Gonna buy some more bridger #2’s for next year. Currently have them with dogs. The rookie in me needs some knowledge about the pros and cons of dogs vs dogless. Thanks for the help

For me its no more bent dogs and I find them a little easier to set in the winter with heavier gloves. Plus you have a little bit more kill area on the pan. I run bridger #2 dogless mostly but I still use #2 duke round jaw. Any new traps that I get will be the dogless 2's
Justin

Man, I thought this thread would have been loaded up with comments by this afternoon. Oh well. Here's my 2 cents, I prefer dogless. Preferably ko k9 extremes, jrs, and jakes. I just like their design, and they work great. Cannot speak for the dogless bridgers, as I have never used them, but could see how they would be and effective more economical route as their design is like that of the ko k9. Do I have dog on traps, yes. But they stay in the shed until I have all my other traps out and come out only if I need them. I just prefer the simplicity of a dogless trap, especially ko k9 traps. Kendall has done a very good job designing a trap that is functional and will stand up to what you could possibly put it through.

The dogless design is a great feature, but as to bent dogs the SS rod dogs took care of that.

Dogless. I am clearing out footholds and replacing with jakes and mb650's. The jakes are incredible but it is easier for me to bed the 650 with both jaws being held so I favor these of the two.

Osky

I run all bridger #2 dogless for k9s fully modified with shock springs and extra swivels. They work really well for me.in Arkansas we are limited to 6" jaw spread on land

I have 3 mb 550's that a friend loaned me and I had a coyote somehow tweak the loop of the dog so that it wouldn't hardly rotate on the hinge point. Never would of thought it could of happen as heavy as that thing is made and I'm not sure if theirs is stainless or not

Those SS rod dogs aren't the ticket. I put a dozen on to try and coyotes will have them tweaked out in no time. Especially when the ground is froze rock solid and dog is flipped back and the coyote slams it into the ground a few times. It will be bent.

Get dogless. Get 1 each of the Bridger #2, Montana #3, K-9 Extreme JR., and figure out which one suits your fancy.

Check out wolf creek products $99 for a dozen #2 shipped to your door

Not completely. And when one gets bent it is very difficult to get back right again.

I caught a 36 lb. male yote a couple weeks ago in a MB 550 with a stock round dog. Somehow, that rascal bent that dog to the point that is was missing but the tab where it mounted was not bent. Did not try to find it as it was on a 10' drag and 3" of snow on the ground.

Never owned a dogless trap so maybe I'm missing something.
I carry a few tools and never had a problem fixing any problems that occurred after a catch. So I'm liking my dog on traps.

Love the Bridger #2 & #3 ddogless. Easy to set with high pad catches. I weld and laminate jaws, spot weld base and add a mid chain crunch proof. Great trap without spending a bunch. Not dgless, but the new duke #2 square has is a great trap also for the $

Also love the Bridger dogless work good for me have MB 650's too.

I've becoming more and more of a dogless fan. The bent stainless dogs can be eliminated by bedding the trap with the dog facing out and tightening the dog eye in a vice to take the slop out. I really like KO's dogless set up 650s too. Both are have tension screws. The #3 Montanas are a nice dogless trap also. I favor the pan on any trap to be below jaw level.

You can make that happen on a dogless bridger, but it is really about how you bed

Understood.

Bought a dz of the Bridger # 2's this year, lamed the jaws, extra swivel n moved the chain to the side. Works great, will buy more!

Have had real good luck with #3 Bridger dogless, fully modified. Used some K.O. K 9 this fall, beast of a trap.

Have you ever used screen on the dogless traps to keep dirt out?

Anyone feel there is a market for a 1.5 or 1.75 size dogless trap?

I would like to see a 1.5 dogless trap. It would be a sweet coon trap and I bet in the water it would be nice too.

Montgomery made a 1.5 dogless that was a good fox trap in the 70s. Then coyote moved in and that trap could not hold most of them. Never tried the 1.5 in the water. There are plenty of good size 1.5 traps on the market so I doubt a doglegs would sell enough to make it worthwhile.
Screen has been used on doglegs traps for years, works as good as it does on dog on traps and better than other pan covers I have tried. YMMV.

