Originally Posted By: Nightwish
Phil, despite our past issues, I have the utmost respect for your trapping ability and drive..ambition. It is an ambition that few of us have..and you still push even at an age when many cannot or will not. I will always call you the Iron Man of fox trapping...

But why is it you so often refuse to talk or comment on deep and intelligent topics like this one? I mean, heck...no one is asking for secrets...just simple comments from someone who does well in fox trapping....whats your take on lures baits and urine?


I will state publicly why.
First,I have helped literaly hundreds,mabe even thousands to catch fox,and other animals,over many years.Likely ,I have caught more fox than anybody in thiis area for 25 years,except 2 years.I earned it the hard way,in things you have absolutly zero knowledge about.I won't sell my soul for a couple of bucks,and I wont give certian knowledge away because I don't owe it to anybody.Nobody.No one.Im not here to appear like im mr knowledge,or a know it all.Im not here to be popular.Im here to interact,and be friends with those I like,and enjoy being around.In the days you were a toddler,and before,I was trapping with little knowledge,verble,written,and otherwise,because it wasn't avalibe,as it should be.I became what I am because I learned it the hard way,the best way.Teaching the basics is just fine,and I have done it often,so often cause its the right thig to do.But beyound that,everyone is on their own.Kids,and others these days want everything handed to them,and if it is,they become worthless,and what they have obtained become meaningless.

I can say that at no time have I ever said im the best,im the greatest,or any such thing ever.I only ever stated the facts that happened that you called me a liar,a thief,a furbuyer,or I spiked my catch with previous years fox---all of which was not true.You did this for at least 4 years for the whole world to see,and hear,,,,,,simply because you could not comprehend the possibility that it could be done.You caught 300 fox in nearly 60 days trapping full time,good for you,wooopie,I can name several that caught 150 in half the time,working a full time job.And thats all fine and good,all of it,but you come on here with your referances to "studys" of this,and that,its all horse crap.Don't need them studys to catch fox.It took me ten years to catch my first fox,at least but it got done,and I took it from there.Imagine that.You talk of the greatness of peatmoss,you did not start using peat till mid last year,after another drilled it into your thick head.Now your an expert on the subject.That OK,just makes me sick thats all.All this intelligent talk garbage to me is bolony,im not real intellengent,I just like to talk to other trappers about anything at all,don't have no need to talk intelligent about trapping.
Running out of braincells,and im hungry,have a lot of other things to say but its not worth it.

Well said Phil. With the numbers you have put up you dont need to prove anything to anyone!!

Kids,and others these days want everything handed to them,and if it is,they become worthless,and what they have obtained become meaningless.

I agree with Phil on this one...

..and its your choice if you want to talk about stuff or not...

KY Country asked...Asa, How many sets do you put in an area, and how big of an area are we talking about?

Depending upon the amount of sign in the area, I generally make two or three dirthole sets all lured with the same lure (a lure with a food/hunger element) which is appropriate for hole sets and one scent post or blind scent set lured with a completely different odor (a urine/gland/passion lure) which is appropriate for sets without holes all within a 100' radius. Asa

Very well spoken, PSB. I don't know anything about you but have had some thoughts about you simply being some mean old man. Didn't know about the stuff that I just read in your post. I'm sorry I thought bad about you..You're right, self taught is one of the most meaningful ways to learn anything.

Good grief youngone,im just short of 50,and am not mean,mostly.

Asa,

With a normal temp of 32* how far do you think you can draw a fox or coyote with a normal dose of a good lure? Lets say with normal eye appeal and location..

How about at 0*?

Would it matter if it's fox or coyote?

Amen Phil.But I've got to disagree,not intelligent my ###.You may not be booksmart or an english major but you're darn sure smart enough.Its woodsmarts that catch fox anyhow not fancy writing or being wordy.I agree with everthing else you said.

Phils not old! I meet him at the Maryland convention when fishguts was there. One look at phil and you can tell he is a [Please excuse my language... I'm an idiot] of a worker! He is a sculpted man that didn't get that way about thinking about doing something "HE did it" Phil I love your pics and vids.

What really catches foxes is long traplines and lots of fox and hard work. There is no big secret and believe it or not its not brain surgery. Some trappers have just as much drive and time as Brown puts into his trapping, but can only muster 200 fox instead of 1200. Why is that you ask? Because Mr. Brown has MOOOOOOOOOOOOOORE fox to trap. Period end of story, its not his bladder pee or trail cams, its large populations. So if nightwish and phil could kiss and make up we can have some intelligent conversation.

Good post Mike..and I agree...

