I like my rifle to be able to do a 2 inch group at 100 yards to be able to go into the woods.

We bought 2 very popular rifles in the same .270 cal and neither one was any good. tried every ammo brand and variation we could find. changed the scopes, everything we could think of. Mine we got down to a 6 inch group off the bench. I'm not hunting with that. The other one is my Nephew's gun and we got that one down to a 4 inch group. he hunts with it and kills deer with it. I wouldn't be happy with it, but it works for him.

I always hunt with my muzzle loader which will make a 1 inch group at 100 yards.

^^^This!!

I've guided way too many guys with sub moa guns that couldn't hit the broadside of a barn offhand. Some of them would have difficulty hitting the barn from inside it!

Doesn't matter what the gun can do, what is important is what you can do with the gun. If you are shooting longer range, your max range should be as far as you can consistently hit the kill zone in field conditions... not as far as the gun you are using can, as far as YOU can with that gun.

I'm with 160 , I want one ragged hole at 100yards from a 3 shot group

I have gotten rid of a Remington 700 in 30/06 becuse best u could get out of it after floating the barrel and working up loads was 3/4" but that was its best and being honest it was an 1.25 - to 1.5" gun after around 850 rounds I put through it. Plenty good enough for deer inside 300 yards especially when 90% plus deer in my area are shot sub 80 yards. But at the time I was wanting that .27" 5 shot group every time. I traded that nice thin barrel light weight easy packing rifle for a bible verse Acog scope. And then had a semi custom 260 rem built on a trued rem 700 action. And I had my one hole 100 yard group shooting rifle. That was long heavy and not fun to pack around.

When I changes optics from the 3x9 to the 4x acog on one of my AR's i could no longer hit dimes with it every shot like I could but I was still between a nickel and quarter. And that was good enough for coyotes with most of my shots inside 200 yards.

One hole groups are fun and I like accuracy. But not every gun needs to be able to shoot the fleas off a coyot to be suitable for the job. And I have found typically those that talk about shooting and accuracy the most tend to not shoot very much and are only talking about their best 3 shot group of rhe day off a good rest and rear support. All the larger groups are all not spoken of. This give other the impression they need a half inch shooting gun to kill a dear with 8" kill zone at 80 yards or thay are not ethical And thats not anywhere close to being true.

Are we talking 3 shot groups 5, 10, counting all shots or claiming I pulled that one so discounting it from the group size there ia a lot of assumptions unless the the methods are spelled out.

I dont shot sub moa with any of my handguns but still have killed deer over a hundred yards with a supper red hawk in 44mag. Thats ok for a handgun as well as a rifle. Standards shouldn't change or thats being hypocritical at least to me.

Ive got a few rifles and have shot many others and i have a few rifles that will shoot small and i agree with PF most guys count only their best group and disregard all the others or blame the bigger groups on themselves. Giving themselves a misguided view of what their guns really shoot. 1 moa factory rifles are rarer than a lot of people think especially with factory ammo. One 3 shot group under 1 moa doesn't make it a sub moa gun by my standards. Some people will do the same when evaluating their own shooting skillls.

I've killed a mountain of deer with a peep sighted 30-30... a hundred yards or a little more is a chip shot for it and that's mostly off hand or supported by a tree if close enough..Most of the deer were 50 - 75 yards, some 50 feet, lol
I frankly don't know what the 100 yard group is, I'm guessing it's under 3 inches, from a bench less than that... it works..

I have a friend who's hunted all over the world, has taken a ton of stuff, exotic to normal, can't shoot to save his life, if he's around or under 6" he's happy...it's not his gun, it's him..it works for him too.

I am so lucky to live in Alaska. The kill zone on a moose is about 2 1/2 feet in diameter!

3" - 4" at 100 yds offhand, standing, unsupported should get the job done.

That other 3" - 4" of that pie plate that comes when you're in the field, pushing through brush and you just jumped that thirty pointer out of its bed, you're on the wrong lead foot and all you see is that white tail lazily bouncing across the hillside putting distance between you and him. You're out of breath, your heart is racing, and that seven pound carbine feels like it weighs a short ton. You're rushing to align them sights or find the deer in that scope you never turned back down in magnification from your time at the range.

Pie plate recommendations come from the size of a deer's vitals.

