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Mean while #8683174
11/03/26 03:19 PM
11/03/26 03:19 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
ND
M
MJM Offline OP
trapper
MJM  Offline OP
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M

Joined: Dec 2006
ND
MONTANA (KFYR) - A multi-year investigation by the Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks led to the seizure of over 100 mounts, antlers and horns valued at more than $36,000.

13 suspects from Montana, Washington, North Dakota, Wyoming and Indiana were charged with more than 80 violations in McCone County.

All but two pleaded guilty. The hunters have a combined 44-year ban from hunting in the state.

According to Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks, the hunters went to land owned by Kelly Nelson and hunted on it illegally over the past decade.

In a plea agreement, Nelson was fined and lost his Montana hunting privileges for eight years.


"Not Really, Not Really"
Mark J Monti
"MJM you're a jerk."
Re: Mean while [Re: MJM] #8683275
11/03/26 07:14 PM
11/03/26 07:14 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
The Hill Country of Texas
Leftlane Offline
"HOSS"
Leftlane  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2009
The Hill Country of Texas
Some of these stories are BS Mark. I know an ol man who married an Indian lady got in trouble because he paid his skinners in fresh beaver flesh. The write up was about an evil poaching ring and crimes against the lacy act.

If these ppl are guilty sure lets throw the book at them. If the shot an elk on Tuesday and the state says the should have done it on Sunday even on private land its crap.


What"s good for me may not be good for the weak minded.
Captain Gus McCrae- Texas Rangers


Re: Mean while [Re: Leftlane] #8683369
11/03/26 09:27 PM
11/03/26 09:27 PM
Joined: Nov 2012
midland, michigan
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midlander Offline
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Joined: Nov 2012
midland, michigan
Originally Posted by Leftlane
Some of these stories are BS Mark. I know an ol man who married an Indian lady got in trouble because he paid his skinners in fresh beaver flesh. The write up was about an evil poaching ring and crimes against the lacy act.

If these ppl are guilty sure lets throw the book at them. If the shot an elk on Tuesday and the state says the should have done it on Sunday even on private land its crap.

What do you mean 'if''...it appears they were convicted...thats guilty in my book (and in the court of law..)

Re: Mean while [Re: MJM] #8683386
11/03/26 09:38 PM
11/03/26 09:38 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
The Hill Country of Texas
Leftlane Offline
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Leftlane  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2009
The Hill Country of Texas
If you do not think yhe state and federalgovernments have criminalized acts that should be rights and prosecuted ppl who were simply defending themselves, their livestock, and feeding their families on PRIVATE land then I'm of the opinion that trying to ecplain anything to you would be a waste of my time! Quote someone else and continue to play dumb elsewhere next time you seem to be good at that.


What"s good for me may not be good for the weak minded.
Captain Gus McCrae- Texas Rangers


Re: Mean while [Re: MJM] #8683398
11/03/26 09:47 PM
11/03/26 09:47 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
MT
S
snowy Offline
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snowy  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2011
MT
Wow!!


Give me a fish, I will eat for a day. Teach me to fish, I will eat for a lifetime
Re: Mean while [Re: MJM] #8683399
11/03/26 09:48 PM
11/03/26 09:48 PM
Joined: Nov 2012
midland, michigan
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midlander Offline
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midland, michigan
Yeah, ill bet they needed to protect themselves from them big meanie elk and other critters...it was self defense. Get a grip....dirtbad poachers got caught, got convicted. And since when do you get to make up your own hunting regs on private land....SMH

Re: Mean while [Re: Leftlane] #8683402
11/03/26 09:52 PM
11/03/26 09:52 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
ND
M
MJM Offline OP
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MJM  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2006
ND
Originally Posted by Leftlane
If you do not think yhe state and federalgovernments have criminalized acts that should be rights and prosecuted ppl who were simply defending themselves, their livestock, and feeding their families on PRIVATE land then I'm of the opinion that trying to ecplain anything to you would be a waste of my time! Quote someone else and continue to play dumb elsewhere next time you seem to be good at that.

Some how a guy driving a $100,000.00 pickup and poaching anything is going to have a hard time convincing me it is to feed his family. I would poach a beef before I poached a deer, more meat better eating, easier to find and they will walk up to the PU. People in ND don't poach to feed their family. You can walk a block in town and see half a dozen Help Wanted signs. They are doing it for the thrill or money. If you have gas money to drive around half the night looking for a deer, you can but food.