There's a fine gentleman just east of here who takes 150 to 200 fox a year on 8-12 farms...just screwing around on his way to work. I dont have those numbers. we always have to look at apples to apples.

I dont kiss guys..so sorry, no kissing and making up. But the war is over...both bulls are in their own pasture and the graze is aplenty. So is the amount of good info on this thread...

Nobody else in mr Brown's neighborhood is posting numbers like his, why do you suppose that is I am guessing it is because of mr browns work ethic, experience and smarts.
If you reread mr browns post I think you will see why things are the way they are.
Me personally I bought a couple of mr crawfords videos before I had heard of him, big mistake still mad about it.

I have a question for Asa...

You mentioned in a post a few years ago, about a study of coyotes where they used one drop of urine in a gal of water inside a room with fresh carpet. They turned loose some coyote pups to see hwo they'd react to the different bottles of water with urine in it.

Can you tell us about that again? Do you remember that one?

Nightwish asked...
Asa,

With a normal temp of 32* how far do you think you can draw a fox or coyote with a normal dose of a good lure? Lets say with normal eye appeal and location..

I practice the theory that if one can't learn to place sets within 50 feet of where animals pass they will not rack up significant numbers. That being said, I have seen by tracks in the sand and snow of both fox and coyote make abrupt turns directly into a set from about 100 yards or so.

How about at 0*?

I've seen tracks in the snow making abrupt turns from 100 feet or so even by bobcats in that temperature. University studies concluded that cats can smell at least 25 times better than humans and canines can smell at least 400 times better than humans. Using that math along with seeing solid evidence of bobcats detecting lure at 100 feet in sub zero temperatures a canine should be able to come in from 800 feet. Whether it actually works that way is pure speculation because I believe it would be a rare instance when a canine would turn from its days agenda to come 800 feet over to investigate any odor.

Would it matter if it's fox or coyote?

No, I think they both smell equally well.
Asa

This has been a good thread so far and I don't want to start any problems.

Phil, Asa, Bob J., Paul, Myself, and a host of others who have spent a lifetime of hard work, take time to answer alot of questions on this forum. They should not have to give answers if they feel that it is something that they don't want to share.
I share things that took me many years of 300+ days afield to learn. Countless other time and money used to learn about the habits of mature Whitetail Bucks. I have shared what I know about trapping and the ways in which I have made my catches.
However I will not share complete formulas for lures and baits and such. I also have a few secrets I keep to myself. It's called self preservation.

If I need to eat what I trap and hunt to survive do you think I'm gonna tell you all that I know? Sure Phil lives in and area that can support the amount of catches he makes. I lust to be able to have that in my area too. Yes some people could make some pretty good catches. But I've had people trap the same area's a few yards from me and I still caught more than them. I had to trap for a living for 2 years so I could put food on the table for my family. I'd go to bed many nights with tears in my eyes wondering how I was gonna feed my kids and myself feeling worthless. Do you think I'm gonna tell you everything I have learned?

It may seem to be a question that is what you consider simple. But if anyone doesn't want to share what they have learned then they are not bad people because of it. Here's how I would deal with Phil if I was in real need.

Hey Phil I need your help, I don't have any food on the table for my kids, can you watch me make a few sets and see if I can do something better? I have three traps do you think you could use one of mine and put it out on your line if you have time? Maybe I'm doing something wrong that you can't see me doing.

People might find that what they think is a simple answer to them might not be to someone else. Hey paul I need that Backbreaker formula so I can have some more lures to sell, sounds simple to me!

I think much has been said already on this post and that people just recieved alot of information. Use what you HAVE seen on here and USE that info. Be Glad you have a forum to go to for answers. I had to learn to hunt and trap the hard way. With no info and no one to show me how.

I give as much help to people that I can. I have givin away a few secrets to very few. I love to help people as much as I can but I won't tell everything I know except to my kids.

Without getting into lengthy detail, in effect a part of the test on canines smelling ability was to take one drop of coyote urine diluted with one gallon of pure water. Then they placed one drop of that diluted mixture on to a carpet and would let in a coyote pup. Every single pup was able to instantly find that one drop spot and urinate on it. The conclusion was that canines can smell a minimum of 400 times better than humans but perhaps they can smell millions of times better than we can. Asa

That's unreal! Glad they can't tell when I'm asleep, they might eat me! LOL

Thanks Asa...amazing stuff there. That was an eye opening post for me...no doubt.

High Noon, I agree..and wasnt trying to entice...just asking, thats all. We all give and take...and this is a great resource for trappers of all ages...

I wasn't trying to pick on YOU so to speak. Put it out there as a general reason some don't give out info. Were at four pages and many folks will read this post.

Agreed!