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Re: Characteristics of good lure [Re: Doug66] #6618392
09/16/19 01:23 PM
09/16/19 01:23 PM
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Southern Michigan
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trappergbus Offline
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X2 grin


Common sense catches alot of fur..
Pay homage to all you harvest..
Re: Characteristics of good lure [Re: Lazarus] #6618407
09/16/19 01:48 PM
09/16/19 01:48 PM
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Marion Kansas
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Yes sir Offline
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I think a lot of people would be surprised what they have if they would do som testing .

Re: Characteristics of good lure [Re: Doug66] #6618968
09/17/19 10:11 AM
09/17/19 10:11 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
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Maine
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mainer Offline
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Originally Posted by Doug66
Originally Posted by tbn
I think it is all hocus pocus to begin with. Who needs a lure to catch coon,rats,beaver,mink,etc? Number 2, there aren't any secret hocus pocus will catch every one that walks buy ingredients. Silver vine was suppose to be the cats meow last year,well??? There is an angle to make a sale when we read these things. Always an incentive or angle,always.

I have some secret Hocus Pocus.
grin

[Linked Image]


"...in a very few days we succeeded in taking over one hundred beaver, the skins of which were worth ten dollars per pound."
Jim Beckwourth (1856)
Re: Characteristics of good lure [Re: Lazarus] #6620145
09/19/19 05:29 AM
09/19/19 05:29 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,050
Mass
TDHP Offline
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TDHP  Offline
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Quote
I think a lot of people would be surprised what they have if they would do some testing .


^^lots would find out that it isn't so much the bait or lure it's the ability to actually trap the animal that is the big problem surrounding "good" attractants. Testing is the easiest part and not complicated at all. JMO, It's the time and investment that discourages and prevents them for making their own or for their own reasons. Learning/knowing what ingredients trigger certain reactions from the target animal takes time. Bottom line..a good bait or lure is a product that will get the animal there and keep it interested in what you have to offer. If you're going to try to define good bait or lure you can't leave out ones abilities/skills in trapping as a whole.


It is not hard by any means to get animals to respond to bait or lure and consistently get the reactions on purpose throughout the year. Lots complicate this by trying to put pages of ingredients into a bottle and then buy every ingredient that is the talk of the forums.

I don't have "Hocus Pocus", wish I did. I do have confidence though.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]




Smile, you're an expert!
http://tdhpwildlifecontrol.webs.com/
Re: Characteristics of good lure [Re: mainer] #6620164
09/19/19 06:35 AM
09/19/19 06:35 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,511
nunya,ks
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]


Abbra CaDabra

Re: Characteristics of good lure [Re: Lazarus] #6621741
09/21/19 06:21 AM
09/21/19 06:21 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,050
Mass
TDHP Offline
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Now I can ditch the tin foil hat and wear my wizard hat when making lure. Best advice that was given to me from an old trapper who made his own bait and lure was to learn to decipher what many think you need and think for yourself when attempting to achieve it. Back then it took me a while to maintain that discipline because everyone said you need x, y and z to do "blah". It's like when people ask for pros and cons from other makers baits and lure. So many variables come into play, you would need to judge it for yourself n the area you trap etc...

If you want a good lure, get that animal to an area and attempt to keep it coming back to exhibit the intended reactions. It's purdy fun when you can make the target animal do what you want on demand. That is a good lure IMO
[Linked Image]


Smile, you're an expert!
http://tdhpwildlifecontrol.webs.com/
Re: Characteristics of good lure [Re: Lazarus] #6623186
09/23/19 06:37 AM
09/23/19 06:37 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,879
Maine
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Mac Offline
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Maine
Lazarus
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I and others appreciate it. No matter what you or anyone else post about, there will be someone that has to dispute what you are talking about. Always.
Keep sharing and do not let the negative folks get to you.

Mac



Re: Characteristics of good lure [Re: Lazarus] #6623216
09/23/19 07:47 AM
09/23/19 07:47 AM
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nunya,ks
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Mac the Bible tells us not to idolize others.

Re: Characteristics of good lure [Re: Lazarus] #6623218
09/23/19 07:50 AM
09/23/19 07:50 AM
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tbn Offline
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By the way, I don't have anything against Tracy for those who want to read this in a negative way.

Re: Characteristics of good lure [Re: Mac] #6623261
09/23/19 09:00 AM
09/23/19 09:00 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,050
Mass
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Originally Posted by Mac
Lazarus
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I and others appreciate it. No matter what you or anyone else post about, there will be someone that has to dispute what you are talking about. Always.
Keep sharing and do not let the negative folks get to you.

