Re: Status of the International Fur Market
[Re: Steven 49er]
#6281099
07/17/18 09:31 PM
07/17/18 09:31 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,076 SE Nebraska
trapperne
trapper
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trapper
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,076
SE Nebraska
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ain't no western coyotes in PA last i checked.5 states does not a market make.open your eyes to the other 45 states. Do you have any clue how many coyotes CG buys? Take them out of the picture and the coyote market goes below production costs for the majority. When a market is below production costs it's as good as dead. I don’t believe that is the case at all, they buy a select bunch of coyotes. They didn’t buy the top lots at either auction this year, I have been told the Chinese buy in the neighborhood of 300k of all shapes and sizes. CG is the most vocal but far from the only markwt
Follow me on Facebook @ Lincoln Fur
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Re: Status of the International Fur Market
[Re: trapperne]
#6281108
07/17/18 09:45 PM
07/17/18 09:45 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,148 Illinois
ringtailtrapper
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,148
Illinois
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[/quote]
I don’t believe that is the case at all, they buy a select bunch of coyotes. They didn’t buy the top lots at either auction this year, I have been told the Chinese buy in the neighborhood of 300k of all shapes and sizes. CG is the most vocal but far from the only markwt [/quote]
True that !!
For Sale, Quality Racing Possums
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Re: Status of the International Fur Market
[Re: Dirt]
#6281125
07/17/18 10:05 PM
07/17/18 10:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,247 Co.-Wy. part time AK.
wy.wolfer
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,247
Co.-Wy. part time AK.
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The one company on the face of the Earth promoting wild n.a. fur, and trappers, and the trappers overwhelming response to them?:
"POUND SAND" IMO both Al and CG want the same thing. They want trappers to supply all their wants and desires at unrealistic prices. I had no idea that I "SET" the market. Does that come with braggin rights, and more important, can I sell them for anything?
Last edited by wy.wolfer; 07/17/18 10:08 PM.
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Re: Status of the International Fur Market
[Re: ringtailtrapper]
#6281128
07/17/18 10:10 PM
07/17/18 10:10 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,076 SE Nebraska
trapperne
trapper
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trapper
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,076
SE Nebraska
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Please explain why certification is even needed, when everything they are requesting from certification is already in place, like traceability, and accountability. It's not spitting in anybody's face when you just show them the information they requested is already accessible. Maybe the problem is with those that we as trappers have entrusted to market our goods ?? Both auction houses have the ability to trace pelts, and if that information was the best approach to marketing those goods, and with the current consignment agreement that all fur shippers agree to when shipping fur in place, that gives the consignment company almost complete control to market those goods at their digression , then why have not the auction houses already implemented traceability ?? The auction houses better be able to provide traceability, and if not then why are we shipping them fur to market ??
RTT
True that right back at ya. Lol. We all ready harvest fur as deemed legal and humane by state and federal laws, what’s a ride along by Goose gonna prove.
Follow me on Facebook @ Lincoln Fur
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Re: Status of the International Fur Market
[Re: pass-thru]
#6281129
07/17/18 10:10 PM
07/17/18 10:10 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,148 Illinois
ringtailtrapper
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,148
Illinois
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There is a certain segment within the trapping industry, and fur trade that wants a more limited market, and certification is that avenue for those select few wishing to achieve that goal. This segment has been around for sometime, and many of the people that fought against this in the past are no longer of this world. They knew that this could divide trappers, and with that division trapping could very well become an activity that was only limited to a few certain individuals. They wanted trapping to be an activity for everyone that wished to take on the endeavor, and they believed in free markets, and creating more opportunities for more people to become involved in trapping. education was fine, but certification was an element that could be used so many different ways, and many of those ways could be very detrimental to trapping as a whole. The risk was not worth the reward, and thus they fought this tooth and nail.
RTT
For Sale, Quality Racing Possums
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Re: Status of the International Fur Market
[Re: ringtailtrapper]
#6281148
07/17/18 10:46 PM
07/17/18 10:46 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 10,512 MN
Steven 49er
trapper
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trapper
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 10,512
MN
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Please explain why certification is even needed, when everything they are requesting from certification is already in place, like traceability, and accountability. It's not spitting in anybody's face when you just show them the information they requested is already accessible. Maybe the problem is with those that we as trappers have entrusted to market our goods ?? Both auction houses have the ability to trace pelts, and if that information was the best approach to marketing those goods, and with the current consignment agreement that all fur shippers agree to when shipping fur in place, that gives the consignment company almost complete control to market those goods at their digression , then why have not the auction houses already implemented traceability ?? The auction houses better be able to provide traceability, and if not then why are we shipping them fur to market ??
RTT
I've been told that 2020 is the year NAFA will start to implement traceability.
"Inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon". Milton Friedman.
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Re: Status of the International Fur Market
[Re: pass-thru]
#6281153
07/17/18 10:55 PM
07/17/18 10:55 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,076 SE Nebraska
trapperne
trapper
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trapper
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,076
SE Nebraska
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I’ll believe it when I see it, just like when they were going to 1099 trappers and fur buyers a few years ago.
Follow me on Facebook @ Lincoln Fur
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Re: Status of the International Fur Market
[Re: wy.wolfer]
#6281160
07/17/18 11:01 PM
07/17/18 11:01 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,217 Armpit, ak
Dirt
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,217
Armpit, ak
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IMO both Al and CG want the same thing. They want trappers to supply all their wants and desires at unrealistic prices.
