I'm working on a lure and just started testing it out. On Monday I set up my camera and made a mock double dirt hole set. In the left hole is the lure in testing and in the right dirt hole is a very mild mouse bait I'm working on. Probably need to test separately but I'm trying to formulate to work together. I stopped by on my atv just to see if there is any action on the set and there is. I didn't actually stop but just drove by and I could still smell the lure with my nose. I'm going to give it a few more days and put the camera card and watch the results. It's a very sweet smelling lure but it's still going What's everyone's thoughts on strength and longevity?

Strength and longevity are good things as long as the attractiveness level is top shelf. For me they both take a back seat to attractiveness.
Now im sure there are some situations where too loud can be a negative when trying to catch the spooky/smarter/ educated ones. But the average trapper isnt going to play that game. Some will say to much odor is bad because a predator can get their fill of the odor from a distance that is farther back than the trap but from my experience on the average coyote if they REALLY like the formulation the more you put out the harder they will work the set. Ive actually tested this theory and posted about it using other makers commercial formulations. Im leery of a formulation where too much is a bad thing, to me that means its lacking up close real attraction. The exception is predator gland lure formulations. They do have the ability to make coyotes nervous if the odor of another predator is too strong and there obviously isn't one there.
For me it all starts with a high level of attraction. To build a good formulation you got know what is a high level of attraction. Longevity and strength is something you can tweak later if you need to but if the attraction isnt there building on those isn't going to help that much. Though from a marketing standpoint strength sells a lot of lure whether the attraction is really there or not.

Thanks for the excellent information. Attractiveness to the point of they can't live without it is what in really after. From what I'm able to pick up on well aged spring male muskrat glands is very attractive to predators. I sure wish we had more of them around here.

I could see the point of not wanting a curiosity lure too strong/loud. If the attraction is pure curiosity, yes they could maybe satisfy that from a distance without getting to the trap. And I agree with Yes Sir on the gland lures. But in a food lure or a rolling type lure, if they are satisfied from a distance, the lure is a failure, regardless of strength or amount used. If the desired attraction is supposed to be to either to eat it or wear it, it should get them to the hole and trying to get the lure whether you use a pea sized dab or a gallon.

That being said, when I'm making sets, I generally subscribe to the less is more method. Probably because I am primarily a gland lure guy, and secondarily a curiosity lure guy when it comes to canines. Bait and food lures are the least used ammo in my arsenal, because I have the most inconsistent results with them. At times the "perfume" lures that they want to wear (rolling/rubbing response) work very well, but they are generally loud enough that no great quantity is needed, and may be detrimental by causing them to respond/roll before they get to the trap.

Good post bearcat, and everyone has their own twist on their approach and thinking. My personal thoughts is really anything beyond a straight food formulation and a straight gland lure is a curiosity formulation. Mink glands, muskrat glands, castor, fish oil, bto and a large majority of the ingredients i classify as curiosity. For me if they want to roll on it that is the strongest attraction you can get and most of the formulations i use better get that response or im not using it. But you got to know how to use it properly or you can get in trouble.The perfume stuff is some of the trickiest stuff i use in formulations. It has its place but it can be bad just as easy as it can be good if used incorrectly. Alot of my formulations have a bit of every "category" of ingredient in them if it makes the formulation more attractive i normally dont have no limitations on what goes in it. The exception is if im trying to develop a formulation for a very particular situation like a bite and pull or a formulation for the really shy/smart/ educated coyote.

From an aspect of “it’s to loud I don’t want to be near it”, or “burn their nose”, I don’t believe there is such a thing.

I’ve seen what they’ll eat, crawl in, roll on, etc.



From an aspect of “I’ve satisfied my curiosity from five feet away”, possibly. Although I would say that’s as much a problem of the smell not being attractive enough as it is “to loud”.

Agree with Boone....consider skunk for instance crack the lid on the bottle of skunk and it blows you away with the intensity.
However, apply it to your backing at the set and over night WE can't smell it due to molecular evaporation(?)....it's still there working though.
In colder temps, the smell is held down even more so....critters can detect though.

Coyotes routinely wade through piles of dead animals on a farm or ranch. They routinely crawl through piles of manure of any critter that produces it without batting an eye. I find it hard to believe they are going to run away from a bait because it's too strong. I don't buy into the "need to let it cool off" theory as to why I'm not getting any action at a particular set.

I think most of the "need to let it cool off" theory is surrounding human scent and reluctance to work sets because of it.

Application of lure into a hole or punched into a rebar hole etc. is impacted by its encapsulation in the soil. Soil has a interesting affect on lures and baits once it comes into contact with it. In my experience some soils seems to have a somewhat sterilizing and calming effect upon the initial odor applied.

Place some lure in a mock dirt hole, leave it a few days and go back and see what it smells like. Then leave it a week or more and go back and dig it up and smell the lured area once again. It can mellow significantly by our sense of smell then from when it was applied.

I realize animals have a more keen sense of developed sensory perception than we do as. But you get the point.

If I want to deodorize some buckets or trap packing totes I fill them with surface soil and some dried leaves and put the lids on for several days. Once I dump the fill dirt and leaves out I have some clean containers once again.

I do that with trap wax. Sits outside year round. I dump the leaves dust bugs out before melting. Low heat as it pops abit before all the rain water gets out.



I think your spot on

I’m not sure it’s so much about how loud it is, as more of what it is.
Seems like it doesn’t take long for a coyote to find a road killed deer around here. Same with vultures. To be able to pick up the odors on air currents and follow them to the source. That’s how scavengers make their living. Predators may hunt and kill prey, but some are also scavengers and they need to be able to pick up that food or other interesting odor in the air currents and follow it to your set.
I remember also reading a lot about what they perceive as food as what they perceive as other instincts. Raunchy putrid may invoke more of a rolling response in canines than food response. If that makes sense?
Jim

When I started making my own baits and lures, I started using a LOT more bait and lure at sets.

Not uncommon for me to get as much bait on my knife as I can, throw that down the hole, and than do it again!

When I started using more, I started catching more coyotes.

Maybe it’s a coincidence.

But I firmly believe coyotes can gauge how much of something is there, and will work harder/longer if they feel there is a substantial amount of whatever it is.

It’s like pre-baiting. I can use a roadkill deer and create a true destination location that will last even after the food runs out for some time. Because they got a full belly there once or three times.

If I do the same thing with like used cooking oil down a big auger hole, I may create a milling station, but it’s not likely to create that “destination location” coyotes will go out of there way to check regularly. At least not more than once.

I create the volume reward senario by using a generous amount of bait down a hole, with two smears of a lure of my choice for that time of year, on either side of the dirt hole.

Your hole needs to be substantial enough in size to give the impression there is a worthy reward down there. A rebar wobble hole won't cut it in trying to sell this to all coyote on average.

East and West.

I smear the lure into both sides of the dirt hole with a butter knife. I press it firmly so as not to be easily accessable. Works well for me until I see the need to change the process.

Hundreds of trailcam videos have shown me time and time again that canines find odors faster if applied at the ground surface vs down a hole.

I believe this is one of the reasons urine applied to the base of a backing at a dirthole set seems to increase catches. They simply find it faster.

If you look at the history of Carmans Canine Call you will find that originally Russ never intended it to be used at the set. Probably because at that time period many trappers thought a super loud lure would “burn their nose”. As time went on and trappers found great success using it at the set his advertisement changed.

There are reasons animals avoid lures and baits but I don’t believe odor strength is one of them.