Dang ol Movie star sure gets me into a lot of messes.

First I would like to say that if I sat on my trap on a muddy bank, I would want mine center swiveled too. Could loose your wallet if it was attatched to side and pants tore. lol

As the movie star said, this discussion always opens a can of worms, and then how do you get all them worms back into the can in the end.

My reasoning is a bit difficult to explain, but here goes again:

Reaction times when a trap first fires is to immediately jerk away. Even I do that when I accidently catch my fingers in a trap. Since I usually wear leather gloves, I have often just pulled my fingers out of the glove, unless one of my boney knuckles will not clear the jaws. Mentioning this, only to let you know what got me thinking along these lines, because the longer my fingers were in the traps, the more impossible it was to pull out of the glove.

Now if you wrap a rubber band around your finger real tight, it is easy to just pull on the wad of rubber and roll it off your finger tip. However if you leave it on there several minutes, it will not roll off, and you will need to pick at it and find one strand to stretch and pull off end of finger to get rest of the rubber band off. The flesh swells and takes "a set" around the rubber band.

I believe that the flesh around a trap jaws is same as around the rubber band. In other words it takes "A SET" around the jaws.

So now it is a wet or snow covered morning, when animal's feet are wet and hair is slick.

When trap first fires, the animals react and jerk away or jump away-----center swiveled trap, the pull is straight out of the trap, but off set attatchment, the foot pulls towards opposite corner of the trap, instead of out of the trap. And of course, too, there is some slight difference if the jaws are round or square, but only very slight difference, and that is another can of worms to be opened, so will let that one lay for now.

Bottom line in the end, is that if just fur trapping the difference is so minor that it really is not worth all the fuss to worry about it all, but if spending months attempting to catch that one smart animal, and then have it escape when you do manage to get ahold of it, because it managed to jerk out of the trap, that slight difference becomes extremely important.

Anyway, that is my reasoning, and when I did attach my chain to side instead of center, it soon became apparent that I had much less toe caught animals with side attatchment than with direct center attatchment.

Sorry for the long explanation, but I know no other way to help someone else understand my thoughts about this subject.

Of course when your new trap hits the market, none of this will matter. Thanks for splainin it to us Slim.

Thanks Slim now it makes more sense with that explination . Sometimes can't see the forest for the trees in my way .

Drifter

I agree with k9,from what i have seen when that new trap hits none of this will matter. Dang i would like to get my hands on some of them before dec.

Dang ol Wannabe reporter cop anyway, you would bring that up, just to prove that even I do not always do what I say to do. The new trap WILL be center swiveled, but that is because of the rotating jaws, which throws yet another set of physic laws into the equation.

Butch: I would love to get my hands on some before then too. lol

rereading what I had wrote above, I realize that I did not finish explaining: After the animal makes that initial reaction pull away, and foot slides towards side instead of pulling out, the animal will put the foot back onto the ground, and then bite at the trap, turning this way and that way---all giving time to let the flesh take that "set" around the trap.

Great stuff thus far!

Any truth to the rumor that an animal can get a foot on one of the levers and release pressure off his foot somewhat easier with the center swivel?

~ADC~

i think someones been thinking waaaaaaaaaaaaaay to hard about toecaught coyotes escaping, or they are using incredibly weak springs.

I'm not even smart and I can tell the physics of the new trap will not be comparable to "normal" traps. I have not seen a coyote in one yet but I am guessing that you would want evrything to remain "centered" with that trap. Also my common sense tells me a toe catch with work it's way into a foot catch the more the coyote moves around and steps down on it.

So if you were too tired to adjust or bed your trap properly then a side swivel may save 1 out of 100 yotes?

You guys better run out and buy all those new KB traps that get tighter when the animal takes that initial run.

The initial lunge is lessened by a 9-12" chain. How much speed can a yote build up in a foot? Not much, especialy when you figure they will run away from the site. Front foot catch will mean that he is going to run out of chain quick and take a nose dive in the dirt. Then as suggested above he can bite the trap or try another lunge. The die hard yote trappers also feel the need to add shock springs, which will lessen the force even more. The next argument is the verticle lunge. This is also reduced by a short chain. Todays disposables of the proper length don't pump out. I like bobcats more than yotes but I set everything expecting it to handle a yote. They get into bobcats sets also.

Glad I didn't stay up any later last night waiting for an answer.
You guys have more trapping experience maybe, but I disagree with the side swivel idea.