I had no idea that I "SET" the market. Does that come with braggin rights, and more important, can I sell them for anything? It is real simple Al, I can't produce below production cost and a reasonable rate of return, no matter what the market wants. If the market wants fur below production cost that is what hobby trappers are for.
Who is John Galt?
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Re: Status of the International Fur Market
[Re: trapperne]
#6281165
07/17/18 11:06 PM
07/17/18 11:06 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 10,512 MN
Steven 49er
trapper
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trapper
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 10,512
MN
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I’ll believe it when I see it, just like when they were going to 1099 trappers and fur buyers a few years ago. No doubt, the proof is in the pudding.
"Inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon". Milton Friedman.
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Re: Status of the International Fur Market
[Re: pass-thru]
#6281180
07/17/18 11:23 PM
07/17/18 11:23 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 976 Western Colorado
coloradocat
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 976
Western Colorado
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Looks like a Pro-Life/Pro-Choice argument to me. Aint gonna be no winners, aint gonna change any minds.
I just bet ya a bunch of coyotes get whacked regardless.
Colorado Search and Rescue- Interfering with natural selection since 1976
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Re: Status of the International Fur Market
[Re: pass-thru]
#6281190
07/17/18 11:46 PM
07/17/18 11:46 PM
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,657 Mountain View, AR
ShaneT
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,657
Mountain View, AR
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I get the potential perils of certification but just looking at this from a manufacturer's end, how will a limited amount of trappers be able to provide enough fur to them without prices going through the roof? Why would they want to drive the price of a fur item they want to use up by limiting the supply? What am I missing?
"Good Lord, thank you for your endless bounty. Lord please give me the strength to gather what I need"
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Re: Status of the International Fur Market
[Re: PSB1011]
#6281198
07/18/18 12:03 AM
07/18/18 12:03 AM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,447 idaho
wallfur
trapper
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trapper
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,447
idaho
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[/quote] You might be right,you might not be right.Maby you should go and spit in the face of a Canada Goose representative,and tell them we don't need them.Thats a great business model. [/quote].....how many PA coyotes do CG buy? no ones spitting in there face ,all everyones saying is that we are all ready in compliance with what they are asking for, with BMP already in place! don't need ride alongs from there hand picked trappers to represent all trappers. especially for a short lived fashion trim trade item....if you think by complying it will insure high coyote prices forever...haha they wont! fashion changes fast.
Last edited by wallfur; 07/18/18 12:10 AM.
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Re: Status of the International Fur Market
[Re: Steven 49er]
#6281206
07/18/18 12:25 AM
07/18/18 12:25 AM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,148 Illinois
ringtailtrapper
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,148
Illinois
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Please explain why certification is even needed, when everything they are requesting from certification is already in place, like traceability, and accountability. It's not spitting in anybody's face when you just show them the information they requested is already accessible. Maybe the problem is with those that we as trappers have entrusted to market our goods ?? Both auction houses have the ability to trace pelts, and if that information was the best approach to marketing those goods, and with the current consignment agreement that all fur shippers agree to when shipping fur in place, that gives the consignment company almost complete control to market those goods at their digression , then why have not the auction houses already implemented traceability ?? The auction houses better be able to provide traceability, and if not then why are we shipping them fur to market ??
RTT
I've been told that 2020 is the year NAFA will start to implement traceability. Steven, if that is true, then we are talking about a company that already has the name, address, and license information on file of every shipper they have dealt with. The very idea that it would take them two more years to implement traceability is laughable, and speaks volumes in regards as to how this company conducts business. RTT
Last edited by ringtailtrapper; 07/18/18 12:26 AM.
For Sale, Quality Racing Possums
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Re: Status of the International Fur Market
[Re: Steven 49er]
#6281248
07/18/18 06:28 AM
07/18/18 06:28 AM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,132 SWMo.
tjm
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,132
SWMo.
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Do you have any clue how many coyotes CG buys? Take them out of the picture and the coyote market goes below production costs for the majority. When a market is below production costs it's as good as dead.
It was suggested the other day that they don't buy coyotes at all but only ready made ruffs. So, I ask, do you have any idea of how many coyotes CG buys? or if they just buy ruffs, how many coyotes the ruff manufacturer buys? If not a number, an approximate percentage of production? However many it is a good thing and it would be even better if they used some more, but for sake of discussion, some notion of just how big an impact they might have would be good to know. How many coat ruffs can be made from a single pelt and what becomes of the rest?
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Re: Status of the International Fur Market
[Re: pass-thru]
#6281252
07/18/18 06:36 AM
07/18/18 06:36 AM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 28,978 potter co. p.a.
pcr2
"Twerker"
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"Twerker"
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 28,978
potter co. p.a.
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i think we are gettin a mushroom treatment.kept in the dark and fed a bunch a poo
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Re: Status of the International Fur Market
[Re: ringtailtrapper]
#6281406
07/18/18 10:57 AM
07/18/18 10:57 AM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 19,719 pa
hippie
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 19,719
pa
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Steven, if that is true, then we are talking about a company that already has the name, address, and license information on file of every shipper they have dealt with. The very idea that it would take them two more years to implement traceability is laughable, and speaks volumes in regards as to how this company conducts business.
RTT
That is the part the the "don't question them" crowd is avoiding. Every one of these posts several of us say this, they have all they need IF traceability is all they're after. I'd like to see one of them address this. Monster Toms said that is all they're after, so i'll believe him until i see different. If they step over the line and start on our methods, as BOCO has, then they will get resistance from me and hopefully others. Dollars ain't worth losing traps/methods.
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