Try and convince me why I should use a dogless trap?

I won't cause I don't like them. I picked up a new Bridger #2 to give it a try and didn't care at all for it. Guess it's what you are used to. Yes I get a few bent dogs now and then but a few seconds and it's good to go.
It's not that I think it's an inferior setup, it's personal preference. I'm not a square trap fan to begin with so maybe that swayed my opinion?

The kill area is larger especially if you use screen. Figure all the time ya spend straightening dogs, all adds up even if it takes minutes. The saved time you could have made more sets. I felt the same as You till I tried em..

It will be like trying to change the wind I am afraid. lol

Duke doesn't make dogless traps so trying to convince you would be a waste of time. Get a couple of montana #3 and play with them and convince yourself.

The #3 Montana is twice the trap the Bridger dogless is. Just sayin.





Less screwing around.

No more pans that have zero pan tension after a catch (yeah yeah you don’t need pan tension to catch a coyote, well, I don’t like catching every rabbit, pack rat, and grouse that comes along either).

No more bent or missing dogs. (Happens a lot). Less fiddling around in the field and less replacing traps.

Slightly more live area inside the jaws.

And, at least with the Montgomery style dogless, low pan that works exceptionally well with screen pan covers. Screen pan covers mean a little more kill area yet again, and more air flow which makes keeping sets working easier.

Oh! LOW PAN! I don’t even remember what a toe catch looks like.

My inclement weather bedding style is 100% dependent on a screen cover.

So is Mark Zaggers.

After using dogless for 3 seasons it's a no brainer for me. I don't care for the Bridgers cause the pan is level. I know I could bed it to be low but why complicate things. If Stalker lived closer I'd have all my 550s converted to dogless. Think about that statement Beav. I really like the performance of the KO Juniors. Thanks to Red and Boone for opening my eyes to the dogless advantages. Which way is the wind blowin Beav LOL.

Seems to me most of the big number guys use dogless Hmmm

All this talk about Dogless. I built this Victor #3 Dogless X-Treme today.

I use either coffee filters or fiberglass pipe insulation under the pan. Beginingg to really like the pipe insulation. Either way, waxed sand is used also.

Good lookin trap...what kinda pan tension

I think there is a market, actually mentioned it to Jeff at MTP, cost of tooling is the issue, and I believe that. I think that Bridger 1.75 would sell well. Look at how the size 2 - 3 have sold. Tim Caven would be the man to bug.

I won't either because you won't listen any ways. But why would you want to screw around working on traps after a catch? Yes I've used both. Sterling's and Montana's/ Montgomery for me. Use what you are comfortable with.

No disrespect Joe, but I get a kick out of this whole trap concept. Any good trapper could catch fur with about any brand of trap.Oh the 'ole double long spring days.

My dbls are also dog less lol
There is reason a old dog got ran over In the street.
It's not because he crossed it either.
It's because his hearing is bad ,he didn't hear it coming.
Moral to the story
As a trapper time is money ,and if it worked all the time for ya why change ?
But if it takes time away from you it costs. Time here for us is just like that old dog .
When younger that dog when young could hear better and move better or out run the truck.made mistakes made up for mistakes with youth.
Less moves less mistakes longer life

So when the dog notch that fits over the jaw to hold It In place wears off what are you to do? And I'm betting that will happen over time.
Do you file a new notch then bend the jaw In to make contact?

All of my traps are hooked up to my staking device with a heavy duty quick link. I just remove the trap If I need to and replace It with a trap that's good to go.

Do all dog less traps have a pan tensioning nut and bolt? If not how do you adjust your tension?

Good questions. I got turned off dogless traps by using the old Montgomery's. There was no way to set the pan tension low enough for Gray fox.

It's all about the angle of the contact point of the pan notch. Ive adjusted a few Montanas to less than 2 # . No need to replace, there always good to go. The KOs,Bridgers,Jakes,MB650s all have tension screws. Hey Boone or Red ya ever had a pan notch where out??