Mac


^^^ Perfect example on what is wrong with bait and lure threads. Dispute? Sir, because opinions are different they are deemed negative? Or because those with different opinions don't run around playing follow the leader and yep others to death it's automatically perceived as negativity?


Quote
I love the cameras because I can send the lure maker the video and describe the lure and the conditions in which it was used. The lure maker can see for himself the animal's reaction.


^^^^?????? I to enjoy watching animals react to products that are doing what they were designed to do.

Sir,if you purchase the "appropriate, properly mixed,aged,texture,odor" or anything else that is said to be needed in a good lure and that lure has nothing but negative results on your line....how do you justify the characteristics of that lure being a "good" lure? Because.....said so? Not all trappers have the same area, population knowledge, ability or skill set. A good lure isn't going to trap the animal.


Quote
I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.


so again....^^^^^^JMO Good lure will get the animal there and continue to be of interest when it is there while getting the reactions that it was design to get. Nothing negative about a difference in opinion.





Smile, you're an expert!
http://tdhpwildlifecontrol.webs.com/
Re: Characteristics of good lure [Re: tbn] #6623549
09/23/19 06:02 PM
09/23/19 06:02 PM
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Maine
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Originally Posted by tbn
Mac the Bible tells us not to idolize others.



Because you appreciate something that a person posts, you idolize them. I disagree but your opinion is yours.

At one time you posted some interesting things. The last several months the majority of your posts belong on the toilet bowl site with all the other negative nelly folks.
I should give you the benefit of the doubt. Maybe you are having a hard time in life. But I have to say you always, always, always look for the turd in the punch bowl.
Kind of sad.
Read your Bible some more. It is not your job nor mine to continually be the judge of others. Or are you like most and only quote what seems to fit your mood.

Mac



Re: Characteristics of good lure [Re: TDHP] #6623552
09/23/19 06:02 PM
09/23/19 06:02 PM
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Maine
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Originally Posted by TDHP

Quote
I love the cameras because I can send the lure maker the video and describe the lure and the conditions in which it was used. The lure maker can see for himself the animal's reaction.

^^^^?????? I to enjoy watching animals react to products that are doing what they were designed to do.

Sir,if you purchase the "appropriate, properly mixed,aged,texture,odor" or anything else that is said to be needed in a good lure and that lure has nothing but negative results on your line....how do you justify the characteristics of that lure being a "good" lure? Because.....said so? Not all trappers have the same area, population knowledge, ability or skill set. A good lure isn't going to trap the animal.

Quote
I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.


so again....^^^^^^JMO Good lure will get the animal there and continue to be of interest when it is there while getting the reactions that it was design to get. Nothing negative about a difference in opinion.


TDHP, I'm still trying to figure out what exactly your "difference of opinion" is here. I don't see anything in what you've posted to be in dispute with what Tracy posted. You initially asked a series of general questions about who decides what is a good lure and what it means for a lure to be good. Okay, so these are meta-questions about how we define "good" and what constitutes "expertise or authority" when it comes to lure making and its use.

I didn't read Tracy's post in that sort of abstract framework. For me, it was a more fine-grained (no pun intended) discussion of what goes into the making and testing of lures, and the potential complications and complexities that are inherent in a lure's life cycle from conception to final product. Granted, that's a huge topic to tackle in the space of a few paragraphs, but I think Tracy did a wonderful job of introducing some of those issues.

if I haven't offended everyone thus far, here's a question to keep the discussion going: What advantages does emulsification provide for a lure other than keeping the ingredients from separating? Does the chemistry change thereby creating an entirely new odor that would be absent by simply shaking the bottle to mix the contents?


"...in a very few days we succeeded in taking over one hundred beaver, the skins of which were worth ten dollars per pound."
Jim Beckwourth (1856)
Re: Characteristics of good lure [Re: Mac] #6623554
09/23/19 06:03 PM
09/23/19 06:03 PM
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Maine
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^^^ Perfect example on what is wrong with bait and lure threads. Dispute? Sir, because opinions are different they are deemed negative? Or because those with different opinions don't run around playing follow the leader and yep others to death it's automatically perceived as negativity?

OK TDHP, I will not interrupt your self serving posts made to promote your business. I have not been trapping that long so it was hard to recognize your greatness as you see it. Good bleeping Lord.
I consider you quite negative but I suspect you just see yourself shining the light of wisdom. Maybe you a TBN could start up a forum for the real experts.
Russ Carman never ran cameras. He probably does not know squat compared to you. Whoops, I should have called TBN if I could recommend or praise a different lure maker. One that has forgot more than either of you.


Mac

Last edited by Mac; 09/23/19 06:08 PM.


