Got a call from a friend who has guinea fowl which he allows to free range. He also has a few chickens. His neighbor has dogs and feeds stray cats. He’s been losing some guinea fowl steadily over the past year here and there. A week or so ago the neighbor witnessed a fox take one down.

He asked me to help him but given the fact that he allows them to free range, the neighbors dogs and cats which also roam, I’m assuming that any type of kill trap is out of question. Other than hunting with a predator call at night, I have no clue what to suggest.

Even with a cage trap he’d probably never be able to catch anything other than a stray cat.

I appreciate your input on this matter.

I would use a cage. Plenty of bait that cats don't have much interest in that are appealing to fox.

Could you elaborate on the type of bait that you’re speaking about?

I would look for either a dead chicken or a guinea fowl (we have hundreds of chicken houses around here, so a chicken is easy to come by). My thought is if that is what it eats, give him what he wants.

Sounds good T, I appreciate it. Will certainly give it a try.

I had a large live trap that was long. I put a 1x2 welded wire wall inside the trap. I use this to put live bait in. There was a door on top of the cage. I use quail as bait. Worked for me. I bet a starling would work great or maybe two. But they need lots of water. JMO

I get these calls every spring. Same scenario of free range chickens, roaming dogs and cats, and somebody blaming an evil fox. That is a pointless and thankless job in which nobody can be successful. Free range chickens and they blame the fox? I have had chickens for 30 years and never lost one to a predator. This is not a job for a nuisance trapper. They need other help.

Free range chicken may be the problem, but understanding what is going on with the property will benefit you more than working up or buying a bunch of baits. Using what is there is great but if they are free range, it wouldn't be hard for predators to scoop one up. Need to get a handle on the chickens etc and run traps. If the owner wants to handle the issue they will do what it takes, if that means rounding up all the livestock for a period of time so the issue is addressed so be it. As far as avoiding cats, nothing is guaranteed to have no attraction to other animals. Most say use sweets around cats, there are sweet odors that do a number on attracting cats, knowing which ones to stay away from helps to better your chances. The cage along with the odors associated with it could be the ticket. Me personally, if I were to worry about cats entering my traps and tried to come up with a lot of elaborate methods to avoid them, I'd never set a trap and wouldn't make a dime.

Thank you gentlemen, there's a lot of good information here to consider.

So what I've gathered from the most recent information is that the landowner needs to either round up his livestock to deter the predators, or at least provide an opportunity whereas the predator can be eliminated without the interference of the livestock. If not, given the stray cat issue, this sounds like a futile situation.

Is this a good summary of the information provided?

Although I understand that such a situation is not impossible to fix, I see now that it's not far from it given all of the surrounding enticements for the predators. Too bad the predators couldn't pick up a few stray cats every now and again. When I asked him if he cared whether or not the cats were thinned out he said that he didn't like them, but that his neighbor does and that he has a good relationship with the neighbor and wouldn't want to jeopardize that. So as far as thinning out the cat herd is concerned, that too is not an option.

Another question if you all don't mind, what size trap/brand, etc... should I use?

I see that a trapping supply company has a Freedom Brand trap that is 15"x18"x36" model and is recommended for use in trapping bobcats and other similarly sized animals. I also see that Harbor Freight has a 32 in. x 15 in. x 10 in. Medium Animal Trap for $25. I understand that quality issue here, but if a HF trap will actually hold a fox, of course I'd rather go with that. I'm not a professional ADC person who needs top of the line equipment, just a guy helping out a friend.

Are you licensed to do this? Are you qualified to do this? Do you have the knowledge, skills, abilities, and equipment to do this? What is your motivation for doing this?

Why would a fox go into a cage to get a bird when chicken dinners are literally wandering around free and easy for the taking?

The neighbor needs to accept that a fox and other predators including the neighbor’s roaming cats and dogs will eat his free ranging chickens or change what is within his control. Put the birds in a coop. The neighbor needs to understand that roaming cats and dogs are at risk. Is there a leash law? In the county in Ohio where I live for example there is a leash law requiring all cats and dogs to be on a leash. Will either of these people change? Probably not.