The other thing I read is the cost of center swiveling/base plating 300 traps. You can order the individual kits which is expensive or spend about the same amount of money on a press and cut your metal to length and make your own plates and just order the D rings. When your done you have spent some money but now you have one more tool in the shop. How many years will a quality trap last? After you "trick" them out the only thing left is pan adjustment each year(and after catches) and replace springs as needed. Unless your one of those guys that sells his equipment every year. The price of a good trap goes up almost yearly so its smart just to keep your equipment.

Sorry I got long winded,

haus

Great stuff thus far!

Any truth to the rumor that an animal can get a foot on one of the levers and release pressure off his foot somewhat easier with the center swivel?

~ADC~


Eastern coyotes are notorious for this. It is simply because they are so darn smart.
Mac

I just knew this one was gonna hit a 100+ posts and be archieves bound...good info from people that know.

It takes time...
It cost money...
I don't see the logic in it so why do it?
I mod my chains, (link chain, 6 inches with 4 or 5 swivel points), pans are level and night latched. Every trap I own is exactly the way I want it or it doesn't get set. I'll change a trap if there is the slightest issue at a set. If I don't like the trap I get a different trap.
I'm just not going to do a modification to a trap because the masses, or intuition says so. Too many things in this world are counter-intuitive so I don't trust intuition, sometimes. I would rather trust facts.

To quote Mr. Pedersen, "Bottom line in the end, is that if just fur trapping the difference is so minor that it really is not worth all the fuss to worry about it all..."

I'm not a coyote trapper, but like everyone else, I will be sooner then I would choose. I know enough to listen to experienced Coyote trappers who have spent time considering the difference of a modification like this. Mr. Pederson isn't the only voice in the storm...
I actually have cut the D-rings off modified traps and gone back to the end frame J-hook or bottom side attachment.

This is one of the great debates...

You stick your finger in one of my yote traps it aint coming out no matter where you pull from. At least thats my fingers opinion. Its been there a few times. LOL

Dugout,
You have your traps the way you want, then there is no reason to complain about the price to modify them. Your not going to do it anyway. Don't change what works for you. Didn't mean to pull your chain either. One mans $1 bill is another mans $20. What I think is cheap may be really expensive to the next guy.

haus

I feel like dumping my box of traps out and getting them ready now, lol.

haus

Any truth to the rumor that an animal can get a foot on one of the levers and release pressure off his foot somewhat easier with the center swivel?

This came from the coon trappers as the coon may stand up on the levers while pulling up against the trapped foot and accidentally release himself.

Dugout, when the coyotes do finally become your target if you catch enough of them your thoughts on base plates will change. I didn't base plate any of my traps because its what the mass's are doing, i started doing it after every trap i owned ended up warped up!

K9 wolfers were the worst of the bunch, not from coyotes jerking on them but from 4 real strong springs on them, in time they begin to warp the frame. Doubt you need a four coiled trap to hold a wimpy red fox though so not an issue for you, YET, lol.

You didn't pull my chain. This is a good debate. Cost may be a deterrent but it isn't really the deciding factor. If I thought I would hold one more critter, and not lose more critters I would do it in a blink. That is what summer is for, right?

Glad to hear you enjoy debate. When I started I read and heard that you modify your trap for yotes since they get into anything. Only draw back to a tricked out trap so far is that a grey fox in a fully modified #2 will break something in a hurry. Checking traps very early in the morning helps, but the little greys don't do as good in a heavy trap. Bobcats in my area do just fine with modified #2's and #3's. I'm still hoping someday to have a mountain lion step in a fully modified bridger #3 and see how she holds up to that abuse.

haus

The little #1 northwoods double coil was about the friendliest trap there ever was for grey fox, they not made out of much, grey fox that is, not the trap, lol.

Haven't had too many problems though with double laminated 2's.

I cant see an animal consistantly being able to put a paw down on a lever to release pressure myself. Every great once in a while possibly but not with any consistancy. I feel funny even replying to this as Im sure Im not saying anything that hasnt already been said. Anyway I like center swiveling for a stright pull and also I believe swiveling from a D-ring is a better swiveling point than a J-hhok in the corner anyway. You have two swiveling points instead of one and I have had a j-hook in the corner get clogged up a great deal more than a bottom center swiveled trap. Thats my exp anyway....