"Not Really, Not Really"
Mark J Monti
"MJM you're a jerk."
Re: Mean while [Re: MJM] #8683427
11/03/26 10:23 PM
11/03/26 10:23 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
The Hill Country of Texas
Leftlane Offline
"HOSS"
Leftlane  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2009
The Hill Country of Texas
You might have more facts than I do and be right maybe they were bad guys. I am simply staying that on my property shooting critters I fed should be my biz and 25 years ago I saw a similar headline and it was a load of trumped up charges. Indians did not have casinos at the time so the ones willing to work as a skinner didn't ask for a lot of cash they wanted meat, skulls, and claws. The problem was that the fur buyer who had grown up on the same reservation had a family that had not kept up with the fed paperwork so in the eyes of tge state and feds he was a white man.

They basically did not make bartering a crime except that a "white man" feeding his half breed kids was suddenly the center of a poaching ring as they termed it.

I went to school with his kids, I sold him a lot of my fur and I have always been sickened by the way he was treated. Same goes for Randy Weaver's family and the women and children in the btsnch dividian compound that was burned down around them.


What"s good for me may not be good for the weak minded.
Captain Gus McCrae- Texas Rangers


Re: Mean while [Re: midlander] #8683437
11/03/26 10:29 PM
11/03/26 10:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Georgia
warrior Offline
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warrior  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2007
Georgia
Originally Posted by midlander
Originally Posted by Leftlane
Some of these stories are BS Mark. I know an ol man who married an Indian lady got in trouble because he paid his skinners in fresh beaver flesh. The write up was about an evil poaching ring and crimes against the lacy act.

If these ppl are guilty sure lets throw the book at them. If the shot an elk on Tuesday and the state says the should have done it on Sunday even on private land its crap.

What do you mean 'if''...it appears they were convicted...thats guilty in my book (and in the court of law..)


Easy to say when you've never faced a jury with the possiblity of decades of prison and tens of thousands on fines plus tens of thousands of lawyers fees facing an all powerful prosecution with no limit on funding. All while knowing that there are no "pro bono" or civil rights groups willing to take on the case in the name of rights.

Wildlife crimes are almost always plea bargained out.


[Linked Image]
Re: Mean while [Re: MJM] #8683445
11/03/26 10:49 PM
11/03/26 10:49 PM
Joined: Apr 2020
New Mexico
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New Mexico
After finishing military service in the 70s I trapped for a living and did depredation work for the wardens here and worked with them on poaching cases. Various studies over the years here in NM have shown that only 10% of wildlife violations are observed and/or reported. In my work with wildlife LEOs I learned that is very difficult to get a wildlife poacher convicted. Only 5% of the reported/observed cases were ever successfully prosecuted including ones I personally observed and reported. By my country boy math that means that at least here in NM a poacher has a 99.5% chance of getting away with his/her crime. The poacher trapping in a closed area and killing a pet dog that cost us public land trapping here was charged with over 30 violation counts, taken to court twice and was never convicted on a single count. He wasn't some rich person either, but his lady lawyer was better than what the state and feds had. I can tell you from firsthand experience the cream of the crop lawyer wise don't work for the government. Poachers are criminals and always have an excuse like any criminal for their crimes. Defending them just ends up costing law abiding citizens their rights and privileges. Innocent people don't plead guilty.

Re: Mean while [Re: MJM] #8683450
11/03/26 11:08 PM
11/03/26 11:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Georgia
warrior Offline
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warrior  Offline
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Georgia
Innocent people plea bargain every day.


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Re: Mean while [Re: MJM] #8683456
11/03/26 11:30 PM
11/03/26 11:30 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
The Hill Country of Texas
Leftlane Offline
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Leftlane  Offline
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The Hill Country of Texas
Good point also intelligent ppl can think for themselves and don't need to be spoon fed propaganda. Mark I dont care how nice of pickup a man has if he owns land and the wildlife eat his forage I think the government should keep out. That was my point.


What"s good for me may not be good for the weak minded.
Captain Gus McCrae- Texas Rangers


Re: Mean while [Re: Leftlane] #8683500
11/04/26 05:44 AM
11/04/26 05:44 AM
Joined: Nov 2012
midland, michigan
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midlander Offline
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midland, michigan
Originally Posted by Leftlane
Good point also intelligent ppl can think for themselves and don't need to be spoon fed propaganda. Mark I dont care how nice of pickup a man has if he owns land and the wildlife eat his forage I think the government should keep out. That was my point.


Nah, just another weak excuse from ‘forage’ farmers. Lots of hunters and trappers looking for places to hunt. Farmers constantly whine about crop damage but when a hunter politely knocks on their door to hunt, a good majority come up with every reason in the world to say no.
You are right, intelligent people can think for themselves….this one’s a no-brainer.

Re: Mean while [Re: MJM] #8683611
11/04/26 08:36 AM
11/04/26 08:36 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
The Hill Country of Texas
Leftlane Offline
"HOSS"
Leftlane  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2009
The Hill Country of Texas
If the guys who knocked on my door werecas entitled as you are I think I would say no too. By weak excuse are you referring to any of the ressons I gave or just trying to pretend those examples of gov over reach did not exist? Or do you really have a problem with ranchers snd" forage farmers" other than they don't want you around?