Have you ever heard the maxim, “No good deed goes unpunished”? Please reread my post above.

Other replies in quote.

I truly appreciate your input. I’m not the sharpest tool in the shed so a literal, “DON’T DO IT” and here’s why would work better next time for me to grasp the concept.

My only motivation is to help a guy who was given my number from a farmer who allows me to trap his land. And yeah, I was going to charge a few dollars for my troubles but nothing like a real ADC person. Just enough to cover expenses.

I will definitely pass your words of wisdom into the land owner and let him know that it is HE who is causing the problem here. And that the fox is just being a fox.

Seriously, thanks again for saving me. I feel like I owe you one.

You type a "few" chickens and fowl, how much is a few? I've trapped farms with dozens upon dozens of chickens and other livestock. If the folks on the farms I trap could manage to secure their livestock to allow trapping. I couldn't imagine securing a "few" chickens and fowl would be hard at all. Keeping up with the animals is half the battle regarding feed, cleanliness of the area they frequent,, coops etc. I don't recall ever telling a homeowner who called for removals any of that ^^^^^^^^^^^^ lol. Either way, attempting to do something is better than doing nothing,

I had absolutely no intent to insult or malign you. I was hoping to help you make a more informed decision about getting involved in a situation where there is little chance to accomplish the landowner / customer’s goals.

Please understand that as soon as you accept money for this job, the customer will expect very specific results. Frankly, with all of the activity, trapping a fox or foxes will be extremely difficult if not impossible. I was hoping to point this out to you so that you may realize what you may be getting yourself into.

I also have trapped on lands with most sort of livestock and animals. And the customers are usually good about securing the animals for the duration of the trapping. They have incentive because they are paying for results. They should want me to be efficient. However these chicken people sound like many I have met who will not put their chickens away even during the trapping. Plus you really have no control over the neighbor and their activities.

In your state, are you permitted to charge for ADC work without a specific license? Doing paid ADC work can put you at risk for liability issues. These are issues that you may have not considered since you are a relatively new trapper.

I applaud you for wanting to help, and as a trapper you may be able to help. Just watch out for yourself and protect your assets.

I have had many of these calls which were from upset unrealistic and unworkable people. To me these are jobs that are not worth accepting based upon my experiences. Hopefully your situation will be much better.

You may not be a good trapper yet, but you will be. You have worked hard, tried hard, had some success and some frustrations. However, you have not given up. You are right here discussing this with guys who have quite a bit of experience and you are holding your head up, not slinking away.

Through this website and the people here you have access to ideas from people representing literally thousands of years of experience. It is apparent that the guys responding to your questions here have much experience. It would be interesting to know the total years to see from what amount of collective experience you are benefitting.

Trapperman is designed with a wonderful spirit of trappers sharing information and resources. I had the pleasure of knowing Paul’s father Charles. He personally spent time with me teaching me the fine points of trap modification and tuning as well as a great amount of information about animals, nature, and of course trapping. We worked together to start a local chapter of Furtakers of America. Charles was a wonderful, kind, and generous man who helped many others. It is in that same way that I am trying to help you.

Please keep us informed with this project. Best wishes.

Most use contracts to put them specifics in place and have the homeowner sign for acknowledgement so both party(s) are on the same page. So in the event if the trapper isn't successful due to specifics that were noted and not addressed by the homeowner the trapper has done their part. No guarantees in this game to begin with. I would still attempt the job, if anything you'll prolly help the individual get a start on taking care of the issue. If adc'n is what you're thinking about doing, turning down opportunities to get experience is something I wouldn't do often. Complicated jobs due to homeowner infliction are great experience, and will help you to make decisions on future jobs.

Just be clear when you type up an agreement/contract, whether you're doing it for trapping privilege, money etc. I enjoy a challenge, no two jobs are the same, I don't care what the armchair experts say. One way or another you will learn quite a bit from these types of jobs, and the most vital part of this whole job, is that you will have first hand experience on it. Isn't that what everyone is always preaching ? Or you can do like most and only tackle the easy jobs that don't take much thought and when complicated jobs like these come around be totally lost. This is based off of vague info on the property setup etc. Good Luck!