So what do you do when your notch wears out. Because you grind that sucker down. Do you buy a new pan? Duke steel is nowhere near as strong as US made steel. Inquiry minds want to know

Trappergbus no, incorrect filing can cause a you a pain.
Like anything there is a learning curve to it I believe Andy Wieser use them right out the box on tension.
I like little more do not got gray fox here.

Be easier imo just buy a pan start over.
You can make a dog less pan a nite latch also this will put your pan below jaw level where the screen fits in and there is no bump or bulge in it.It lays flat.

I apologize I can not get pictures off my phone to Load here but still trying too.
Maybe Boone can, how to put in notch.

Thanks red mt I note latch every trap I use.
The ? was ment for the Beav

Opps my bad

Why would I grind down the pan notch On dog on trap?
And I'm betting that dogs and pan iron are pretty cheap steel on all traps. And we really don't know If these American made traps are made with American made steel know do we.

Besides we were talking about dog less trap not dog on traps.

Well on another thread you stated that you don't nitelatch you file the notch short. You said you didn't need that cute little click. I was just wondering how much time you spend filing those notches down. Just trying to get you to see there is more to trapping than your final word. Jm2cents

You do It your way I'll do It my way I think I have the right to ask questions and explain the way I do things Your way Is not the only way wetdog.

I don't night latch but I do shorten the notch and square It up a bit. It takes about 3 seconds to do It. I take very good care of my traps In fact all of my canine traps are powder coated. So rust and wear on the dog notch Is non existent. I might after the season square up the notch and get them ready for the next season.

There are 100s of ways to skin a cat and the things I do I do for a reason because they work for me.
So the individuals reading these posts have several ways they can go when buying traps or adjusting traps or tinkering with them.

This post was about dog less traps. I asked questions about these traps since I have never used them Is that Ok with you?

My bad. Just yanking on you chain old man. Did not mean to get you all railed up.

Hey being old gives me some privileges. Hey I'm not riled you haven't seen me riled.

WE need to listen to all Ideas posted here. I like to stir the pot a bit since It keeps these important threads going. No sense In having 5 posts on a subject when It's not answering all the questions that may be asked. Lots of trappers are lurkers on this forum and don't ask questions so by stirring the pot more questions are asked so more are ansewerd.

Have a good day wetdog.

Thanks Beav
There is some pot stirring on the talk side,and I made popcorn
God bless and stay safe out there

I use #3 Montana's right out of the box, basically, all of the time. I de-grease, rinse off, boil in log wood dye.

I set them once at my shop, and adjust the pan to be lower, if needed. It's usually 2-3 per dozen, that need a slight tweek.


Then, I go set them. NO filing. I use stiff screen, which keeps dirt from going under the pan. I don't use anything under the pan.

I put 1/2" dirt or waxed dirt, coal shale, pine tree duff, sand, or whatever type of soil I'm using over the trap.

If I want a little heavier pan tension, I might position the pan on the jaw so that it comes in contact with a little more jaw,

I've used these type of traps for 35 years now. I've been around 100's of people that use them.

I've had countless conversations with people, about the beauty of them being the SIMPLICITY of using them.

You don't have to overthink traps like the #3 Montana. But, I know people that tend to do that.

Not all, but most of the over thinkers have the smallest piles of fur in the end.

Ask a guy that's caught 2-300 predator in a few months in foothold traps, and usually their comment on pan tension is about 5 seconds. Most realize the variables, and just settle on 2 1/2 -4 pounds. Any more calculating and second guessing is a waste of time in my opinion.

I went on a friends trap line a few weeks ago. He was using another version of a dog-less trap.
I won't say which brand for obvious reasons. After the first few catches, I started doing the remakes for him, while he was dispatching the coyotes.

I was shocked at how hard it was to get the mud and other frozen stuff out from under the pan. Levers needed tweeked a lot, and some I could hardly get reset. Pan tension was very hard to guess, because of all the extra stuff being full of mud, AFTER a catch in real trap line conditions. I deemed them not 'user friendly' by the end of the day, and I assure you I was being very objective. I'm way more concerned with catching coyotes than I am will selling traps.

