Re: Comparing rattlesnake venom
[Re: Grandpa Trapper]
#6540903
05/20/19 09:17 AM
05/20/19 09:17 AM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,018 Idaho, Lemhi County
Gulo
"On The Other Hand"
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"On The Other Hand"
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,018
Idaho, Lemhi County
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Grandpa -
I can't answer your specific question. I've been working with rattlesnakes in Idaho for over 40 years, and still catch, measure, and release a couple hundred of them every year. All rattlesnakes have more than 1 type of toxin in their venom. Of the two major classes of toxins, neurotoxins are prevalent in most elaphids while hemotoxins are more prevalent in viperids (rattlesnakes). There are exceptions, however. Also, every species of rattlesnake probably has 100 or more different toxins in their venom, potentially leading to a whole host of problems in a bite victim.
With all that said, I do remember hearing many years ago that in Idaho, the northern pacific rattlesnake (Crotalus oreganus) has more potent venom than the prairie rattlesnake (Crotalus viridis). In Idaho, the prairie rattlesnake is only found in Lemhi and Custer Counties, while the pacific rattlesnake is the species that is found in the rest of the state (so your Idaho Falls snakes are Crotalus oreganus). Too, I remember that young snakes have much more potent venom than adults, but, of course, the volume is reduced. Gets pretty complicated.
In my old age, I no longer have the reaction reflexes that I once had, so I no longer catch (by hand) the larger Idaho rattlers. They are simply too strong for me to handle and I worry about losing hold of the head. In thousands of hand-captures (I don't use a snake stick due to injury to the snake), I've only been bit once. That experience was not overly pleasant.
Jack
Books for sale on Amazon, Barnes & Noble etc. Poetic Injustice The Last Hunt Wild Life Long Way Home
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Re: Comparing rattlesnake venom
[Re: Grandpa Trapper]
#6541095
05/20/19 05:11 PM
05/20/19 05:11 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,191 uniontown pa
gutthooked
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,191
uniontown pa
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I wouldn't want to get bit by any rattler. One bit from any of them can kill you...
Don't limit your challenges Challenge your limits
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Re: Comparing rattlesnake venom
[Re: Gulo]
#6541302
05/20/19 10:05 PM
05/20/19 10:05 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 12,177 Montana ,Rocky Mtns.
Sharon
"American Honey"
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"American Honey"
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 12,177
Montana ,Rocky Mtns.
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Grandpa -
I can't answer your specific question. I've been working with rattlesnakes in Idaho for over 40 years, and still catch, measure, and release a couple hundred of them every year. All rattlesnakes have more than 1 type of toxin in their venom. Of the two major classes of toxins, neurotoxins are prevalent in most elaphids while hemotoxins are more prevalent in viperids (rattlesnakes). There are exceptions, however. Also, every species of rattlesnake probably has 100 or more different toxins in their venom, potentially leading to a whole host of problems in a bite victim.
With all that said, I do remember hearing many years ago that in Idaho, the northern pacific rattlesnake (Crotalus oreganus) has more potent venom than the prairie rattlesnake (Crotalus viridis). In Idaho, the prairie rattlesnake is only found in Lemhi and Custer Counties, while the pacific rattlesnake is the species that is found in the rest of the state (so your Idaho Falls snakes are Crotalus oreganus). Too, I remember that young snakes have much more potent venom than adults, but, of course, the volume is reduced. Gets pretty complicated.
In my old age, I no longer have the reaction reflexes that I once had, so I no longer catch (by hand) the larger Idaho rattlers. They are simply too strong for me to handle and I worry about losing hold of the head. In thousands of hand-captures (I don't use a snake stick due to injury to the snake), I've only been bit once. That experience was not overly pleasant.
Jack So interesting , Jack....I have to say Im relieved that I haven't needed to be so on guard in the years here in the northwest as I was in Florida. All I want to find is a rubber Boa around here to be happy about ! But thank you for taking the time to explain the amazing details of your studies. I had no idea it is so multi layered and complex. Makes total sense, though. On the surface.....
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Re: Comparing rattlesnake venom
[Re: Grandpa Trapper]
#6541343
05/21/19 04:15 AM
05/21/19 04:15 AM
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,826 N. Carolina
Scout1
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,826
N. Carolina
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One thing you experts may be able to answer for some of us woodsmen/women. If your out in the wild, say an hour from your truck, you get bit by a rattler, what's the best course of action? I'm sure it's not to kill the nearest doe deer, extract its liver, cut X's on the bite, suck the venom out, and apply the raw liver. Just always hear different remedies.
------------------------------------- DJT in 2024!
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Re: Comparing rattlesnake venom
[Re: Grandpa Trapper]
#6541386
05/21/19 07:36 AM
05/21/19 07:36 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 31,362 williamsburg ks
danny clifton
"Grumpy Old Man"
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"Grumpy Old Man"
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 31,362
williamsburg ks
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call ahead to the emergency room so they can get antivenom headed that direction. very few places keep anti venom on hand
Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
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Re: Comparing rattlesnake venom
[Re: Grandpa Trapper]
#6541389
05/21/19 07:50 AM
05/21/19 07:50 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 31,362 williamsburg ks
danny clifton
"Grumpy Old Man"
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"Grumpy Old Man"
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 31,362
williamsburg ks
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P.S. lots of people are scared to death of snakes whether they will admit it or not. if a black snake bites them they are in panic mode. or any other snake. many many non veneomous snakes will bite if you accidently put your hand on them or something. many many people can't tell a timber rattler from a garter snake. a venomous snake bite will leave two clear punctures in the skin. a bite from a black snake for example can cause some very minor bleeding but it will be from multiple holes.
Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
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Re: Comparing rattlesnake venom
[Re: danny clifton]
#6541400
05/21/19 08:06 AM
05/21/19 08:06 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 27,520 Georgia
warrior
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 27,520
Georgia
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P.S. lots of people are scared to death of snakes whether they will admit it or not. if a black snake bites them they are in panic mode. or any other snake. many many non veneomous snakes will bite if you accidently put your hand on them or something. many many people can't tell a timber rattler from a garter snake. a venomous snake bite will leave two clear punctures in the skin. a bite from a black snake for example can cause some very minor bleeding but it will be from multiple holes. This is one reason why medical protocols for snake bite stress observation prior to treatment.
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Re: Comparing rattlesnake venom
[Re: Taximan]
#6541584
05/21/19 01:38 PM
05/21/19 01:38 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 27,520 Georgia
warrior
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 27,520
Georgia
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Actually,potency varies widely among species and even between individuals within species.It can even vary day to day in one individual rattlesnake. More reason why observation is needed. While any individual bite may vary from "dry" to life threatening, adverse reactions to antivenin are known, older versions were notorious for it. Many milder envenomations like copperheads may not require antivenin at all. Though other medications and supportive therapy almost always are.
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Re: Comparing rattlesnake venom
[Re: Grandpa Trapper]
#6541585
05/21/19 01:41 PM
05/21/19 01:41 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 14,542 South Ga - Almost Florida
Swamp Wolf
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 14,542
South Ga - Almost Florida
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A big eastern dback has the capability of injecting nearly an OUNCE of venom during a bite. If that happens you can likely kiss your arse goodbye.
Thank God For Your Blessings! Never Half-Arse Anything!
Resource Protection Service
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