, unlike what my wife tells me.

Re: Mountain Man Monday 8/10 [Re: Woodsloafer72] #8647318
08/10/26 08:41 PM
08/10/26 08:41 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
east central WI
k snow Offline OP
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k snow  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2009
east central WI
Originally Posted by Woodsloafer72
Interesting info, ksnow. Thank you.

So me having half a dozen horns full of powder isn't anything unusual, unlike what my wife tells me.


That sounds completely normal to me. At least one for every gun, right?


"in the midst of a savage wilderness to depend entirely upon their unassisted strength and hardihood"
Re: Mountain Man Monday 8/10 [Re: k snow] #8647344
08/10/26 09:58 PM
08/10/26 09:58 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Minnesota
Woodsloafer72 Offline
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Minnesota
Sure......I've got one for my .40, one for my .54, and four for my trade gun. For my trade gun I also have my shooting bag with one horn, 5 lbs. of shot, and about 20 balls, along with 10 lbs of shot, 5 lbs of lead, extra wadding, and a ball mold and the other three horns of powder. All ready to grab if I need to leave fast.

I guess I can be a little jumpy. Wife tells me I'm paranoid.

Re: Mountain Man Monday 8/10 [Re: Woodsloafer72] #8647345
08/10/26 10:00 PM
08/10/26 10:00 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
east central WI
k snow Offline OP
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k snow  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2009
east central WI
Originally Posted by Woodsloafer72
Sure......I've got one for my .40, one for my .54, and four for my trade gun. For my trade gun I also have my shooting bag with one horn, 5 lbs. of shot, and about 20 balls, along with 10 lbs of shot, 5 lbs of lead, extra wadding, and a ball mold and the other three horns of powder. All ready to grab if I need to leave fast.

I guess I can be a little jumpy. Wife tells me I'm paranoid.


Its not paranoid if you KNOW they are out to get you. LOL.

I've got a bag and horn for each gun. My 36, two 50s, a 54, a fowler and a fusil.


"in the midst of a savage wilderness to depend entirely upon their unassisted strength and hardihood"
Re: Mountain Man Monday 8/10 [Re: k snow] #8647348
08/10/26 10:06 PM
08/10/26 10:06 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Minnesota
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Minnesota
That's probably more normal laugh I've kept a pack ready to go since I was about ten. Don't really know why, just always figured I needed to be ready to head for the hills at any moment.

Re: Mountain Man Monday 8/10 [Re: k snow] #8647350
08/10/26 10:09 PM
08/10/26 10:09 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Minnesota
Woodsloafer72 Offline
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Prior to the mountain man era I seem to recall a reference to Simon Kenton working on a horn in one of his camps in Caintuck

Re: Mountain Man Monday 8/10 [Re: k snow] #8647451
08/11/26 08:39 AM
08/11/26 08:39 AM
Joined: Mar 2012
meadowview, Virginia
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EdP Offline
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meadowview, Virginia

From the Ferris quote:
Quote
He left his powder
horn, shot pouch, belt, and knife at the field of death, which will account for his want of success,
when endeavoring to kindle a fire;


This is the second occasion I have read of powder being used/needed for a mtn man to make a fire. The first I believe was in The Adventures of Capt. Bonneville. On one of his travels to the mouth of the Columbia they were very low on powder and mentioned reserving what little they had to make their fires. A friendly Indian chief gifted them a full horn. So no char cloth or punk wood in use it seems, and no bow drill skills learned from the Indians. Do you have other references on fire making?

Re: Mountain Man Monday 8/10 [Re: EdP] #8647452
08/11/26 08:50 AM
08/11/26 08:50 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
east central WI
k snow Offline OP
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k snow  Offline OP
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Originally Posted by EdP

From the Ferris quote:
Quote
He left his powder
horn, shot pouch, belt, and knife at the field of death, which will account for his want of success,
when endeavoring to kindle a fire;


This is the second occasion I have read of powder being used/needed for a mtn man to make a fire. The first I believe was in The Adventures of Capt. Bonneville. On one of his travels to the mouth of the Columbia they were very low on powder and mentioned reserving what little they had to make their fires. A friendly Indian chief gifted them a full horn. So no char cloth or punk wood in use it seems, and no bow drill skills learned from the Indians. Do you have other references on fire making?


I'll use that as a topic for next week. There should be a number of references on that. In addition to using powder, they also usually kept their flint and steel kits in their shooting bags/shot pouches.


"in the midst of a savage wilderness to depend entirely upon their unassisted strength and hardihood"
Re: Mountain Man Monday 8/10 [Re: k snow] #8647538
08/11/26 12:33 PM
08/11/26 12:33 PM
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meadowview, Virginia
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EdP Offline
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Quote
I'll use that as a topic for next week. There should be a number of references on that. In addition to using powder, they also usually kept their flint and steel kits in their shooting bags/shot pouches.


I'm looking forward to it. Thanks for all your Mtn Man Monday posts.

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