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I Guess We're Not The Only Ones #4907715
02/11/15 04:13 PM
02/11/15 04:13 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,273
mequon, wisconsin
P
Paul Winkelmann Offline OP
trapper
Paul Winkelmann  Offline OP
trapper
P

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,273
mequon, wisconsin
A competitor came to collect a bill from one of his customers. She said, "I'm not paying", and slammed the door in his face. After

much pounding the technician said, "Okay, I'm taking the closure off and putting the raccoon back in." I short time later the

police showed up and escorted him from the property. My question is this: does the technician have a right to remove the closure

since it's not paid for? ( And it is nice to know that we are not the only company that gets losers for clients )

Re: I Guess We're Not The Only Ones [Re: Paul Winkelmann] #4907737
02/11/15 04:29 PM
02/11/15 04:29 PM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 0
Finger Lakes Region, NY
Nic Pallo Offline
trapper
Nic Pallo  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 0
Finger Lakes Region, NY
I would not of threatened it, would of just put the ladder up
Pulled off my work
And let the coon go
With that said, I tend to charge my fees up front to avoid this.

Re: I Guess We're Not The Only Ones [Re: Paul Winkelmann] #4907743
02/11/15 04:35 PM
02/11/15 04:35 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 6
Luray,VA
M
Mike Hurley Offline
trapper
Mike Hurley  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 6
Luray,VA
my contract reads that the "material" belongs to the company until paid for in full, I think that this is all in the way the contract is wriiten

Last edited by Mike Hurley; 02/11/15 04:37 PM.
Re: I Guess We're Not The Only Ones [Re: Paul Winkelmann] #4907757
02/11/15 04:44 PM
02/11/15 04:44 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,309
WA
Vinke Offline
trapper
Vinke  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,309
WA
Will not hold up,,,,,,,,,

My contract says $35 after 10 days,,,,,,,,250 aprx lien fee and 18 percent

Someday they will sell............

we started tearing a roof back off in CA in the 80's and spent 3 nights in jail until we could see the judge on monday........


Living life like a dog with a stick


Re: I Guess We're Not The Only Ones [Re: Paul Winkelmann] #4907975
02/11/15 07:04 PM
02/11/15 07:04 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 843
NH
S
sgs Offline
trapper
sgs  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 843
NH
In NH you can't undo work that you've done and you can't release a wild animal on any ones property without written permission.

Once an animal is in your trap it's yours, not the customers.

Re: I Guess We're Not The Only Ones [Re: Paul Winkelmann] #4907992
02/11/15 07:13 PM
02/11/15 07:13 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,862
SW Pa
B
Bob Jameson Offline
trapper
Bob Jameson  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,862
SW Pa
I have released animals on site and removed repairs in years past for such clients behavior. Then if there is any legal question it comes down to he said she said. As far as reaction by the technician you need to do it immediately once you realize what is happening or just happened. Don't argue or have words just deliberately and politely do what is needed ( release/remove or unsecure the repair enough and fold back out of the way to allow access ) then leave. Technically no foul is done just poor workmanship.

In one instance,

When I was questioned by an officier as to what happened there I said I was told by the client that they changed their mind after I did the work, so the repair was removed from the structure and the animal was released so someone else could do the work that quoted a lesser price.

No issue with the officer that responded to the complaint call by the client. He smiled a bit and shook his head. I asked if we were done there since I had another call to respond too. He said the client said something different. I said what might that be? He said
to just leave he would handle it.

The client ranted loudly as I walked away and called me a liar and a few other comments etc.. Needless to say he wasn't very happy but I smiled as I walked away.

Re: I Guess We're Not The Only Ones [Re: Paul Winkelmann] #4908083
02/11/15 07:59 PM
02/11/15 07:59 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,556
St. Louis Co, Mo
B
BigBob Offline
trapper
BigBob  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,556
St. Louis Co, Mo
Well handled. That's why I always get 1/2 up front. However, all the news story's about people getting screwed by contractors will say "Never give money up front". So? You don't know weather to crap or go blind.


Every kid needs a Dog and a Curmudgeon.

Remember Bowe Bergdahl, the traitor.

Beware! Jill Pudlewski, Ron Oates and Keven Begesse are liars and thiefs!
Re: I Guess We're Not The Only Ones [Re: Paul Winkelmann] #4908584
02/11/15 11:35 PM
02/11/15 11:35 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 82
Southern Michigan
Cooner22 Offline
trapper
Cooner22  Offline
trapper

Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 82
Southern Michigan
That's an interesting question. What ended up happening, and did the law become involved, like court dates etc?

I had one lawn care customer who wouldn't pay, I of course quit, and never got the money. Unfortunately in that case, I couldn't go back and put the grass back up. laugh


"Not everything on the internet can be believed."
-Abraham Lincoln
Re: I Guess We're Not The Only Ones [Re: Paul Winkelmann] #4908766
02/12/15 12:58 AM
02/12/15 12:58 AM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 164
northern Calif.
P
Probtrapper Offline
trapper
Probtrapper  Offline
trapper
P

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 164
northern Calif.
As far as Calif. is conserned Vinke is exactly correct. Once you attach something to the house you can't take it down for something like non-payment. Thats what GOOD contracts and civil courts are for.


Bob Hassel
Animal Nuisance Control
Re: I Guess We're Not The Only Ones [Re: Paul Winkelmann] #4908971
02/12/15 09:11 AM
02/12/15 09:11 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,862
SW Pa
B
Bob Jameson Offline
trapper
Bob Jameson  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,862
SW Pa
I never had any further contact from the home owner. Wasn't much he could do or say in defense. The repair was still there but not secured well. Any reasonable coon could make re entry if they so wished too. As far as legality in our state you can release any animal captured on site at our discretion. Also things can happen when you transfer an animal to another cage at times.