There will always be a need for predator control for those who have livestock. Fox, coyote, raccoon, skunk, opossum the list goes on. Recommendations on how to address these issues are sometimes just as good.

Willy & TDHP, I truly appreciate all of the information that you're providing and I honestly hope that you have more to say because I like learning and gaining knowledge in the trapping world.

I'd had many hours to think about what both of you have said previously, and now have had time to read your most recent posts. My idea/plan of approach at this time, should I consider trying to help out the person, was to first establish where the people have observed the fox itself and give me the details of routes of travel. I was then thinking about trying to track the animal away from the dwellings so that I could possibly find a route of travel and set something up far enough away to limit incidentals. I'd also contemplated picking a site that's a good distance away and placing a camera with some type of food source. Once I establish a feeding site and get the known animal on camera, and see what else is visiting or not visiting the site, then I can possibly make a better informed decision as to what to do and what not to do instead of just setting and praying.

As for how many chickens/fowl, he said that he has approximately a dozen fowl and two chickens. He said that he started last year with a dozen fowl, they dwindled down to 2, and then he restocked. He said that he'd heard that if you also introduce a few chickens into the mix that they will keep the fowl fairly localized and won't allow them to free range very far. He got the fowl to clean up the ticks, etc... around his homestead. He told me that he tries to round them up nightly but sometimes by the time that he gets home from work they're already roosted. This then brought up another point in my mind, if they roost in the trees, etc..., then the problem isn't at night, it's during the day when he would allow them to free range anyways. Again, I understand that this fox is literally just being a fox. Too bad it couldn't focus on some of the stray cats also.

It's funny that you mentioned a contract. I sat here yesterday writing a simple agreement stating that they acknowledge that I'm not a licensed professional and that they agree to name me as a co-property manager for the duration of the agreed upon time. I also stated that I will attempt to help to the best of my knowledge and ability but that results in these situations are never guaranteed. I also stated in there that any theft, damage, loss, etc... of equipment would be the responsibility of the land owner to reimburse.

I'm not dead set on helping the guy but feel that if someone actually comes to me for help, then I want to help. We as men don't ask for help much so he must really be in some sort of situation as to ask for it.

Willy, I truly do appreciate your input, as well as you TDHP. At no time did I think that you were trying to insult me, it just seemed as though you were becoming frustrated due to my lack of knowledge, which is obviously a great deal. Again, like you said, which is why I'm here on this site. I honestly have to applaud you guys for your willingness to share and help. I've heard it many times in the past year and a half that such sharing was never the case in the trapping world. I'll be turning 43 soon and I have many regrets, one of which is that I never showed interest in trapping until about a year and a half ago. I've lost so much time doing things that really didn't matter instead of doing something like this.

So please, if I decide to help out this gentleman, tell me what you think about my ideas listed above in this post.

Chad

If you catch a cat in a cage trap shake it up, and turn it loose. He wont go back in the trap.

One of our adc lures for fox,raccoon,skunk and opossum in this trap. Lots of neighborhood cats that use the area to access other properties, and trapped the target animals. I haven't had issues with cats when doing adc jobs with these types of lures. Most start running into issues when you start to get into the fish, cat, dog foods. I was told ahead of time about the cat issues in that area, but that was the activity area of the critters that needed to be removed as well. If I listened to half of what many folks typed on how to do jobs on this site, I'd make little to no money, because all my time and efforts would be on methods to avoid X Y and Z instead of focusing on the removal or I would refuse to do jobs because they weren't easy or straight forward..

That’s reassuring to know and see TDHP. Seriously, I wonder how something like that would work in a barn for coon since there are several Barn cats. I’m definitely interested in something such as that since a lot of my best places have cats but I have to trap 100 yards away from the barn when there’s fox and coon tracks right at the barn.

Might want to point out the our most deadliest killer is actually the domesticated/feral cat. Down here a manager/owner/etc is just as happy with a feral cat caught as he is a coon or possum, especially in quail country.