My thought was that the people that designed them were trying to appeal to some trappers' need to adjust and play with traps, NOT catch fur. I came away glad that I deal with the people that I do. Oh, and his partner did have one in a #3 Montana that he'd just set. After seeing the difference, they ordered more. A lot more. Real life trapping calls for traps that work, and work without babysitting them.

Have a great year, and I hope to see some of you this summer somewhere.

Here's a Montana / Monty style dogless conversion

All my traps are dogless...Zagger taught me this many years ago

I also like traps with low sitting pans

It's all personal preference on style, night latch, etc

Use what works for you and puts fur in the truck.....but I always listen to the advice of John Graham, Mark Zagger, etc because of their experience and skill

As far as the jaw engagement notch wearing out, hasn’t been an issue for me and I got Monty’s in my collection that are 30+ years old.

As far as nightlatching one, why would you?

I never bought into nightlatching even when I used dog on traps, and certainly see absolutely no need for it on the Monty/Montana style dogless.

Like John said, simplicity. I set the trap, pull the pan up till it stops coming up, and bed the trap and move on.

I don’t have the time, nor inclination to tinker and tweak and fart around with traps, even in the off season. Since going exclusively to this style of trap, I do t have to do so.

I am ditching chestnut rings. So I’m dreading cutting off 250 or so and replacing em with a lap link. That’s gonna be my big maintenance project this summer.

Mmmmm, me like.

Curious Boone what don't you like about the chestnuts? Thanks

They’re kinda intrusive and make me angry sometimes the way they get in the way in the bottom of the bed.

And I never use em. Can’t remember the last time I cross pegged a trap.

I use a lot of wolf fangs or single stakes. Knock 24-30” of rebar in a lot of my country and it’s not going anywhere.

Thanks, wish I could drive 1 rebar, don't work here. Chained supers mostly.

Boone all it is 3 strokes with a 3corner file.on the corner of shoulder on the dog right where the slope and the straight up and down meet.
No slop, no travel. And below jaw level no bubble
I do not know what to call it but if you file a trap at all for tension that's the place I put it.
And it's a one time deal for me.

I'm planning on purchasing some Bridger #2 dogless traps. I'm used to dog on traps when land trapping. Anyone have any advice or tips? Warnings?

I just might have to get some #3 dog less Montana's this year.
John you going to be at the FTA In WI?

I like this thread. I have used Monty dogless since they came on the market in the 70's. Also have dog on, but prefer dogless. Right now Montanas look just like old Montys, and Victor sells a Montgomery dogless with what appears to be the same pan setup. I am strongly considering buying a couple dozen #3 Victor style dogless because I'm leaning towards a round jaw trap. Anyone have up to date opinions on the Victor style dogless? I caught 4 yotes this year in a #3 Victor dog on that I bought at an auction last year. All 4 weren't going anywhere. Last one was -17°F, foot was frozen to the trap jaw.

The Montana #3 Offsets have a huge trash gap. They are offset with lugs welded to the jaws. Held every coyote that stepped on the pan. All were held just above the pad, not one toe hold..

You will like the victor Monty's if that what you choose I have ran them for 4years great trap round jaw has gained a lot of ground in my camp , anything with a old Monty dog less system is a keeper imo so only thing is round verses square your choice . Have fun

Do they come non offset? I will not buy a offset jawed trap.

Yes sir beav Montana 3s and Victor Monty's also come in a regular jaw. If wanted

I agree with red mt ...we think a lot alike. Lol

Beav- No, I won't be attending many conventions this year. But, I am hosting a get together in August that will appeal to guys that are in to coyotes and 'cats (Predator) trapping. Details will be released soon. I'm in the field 320+ days a year, and hate to get too far from home. 2 kids are graduating from college in May, and I want to do something with them before they head out into the world.

Boone, I'll bring new bolt cutters. You hold the chain, and I'll cut those off for you.

So as I get older and I'm losing hand and arm strength. It's not fun getting old.
So when I'm setting a dog on trap I have the help of the dog when pushing down on the dog to compress the jaw. Once I get to a certain point all I need Is one hand and my thumb. So If I go to dog less traps Is that going to give me any added problems when setting them?

