Liberals will try anything to justify there ruination of the good ol U.S.A.

I even saw James state on here, not long ago, that "most" Democrats don't want to take your guns. BS. (so stupid i didn't even reply, tell that to the good people of Cali. and N. York who are out-voted by dems.)
All one has to do is look at how they've voted on gun bills and SCOTUS rulings. Hard to find one defending gun rights. DUH.

I didn't feel this way about Dems before i started seeing how they will go to great lengths to undermine what we've fought for, and the completely stupid things they say.

Something being LAW does not automatically mean that the law is just. Just as the idea of something NOT being illegal does not make it moral. I believe if more people understood this idea they would stop trying to legislate and regulate every aspect of each other's lives.
Not allowing your lens to view what is JUST and MORAL be government edicts and the whims of do-gooders and pansy's is, in my opinion, the key to being libertarian and keeping freedom near the forefront.

Laws are put on by the majority of our elected officials, as set-up by the constitution. They should not be subverted, just or unjust. There are, as i already said, means set forth by the constitution to rid yourself of laws you feel are unjust.

Until then, suck it up.

There are many examples in our country's history of unjust laws that I believe anyone who is upright in their morals would be duty bound to subvert. The fugitive slave laws are a prime example.

If legislature passed a law X, and if our country were filled with mindless automatons, who you seem to have an affinity for, followed along with the unjust law X- it would preclude the law ever coming under review of our courts because there would never be a citizen with any standing to bring the law to the court for review.

Yep, and our slave laws were eliminated by the gov't.
I'm for following the constitution, Not sure what your saying, but if it doesn't follow they way we've done it since the constitution was written, then i'll have to disagree.

The fact that the entity (government) that created the unjust slave laws later repealed them does not absolve YOU or anyone else from the responsibility to subvert them during the time they were law. The Constitution-though a great document limiting government- does not supercede your duty to follow the calling of morality set in you by your Creator.

Are you saying to just ignore laws i don't fell just or moral?

No thanks,

I suppose that would depend upon how strongly you felt the law was unjust or or IMmoral. I am sure if I started at a rather innocuous example and moved toward an example of pure tryanny- somewhere on that line you would say that at this point it is not only best to ignore but to actively subvert the law used in that example.

I agree with that. If said example was blantantly against the constitution to the point of tyranny, i could see we the people taking things into our own hands.

I don't see people ignoring our border laws even remotely close to that tho.

By your sideways admission, helping a fugitive slave wouldn't have been enough reason subvert the law, either.
I do readily admit that current border laws and regulations do not cross my threshold for ignorance much less subversion.

I wasn't around when we had slaves, so i guess you and i could say anything we want to now. We are talking about our current border laws, or so i thought.

Are you asking if i'd join the north to beat down the south?

Let me answer you this way..............

M.L.K. fought exactly what your talking about, and fairly recently. I think he went about it the right way.


Now, i've got some really good pork and kraut to work on, hope you'll have a good meal today as well.

I am not asking anything of you. I responded to trapdog1 in reference to post #6415100 concerning ingoring unjust laws being a separate issue as originally posted by James.

Enjoy your pork. While you're gnawing on the pork bone do some masticating over the finer points of your debate concerning the morality of ignoring or subverting unust laws and we'll pick up where we left off when I'm done with my left over prime rib.

Thanks Finn, hope your prime rib hits the spot.

I really don't have much more to say about the unjust slave laws, or any law for that matter as i've pointed to both major incidents concerning how they were changed.
Those are the only two ways i know of to change our laws, Fight/overthrow or legislate.

My point was you can't just choose to ignore a law because you don't like it. Yes, there are unjust and stupid laws, but they need to be eliminated or changed. Or in some cases, laws just need to be enforced.

You most certainly CAN ignore laws that you don't like; and in some particularly egregious instances you should feel compelled to actively work against unjust law. To say that all laws-no matter the magnitude of their injustice or immorality should be blindly followed is particularly UN-American.