I've noticed this season most of my coyote hits have been on pipe sets. Even though I have far more dirt holes. It has me thinking as to why that would be. And my theory is, in a grassy area where the grass stands up, but a small area it is matter down, such as case here, I would believe they would sub consciously place there foot where it would be matter down on the trap. One thing I've noticed lately on my dirt holes is I get alot of misses. Even with the 9 back and 2 over. I also always make the pan the low spot with just a dusting over. However, I seldow miss on pipe sets. I don't know, it just a interesting thought.

I’ve been mainly setting roads and the edges of fields and the dirt holes have been phenomenal this year. Come later the Pipes will shine again. Of course using “natural” baits is easier in a dirt hole as well, lol. Hard to stuff an egg or game bird remains in a pipe.

I get em to ditholes just fine. Seems at times they step everywhere but pan. But I don't have that problem with pipes. U use eggs? That working out good for you?

Eggs and bacon is always good.

Yeah, fresh eggs off the nest work real good. Store bought eggs I’ll buy a week in advance and leave them sitting out for a few days then roll down the hole. May just be a Southern thing, I don’t know. Its natural though, so it works for me.
I’m still considered a newbie at this, but my trap locations in relation to the holes depend on the hole itself. I put my hole facing the location of where I think the coyote/critters are coming from and then put the set where I think he’ll step. Sometimes it might be right at the hole, but most of the time I set my sets what’s considered way back or off to the side. I’m nowhere near the trapper most are on here, but I’ll catch a critter every now and then.

Seems u got a good system in place. I used rabbit carcasses after butchered in a few step down dirt hole, where the hole runs perpendicular with the ground. Somehow they got robbed.

PM

I started using pipe set in woods. I use leaves in stead of grass. I cut them up . They work good.

My sets are generally 50/50 dirt hole vs Pipe Dream sets. I always worry about the weather or deer. Although, for ease of mind, I went yesterday to check 4 sets I have out for a landowner that wanted to watch them on camera, and all 4 fired after 4”+ of rain over a day and a half. 3 were dirt holes.

I'd never be so bold as to say one way or the other......but I WILL say this:

The pipes stay operative longer for me in inclement weather, so they get the nod........

Now I will shut up!

MZ

Well the pipe set I can at least see when snowed in, so I can find them unless the snow is to deep. I pull when it snows as the trapping is less fun when it's white land.

I use more pipes than dirtholes but probably more pipes. So much rain. I just about always use the pipe's bedding technique.

Maybe why it's so effective is it's more weather proof. I just stared at one of mine and noticed how my haylage looked and blended inn. I than thought how it laid down on the trap as weed stumble and grass stood up and thought how a coyote would flow into set.

That's been the basis behind Mark's use of it the entire time. He's always said it was the weather proofing that made it work for him. As you can see from his comment above. Curious, after you thought about that coyote flowing into your set did it?

Thanks Mark for talking too me as we walked out the demo. When we was at nta. I used to use dirt holes most of the time. But I went to pipe set in woods. My sets r working in the rain. The rain dont wash cover away. I went to the pan covers. They work great

I don't want anyone to think that I no longer use hole sets.......when I do, its in a drier piece of ground that I KNOW drains well OR when I am in Kansas! LOL

Trappers who see NO value in even ATTEMPTING to try this approach very simply don't trap in the same conditions that I do, and therefore have no NEED to try it. I get that......

That said, it does NOT mean that the set is a gimmick or an amateurish-type set (I've heard both) from those naysayers......as it has clearly proven itself FAR outside of my own usage and success.

They are just easier to put in for most guys......digging holes by hand or EVEN with an auger can wear a guy out (I'm 55! :)) Carrying dry dirt in bulk, or even peat, is FAR more involved than a couple bags of grass. I can usually get 30-40 sets out of ONE onion sack full. If an onion sack weighs two pounds, I'd be shocked.

What does waxed dirt or sand, bone dry dirt or even peat moss weigh for 40 sets? 80 sets? 120 sets????