It would be my suggestion that anyone who has used only dogged traps should go to a supplier or maybe a trapping friends house and try setting a dogless trap before making a major purchase. Another option is to buy one and play with it to see how you like it. In my opinion the dogless take more hand strength to set. I just got my first one to try out earlier today. I am sure there is a knack to setting it, I am just a dogged trap owner and have not had the experience with this trap. Not sure I like the pan nut on the base either, will it stop the trap from firing on frozen ground?

You know Beav it be tougher for you buddy in my thinking . I hold both jaws down setting a dog less trap.

I set a dogless with the free jaw facing away from me.

I use my palms to push the levers down.

With my palms on the levers, I reach in with my index finger and lift the pan. I dont put a hand on the jaws at all. Easier than a dog on trap IMO.

I bought a bunch of new 1.5 Dukes for rats once upon a time. After the second day, my thumb was ready to fall off from holding that dog down while setting those stinking things. Powerful little buggers when new.

Might have to get one to try. I guess I could use some setters one hand and a knee.

I can relate to those 1 1/2 Dukes. You would be cripple over night If you had to set 200 of those a day. LOL

Thanks for the replies.

One Hand Setters.

One Hand Setters work great, when you remember to bring them. I usually set with a hand on each lever with the free jaw facing me. As I push down on levers, I use my knee to push down on the jaw and hold while I engage the pan. Love my dogless and they're big pans.

I can attest to the setters. Just before christmass in an accident my right shoulder was literally torn off. After the last surgery a couple weeks ago of course I couldn't sit still and after a couple days I was in my shop staring at a new setter from Dave, which I had ordered for mb650's. First time I ever used one. My right side strapped to my body and only my hand sticking out I had no problem using them. Wow.
I am going to have a holster of sorts made to carry them on my belt. Psst Dave....

As to the dogless I am loving them. Yes reach from under to set the pan and done. I must say I am only interested in cat trapping and I get away with not being the worlds best trap bedder being my quarry is cats.

Osky

setters are great..just like anything else..we are creatures of habit..first time or two they seem clunky or clumsy..but after a day or two you will start to think why did't I use these sooner to make this so easy..trust me I am 65 and like most find out some simple things aren't simple anymore..you won't be sorry..

This is the kind of information that makes this site so great. I was setting the trap with loose jaw toward me. Creature of habit for sure...

I use my body weight straight down with palms on the levers with the trap on the ground after staking. If the grounds soft I place the trap on my kneeling pad. Reach under with my fanger set the pan, bed the trap, out a there. No more sore thumbs , and more efficient.

Dave's on hand setters are a must for serious trapping.

So much easier than the way I was doing it with the loose jaw in. Thanks for the tip!

I like dogless traps. My favorite is the bridger #3 and 650. I also have a k9 extreme and love how the pan sits below the jaws, but thats a lot of trap. I always had problems with bent dogs, and the dogless fixed it. Ive caught quite a few dogs in them this year and really like them. They get good pad catches and I have yet to have one fired and be empty.

The easiest way to set the Montgomery style dogless traps is when you push the levers down with your palms, slide one of your middle fingers under the cross arm where the pan attaches. As soon as you get the jaw past the pan notch, push up on the bottom of the pan attachment with your middle finger (pushing up where the pan drops below the cut out in the cross arm). Once you push the pan up and make contact with the jaw just let up on the levers and it is set. Extremely fast, no fumbling around reaching for the pan, and when you get used to it the trap is set as soon as you get the jaws open.

There is a difference in dogless style pans. The Bridger dogless pan style and the old Montgomery dogless style. The Bridger dogless sets easier to me than a dog on trap

Can someone point me in Daves direction for trap setters?

You can order them at this site. https://www.southernsnares.com/products/one-hand-setters

Here's another thread on how you can contact the person that makes the setters.

https://trapperman.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/6149689/One_Hand_Trapsetters#Post6149689

One Hand Setters
Contact Info-
E-Mail: davidfsheldonjr@gmail.com
Home: 802-362-2764
Cell 802-681-8277
https://trapperman.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/users/30732

Thank you all for the info.