What"s good for me may not be good for the weak minded.
Captain Gus McCrae- Texas Rangers


Re: Mean while [Re: MJM] #8683620
11/04/26 08:59 AM
11/04/26 08:59 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
ND
M
MJM Offline OP
trapper
MJM  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2006
ND
Leftlane is it over reach when they can write 80 violations in one county. I didn't see any thing that said they were land owners. Maybe I need to read it again, maybe it is how you justify poaching.


"Not Really, Not Really"
Mark J Monti
"MJM you're a jerk."
Re: Mean while [Re: MJM] #8683625
11/04/26 09:15 AM
11/04/26 09:15 AM
Joined: Jul 2016
Wisconsin
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Bear Tracker Offline
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Joined: Jul 2016
Wisconsin
I can see both sides here and have experienced both sides. I have no faith in the WI dnr and most of the wardens for multiple reasons. But at the same time I just spoke with a trapper who was fined and lost fur last year for a deal with multiple violations. The kicker he is doing the exact same thing again now. I have had multiple experiences with different law enforcement agencies in Canada and the US. Some good some and some pretty sketchy behaviors by law enforcement. My brother does taxidermy, completed a mount and shipped it overseas, the outfitter, hunter, and he missed one form, one! He was charged with a felony had to hire a high price attorney with background in dealing with these cases and eventually plea it down to a misdemeanor with a fine. Open fields doctrine is another issue of mine.

Last edited by Bear Tracker; 11/04/26 10:23 AM.
Re: Mean while [Re: MJM] #8683666
11/04/26 10:12 AM
11/04/26 10:12 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Pa
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Wright Brothers Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Pa
Left em kill a hundred before the bust.
Must be trophy herd reduction. Trouble makers,
throw em all in the bottom of the sea,
except maybe the calves.





Re: Mean while [Re: Leftlane] #8683679
11/04/26 10:49 AM
11/04/26 10:49 AM
Joined: Nov 2012
midland, michigan
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midlander Offline
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midland, michigan
Originally Posted by Leftlane
If the guys who knocked on my door werecas entitled as you are I think I would say no too. By weak excuse are you referring to any of the ressons I gave or just trying to pretend those examples of gov over reach did not exist? Or do you really have a problem with ranchers snd" forage farmers" other than they don't want you around?


Lefty, guess you don’t like anyone criticizing your opinion….the left acts like that also. Nothing entitled on my end, I’ve earned what I have, including my own hunting ground. I don’t rely on farmers but I sure have heard them whine about crop damage and in the same breath talk about sending young hunters packing when they knock on the door. I’m guessing Mark is correct, it’s just you justifying poaching.
However, let’s get back on topic and tell everybody what you know about this conviction that we must not know…you were quick to criticize it, now let’s here the facts to back it up…

Re: Mean while [Re: MJM] #8683681
11/04/26 10:51 AM
11/04/26 10:51 AM
Joined: Oct 2011
Idaho
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Idaho
Lefty is from Texas, where it is all private ground and the landowners are basically in control of the wildlife on their ground, same as their livestock. Unlike the rest of the country. I don't agree with that, or with farmers/ranchers getting money for crop damage/depredation UNLESS they have their ground open to the public to legally hunt/trap the damaging wildlife first. Other than that I am in complete agreement with him. I have seen way too many cases that are either trumped up, or so misreported as to be unrecognizable to what really happened. Whenever I see news articles or reports about poaching I take them with a very hefty grain of salt. Because you simply can't believe what is written.

And yes coytpr, Innocent people plead guilty every day, because it is much cheaper than trying to defend themselves and the consequences are generally much lighter than if they are found guilty, whether they are actually guilty or not. As a very good defense lawyer (who was a former prosecuting attorney) once told me, "it doesn't matter if you are guilty or not, all that matters is if the prosecutor thinks that they can convince a jury/judge that you might be guilty." It often is guilty until proven innocent, and it is often very difficult to prove yourself innocent. Because usually you had no idea you would have a need to prove what you were doing on a certain day years in the future.

Re: Mean while [Re: MJM] #8683691
11/04/26 11:08 AM
11/04/26 11:08 AM
Joined: Nov 2012
midland, michigan
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midland, michigan
Bearcat, I know the criminal justice system is far from perfect, but I’m a little old school. Unless someone has some real compelling information to be shared, Im gonna continue to believe that if someone is convicted by a judge or jury for violating, then they are a violator…period. I know some violations are worse than others, but they are violations. Sounds like a great bust to me and if I was a property owner in that neighborhood and that kind of crap was happening, I’d hope like heck they got busted…

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