Lots of things can be done if you have a little fore thought for when such an event occurs. Avoid confrontations then you wont tip your hand and in time they will realize you didn't fix the problem and when or if they call back then you just don't go back. Done deal.

Of course each situation is different and it depends on what was done and if the problem can be reversed in a timely fashion. Or if it requires significant effort to undo the fix. In many cases it doesn't take much to remove a few screws and to bend repair material back enough to suggest an opening. The animals will figure it out quickly enough if it was a primary access point.

I have had very few of these situations but they do and will happen in time the longer you are in business.

I just finished a collection recovery yesterday I will share for others to learn when I get the time to post the events.

Re: I Guess We're Not The Only Ones [Re: Paul Winkelmann] #4909081
02/12/15 10:45 AM
02/12/15 10:45 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,101
Monroeville NJ
J
Jonesie Offline
trapper
Jonesie  Offline
trapper
J

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,101
Monroeville NJ
In most states I believe if the repair or work is attached to the structure then the work can not be removed. I almost learned that the hard way many years ago. the thing I now do is similar to what Bob stated. if I feel the customer is going to be a non payer The repair is not finished until I am getting the check. and why there is a half up front fee.


Ron Jones
http://www.acpwildlifepro.net/
Rednecks Pride Game Calls / Outdoor Scents
Rednecks Pride Outdoors pod cast
Re: I Guess We're Not The Only Ones [Re: Paul Winkelmann] #4928883
02/22/15 10:38 PM
02/22/15 10:38 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 522
North Branch MN
L
Lundy Offline
trapper
Lundy  Offline
trapper
L

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 522
North Branch MN
Here's what a 'bug' guy did, to a Lawyer, no less! After several attempts for payment, the bug guy slipped an open envelope under the door, with a note written on the outside. "This envelope may or may not have been filled with Bed Bugs. " To avoid other possible envelopes, please pay promptly."
The Lawyer showed up at the bug man's office. Called him every name in the book! Said he would sue if he got BB's. Bugman smiled, 'you travel a lot don't you?' How will you prove the source? Who are you gonna call? My friends all know you don't pay.
After handing over a check, Lawyer said it was well written. It wasn't a threat, just suggested a possibility, but strongly advised against actually carrying it out.

Re: I Guess We're Not The Only Ones [Re: Paul Winkelmann] #4928978
02/22/15 11:38 PM
02/22/15 11:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 24
OH
W
WCT Offline
trapper
WCT  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 24
OH
Honestly, it would depend on the dollar amount of the job. For anything under $500 I'd refer them to a collections agency. For anything over $500, I would walk to my truck and lock the doors. Then, while I am still on their property, I would call the local police department and tell them that I'd just been scammed out of X number of dollars and that I wanted to report the incident and have the former client charged with theft. Then I'd follow any directions given by the police for what I do next. As the lawyer at the WCT Seminar stated, you are entitled to receive compensation for work performed if they did not try and stop you regardless if they signed a contract or not.

With this approach, I'd expect one of two things will happen. 1) the police will contact the individual and advise them that they should pay before they have to get any more involved with the case or 2) the police will write up a nice report on the incident stating that they recommended the client pay and the client refused. This report can then be submitted as evidence in court if necessary. One of the nice things with this approach is that if it goes to court, you may not have to pay anything if it can get classified as a criminal suit versus a civil suit. Here is a link that describes the differences between the two http://litigation.findlaw.com/filing-a-lawsuit/civil-cases-vs-criminal-cases-key-differences.html.


Eric Arnold
www.wctmagazine.com
Re: I Guess We're Not The Only Ones [Re: Paul Winkelmann] #4929202
02/23/15 06:59 AM
02/23/15 06:59 AM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 4,681
Southwest Michigan
M
Michigan Trappin Offline
trapper
Michigan Trappin  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: May 2014
Posts: 4,681
Southwest Michigan
Would the persons yard just become your new release site. Won't get you paid but sure would make me feel better


Every day is a gift from GOD, don't waste it!!

If they have plenty of food, give them something interesting to smell
Re: I Guess We're Not The Only Ones [Re: Paul Winkelmann] #4932462
02/24/15 08:28 PM
02/24/15 08:28 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 30
St. Louis area
D
Dave Schmidt Offline
trapper
Dave Schmidt  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 30
St. Louis area
Eric, has that call-the-cops gambit worked for you? I would expect the dispatcher to tell me it's a civil case, not their bailiwick.


ALL OUT Wildlife Control
Re: I Guess We're Not The Only Ones [Re: Paul Winkelmann] #4932791
02/24/15 10:06 PM
02/24/15 10:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 24
OH
W
WCT Offline
trapper
WCT  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 24
OH
Dave,

I haven't had to do this with the wildlife business, but I've had issues where the police had to be contacted on matters that could be classified as either civil suit or criminal suit. In terms of civil versus criminal, when 1) the client hired you with no intent to pay and deprived you of property with no intent to pay or 2) any act, omission, or concealment calculated to deceive another to their advantage it is a criminal offense. Whether it is pursued and charged this way from a prosecutor is a different matter. This is why I feel it is so important to call from the job site immediately versus leaving and trying to collect later.

Can I see the police not wanting to bother with it, yes, especially when it is below a certain financial threshold (like when I had $100 worth of traps stolen from a job site). But when it exceeds a certain amount (seems to be about $500 around me) they tend to take a different outlook on the matter.

Last edited by WCT; 02/24/15 10:08 PM.

Eric Arnold
www.wctmagazine.com
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