Re: Characteristics of good lure [Re: Lazarus] #6623566
09/23/19 06:21 PM
09/23/19 06:21 PM
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,828
NNY
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Intermission. I need more popcorn.

Re: Characteristics of good lure [Re: Mac] #6623600
09/23/19 07:29 PM
09/23/19 07:29 PM
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Mass
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Originally Posted by Mac
^^^ Perfect example on what is wrong with bait and lure threads. Dispute? Sir, because opinions are different they are deemed negative? Or because those with different opinions don't run around playing follow the leader and yep others to death it's automatically perceived as negativity?

OK TDHP, I will not interrupt your self serving posts made to promote your business. I have not been trapping that long so it was hard to recognize your greatness as you see it. Good bleeping Lord.
I consider you quite negative but I suspect you just see yourself shining the light of wisdom. Maybe you a TBN could start up a forum for the real experts.
Russ Carman never ran cameras. He probably does not know squat compared to you. Whoops, I should have called TBN if I could recommend or praise a different lure maker. One that has forgot more than either of you.


Mac

Little spice to get the dust moving. Sir, I don't know what else to tell you other than you are 110% correct Mr. Carman has forgotten more than I'll ever know. The flip side to that is (progress not perfection) I don't believe there is such a lure. I couldn't begin to sift through his notes, nor do I need to. I spend a lot of time in the woods testing and do just fine when it comes to attracting the target animals and getting the reactions I want along with odor, blending and ratios. I respect but don't kizz arse it's not my thing. You have a great night sir and good luck this season.


Smile, you're an expert!
http://tdhpwildlifecontrol.webs.com/
Re: Characteristics of good lure [Re: Mac] #6623746
09/23/19 10:52 PM
09/23/19 10:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 3,838
Marion Kansas
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Yes sir Offline
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Originally Posted by Mac
Originally Posted by tbn
Mac the Bible tells us not to idolize others.



Because you appreciate something that a person posts, you idolize them. I disagree but your opinion is yours.

At one time you posted some interesting things. The last several months the majority of your posts belong on the toilet bowl site with all the other negative nelly folks.
I should give you the benefit of the doubt. Maybe you are having a hard time in life. But I have to say you always, always, always look for the turd in the punch bowl.
Kind of sad.
Read your Bible some more. It is not your job nor mine to continually be the judge of others. Or are you like most and only quote what seems to fit your mood.

Mac

I use to think tbn was a little too skeptical also but after 2 years of testing my formulations and commercial formulations and close to 300 hundred test sets, buying essential oils from some suppliers that some think walk on water that were definitely cut to make extra $s, and some of the things I've seen first hand I'm unfortunately starting to get skeptical myself.

Re: Characteristics of good lure [Re: Lazarus] #6623911
09/24/19 08:18 AM
09/24/19 08:18 AM
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I use to think tbn was a little too skeptical also but after 2 years of testing my formulations and commercial formulations and close to 300 hundred test sets, buying essential oils from some suppliers that some think walk on water that were definitely cut to make extra $s, and some of the things I've seen first hand I'm unfortunately starting to get skeptical myself.

Yessir
You make a good point. If you stick with this long you will become very skeptical about ingredients and lure makers. Sad but true. Ardell Grawe wrote in one of his fine method books many years ago about lures and lure making. I cannot recall exactly what he wrote but to paraphrase it was something like this: If I had to count the number of really knowledgable lure makers in the country I could do it on one hand.
He probably was not far off. My thoughts, maybe one could go to two hands today.

There is an incredible amount of promotion and hype in the lure business. I have no idea if you are old enough to have trapped in the last real fur boom. Probably not. If you are, you probably can remember the paper tigers that came out of the wood work. Well as crappy as the market is currently it is amazing the the industry is starting to mirror those times.
In a way one cannot blame guys for trying to figure out how to make some money from the game so they can still afford to trap. Cannot blame them, but do not have to fall for them.

One issue that almost never gets mentioned or thought about is the fur density where a lure or bait is developed or tested. If you live in Kansas for example (take a minute and do some research to see how many coyotes are harvested each year) it is a pretty good place to test lures on coyotes. It would not be a great place to test fisher lures but great for bobcats. Back over the past 50 plus years I have throughly tested lures that were the bomb in the Dakotas or Kansas for example that simply were average or below in areas with fewer animals. Test a fox lure Maryland and that lure may be some kind of super but might suck in New Hampshire and fox are not hard to lure. In fact a good many catches of fox and coyote have been made with simple edible baits. How often do you see guys selling fisher lure that have never seen one in a trap? How many guys do you see selling mink lure that are strictly blind set men if you press them. It is a funny business and not funny ha ha.