And that why we aim to shoot the X out of that 100 yard target, off a bench, off sandbags. Because the rifle is always capable, but depending on circumstances the shooter may not be.

what ever distance you can keep on the 6 inch target is the distance you set as your limit.

Me personally, scoped rifle at 100 yds, 3 shot group of 1-1.5" I call it good. Peeps or irons at 50 yds, 3 shots in 3-4" is about as good as I can see to do.

Sometimes the rifle or the load won't shoot that good. Sometimes the shooter can't shoot that good.

I've helped a lot of guys and gals sight stuff in and everyone's different.

Leaning over a car hood resting on a rolled up jacket in a gravel pit is different than on a bench with a rifle in a lead sled or blocks.

If you haven't seen these, they are pretty informative. It started with a single cold bore shot from a hunting rifle at 1 MOA (5 inch) target at 500 yards, and failure rate was near 100%, so relaxed conditions and failure rate is still high. And these are best shooters around, with tricked out rifles.

So quick and dirty way to duplicate this test.......fill up a 2 liter soda bottle with water, lay it on it's side and shoot at the bottom end. That is about the size of target you need to hit. One cold bore shot from whatever conditions and distance you are shooting from. When you can hit that every single time, you are good to go.

Depends on the rifle. A semi-auto, pump, or lever will not typically shoot as accurately as a bolt action. I suppose there are exceptions. A mountain rifle or featherweight with a very thin barrel will not normally group as well as a standard or varmint barrel.

Let's assume the shooter is shooting off a bench with a proper rest, rather than from the tailgate of a pickup.

A bolt rifle should group within 2" to satisfy me. Less is better.

I assume we are talking about scoped rifles. A small group from iron sights will be more difficult. I think "see-through" rings create cheek weld problems for most people.

A fellow showed up for a guided deer hunt in northern Idaho about 10 years ago with a Mod 100 Winchester in 308. It carried a very cheap scope. The hunter said he borrowed the rifle from someone. The guide had a modest range of about 75 yards. The rifle shot a minute of dinner plate at the best and jammed after every other shot. Upon examination, the crosshairs were not in focus, and we could see double when looking through the scope. Nothing could bring it into focus. That hunt wasn't cheap. Why, please tell me, would someone bring such a rifle and never even shoot it before arriving in camp?

Wolfie we have seen some of your groups. So 4 inch at 100 yards would good for you.
Bench rest anchored at both ends. Load or ammo that will perform in that rifle. 1 inch should be the goal. THEN if you are hunting it's not the gun it's the shooter if you miss. ANY caliber deer rifle if it didn't shoot a 1.5 inch group id sell.it. NOW with that said I've owned 3 700 BDL and 1 out of the 3 will be the out flyer. 2 shots touching , with one high to the right . BUT still in the 1.5 area if the correct load/ bullet is found. I've had or zeroed 4 savage axis. 243 , 270, 6.5 . OUT of the box they are unbelievable accurate. 243 liked Remington 100 gr. 270 fed 130 gr.6.5 hornady ammo.243 my son had was all 3 shots in the same hole at 100. 270 1inch group. BUT hated remington ammo. 3 in group. Some time you may only have a softball size opening to put the bullet through. Big buck I killed last year was at 213 yards and all i could see was shoulder high right behind the front leg. Shooting out of a box blind i'll take that shot every day.....

against my better judgement I'll take that as a joke

1 inch group at 100 yards

Wolfie it made me laugh too

2-3 in group at 100 yards, but I’m out west taking longer shots (longest has been 425 yds)

I need a rifle that can do its job with me doing my part at the range as a baseline. I know what I personally want to see on the target at the range, but not everyone can do what I do at the range.
Each hunter has to know what they and their rifle are capable of doing at the range and write it down.
Then keep in mind that the group is going to open up significantly in most hunting situations for numerous reasons such as being out of ideal position when the shot needs to be taken or being winded from a long hike.
If your pie plate at 100 yards looks like you shot it with buckshot, imagine what it will look like in a hunting situation. Likely it will be suitable for drinking soup out of. If that is the case, don't fool yourself and limit your shots to 50 yards. Your freezer will be just as full by the end of season.

You guys must be peace poor shots! Seems everyone I know keeps them all in a dime at 100 yds. Never seen them do it but they say they do. My ex son in law couldn't miss a dime at 100 yards. He shoots a 3006 with a 3-9 scope. HA. Good thread!

not the shooter…