I probably should have remained quiet and maybe in the future I will. Every job I have had, a part of it is dealing with difficult people. I should know better than to attempt to convince a person against their will. When someone starts quoting the Bible and talking about hero worship I have to raise the Bull $hit flag. If you are smart enough to recognize when someone shares something that is sound and based on experienced, I do not think it is hero worship. But that is just my humble or not so humble opinion.
If all of you newbies had any idea of the caliber of the kind of information that used to get exchanged on this forum it would blow their mind. At one time there was a thread about lures and attractants that went on for pages. Guys with a lot of years on the line and not just perched in a computer chair studying video, joined in on that. Wish I had saved it. Times have changed. I have been blessed to have known some of the greatest trappers in the last 50 plus years that have ever been in the game. I honestly believe if Charlie Dobbins, Walter Arnold, Herbert Lenon, Sheldon Colvin, or Bill Nelson were on this forum there would be someone that would that would tell them they don't know what they are talking about or call them some name. I am friends with one guy that catches more water fur in almost any given season than most do in a lifetime and I have seen some dolt criticize his ideas and ridicule him on here. He only rarely posts. What a shame there are so many sexual intellectuals. We had a different way to phrase that on job sites back in the day.

An extremely large amount of people have become discouraged over the years and simply quit sharing. Those that continually strive to be of help get pretty tired of those that continually attempt to be the wet blanket on the party, and those that slyly attempt to self promote. Kind of like the guys that do not post all year until it is time to sell supplies. Ever see any of those? There is one forum that one can join and enjoy the atmosphere that is reeking in negativity. It is really cool. Check it out.
Over, out and done

Mac



Re: Characteristics of good lure [Re: Lazarus] #6623960
09/24/19 09:38 AM
09/24/19 09:38 AM
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AZ
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Mac, I have been on this site for about 5 years. I cat trap and try to utilize my glands every year. I have learned 90% of what I know from this site. I get on this site every evening with the excitement of learning a new nugget. You keep typing because there are a lot of trappers like me who can decipher the print and are very appreciative! You sound like someone everyone would like to have a b/s session with. Have a great day!
Oli

Last edited by gotya; 09/24/19 11:38 AM.
Re: Characteristics of good lure [Re: Lazarus] #6624058
09/24/19 12:28 PM
09/24/19 12:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 3,838
Marion Kansas
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Yes sir Offline
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Marion Kansas
Mac
I hope you keep posting. Anyone with 50 plus years of experience, that truly tests and understands what the animals are telling him and is not trying promote something other than the truth is worth listening to. We do have huge coyote #s here and I understand that average lures can catch a lot of coyotes with high populations. And considering that this is the only place I test right now I have to take that in to cosideration but I have tested enough in some areas to actually start to see individual coyotes personalities when it comes to testing and use the shy ones to test the effectiveness of the lures that show potential. Also by testing without a trap its easier to tell if they just came in for a quick sniff (which would have probably caught them) or if the formulation really got them fired up . I also make it a point to test some of the more popular formulations that are used and tested in all the different parts of the country so that I have something to guage the coyote reactions too other than just my stuff. Mac I tried to PM but it says your full up, I was going to send you some information that might have given you a little more idea where I was coming from in some of the above posts.Mac if you ever want to PM me or chat I'm all ears. Maybe I'm a bit on the inexperienced side and maybe I have dumb coyotes or maybe I've been really lucky but it seems in my area that it's not that difficult to come up with some stuff that will stack up against some of the more popular stuff out there even on the less responsive ones. And I only share that to help encourage others out there that might be interested in giving it a go themselves. I will say that one has to being willing to do a lot of testing not just a couple of positive responses and a coyote or 2 in a trap.

Last edited by Yes sir; 09/24/19 12:36 PM.
Re: Characteristics of good lure [Re: Lazarus] #6624489
09/25/19 01:22 AM
09/25/19 01:22 AM
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Mi, Mecosta
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.honestly I've become skeptical over the last couple years with the makers of baits, lures and urine suppliers. Why, because I hear a lot of bad about this industry about dishonest makers trying to make good on other trappers wallets..kinda sad if you ask me...who can you trust? Thought I could trust in several makers but lately I just hear bad about certain ones...I hear all the time you can't use this you can't use that but after testing what you shouldn't use for a couple seasons I've had better responses from coyotes in areas that never went to a commercial bait...not sure why...makes me wonder if it's put out there to side track a trapper so they can buy the baited and lures from a real maker.. Heck idk..


Thought I was a good trapper until I started trapping coyotes......
Thought I was a good bowhunter until I targeted mature bucks....
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