In the end, EVERYONE is always hung up on or talking about the pipe. My PIPE DREAM set is about a bedding method, and steel screen and grass or ground hay covering, and a lure/bait metering device (pipe) that ALL work in concert together to give me a "weather-resistant" approach (NO SET IS 100% WEATHER-PROOF.....even a SNARE!)

What I like best about it is the maintenance free aspect. If we get 3 inches of rain, I probably have to tweak all of my hole sets........Pipe sets? I just drive right on by!

Set it and forget it!

MZ

I get my grass off the top of those chopper boxes. It's bone dry and already ground up. Makes a great trap covering.

That's been the basis behind Mark's use of it the entire time. He's always said it was the weather proofing that made it work for him. As you can see from his comment above. Curious, after you thought about that coyote flowing into your set did it?[/quote] Yes I did make a catch on that set.

I can get all the grass I want when we mow the roads. I can pick and dry enough to fill up 3 50# corn bags in no time. Pipe is cheap. Screen is what’s hard to keep in stock for me. The screen seems to take the most abuse after a catch, lol. Most of the time it’s chewed up in a ball. I always have a pipe set near a dirt hole just to make sure one is operable during our ever increasing wet winters.

Every set has its advantages AND its disadvantages. A good trapper learns when those advantages will gain him fur and when the disadvantages will cost him fur.

I experimented last Fall with NO screen and nothing under the pan. Dig, make the trap bed as Mark suggest. Takes some practice but jaws and levers pinched into ground. 4” hole under the pan. Covered lightly with grass clippings from lawn, dried. Can even see a little of the jaw outline. No waxed dirt. Nothing else. Admittedly the first 3 weeks no heavy frost or snow. Sorry leversNOT pinched in.

OK-What's a chopper box?

Around here a chopper box is a silage wagon.

Ok what’s silage?

Chopped corn or chopped sorghum . There are no dairy farm down here anymore very few people chop corn or sorghum. Probably why you don’t know you must be young

Haha! I wish.
Figured that what it was, just didn’t see how that would make a good cover. Seems like it would attract deer. Only dairy’s I know of are the one in Baconton, outside Leesburg, and the one almost to Americus.
Picking up cut grass after they mow the roads on the places I trap seem to work just fine.

Thanks for the info guys, I'm over at Coyote U now reading. I haven't tried this set yet but I will.....

I don’t think you would want to use silage as a cover. Haylage is same concept as silage but is chopped fine hay. Good cover

I am starting to use more on site grass and a pair of shears. It blends really well since it is same grass as surrounding area. Otherwise, I have a farmer that grinds big bales of hay that I can get a bag as I need.

I use lawn clippings. Cut and bag. Dump along the border fence line. Collect in burlap bags a week later and use in the fall/ winter.

I used this set heavily last fall. Pipe dream sets rock!!

Hey teacher did you put any light dusting of dirt on the grass.

I used mowed up hay and worked decent. But now I'm using on site with a shears. I noticed too how it holds up in weather. Very maintenance free means more time for more sets. That's how I look at it anyway. But always fun for me to make different kinds.

I have done this, and it looks good, but I can't seem to even catch a cold here, so who knows!

John, describe in detail what you did. It could be the grass you used wasn’t dry enough. It could be the way the dog on the trail was faced as well as the tape trap you used or brand.If you use the metal pipe for your pipes it could be that problem. Need to use a PVC pipe.It could be the grass you used could’ve had some oil or gasoline contamination and you didn’t realize it.

Why would you not use Mark's pipe dream way of bedding the traps, no matter what type set you make? The trap bedding is the key to success IMO even more-so than the pipe. Why make a set any less weatherproof than you need to?

When it was blowing hard I did put a light dusting of dirt over the grass and feathered it out into the surrounding grass and dirt. It worked just like the other sets. Some of the pipes had teeth marks in them.

I tried using John Graham’s little honey holders prior to putting it all together as the pipe dream set. Lordy, those honey holders got robbed from the sets 50% of the time. I even got some bamboo from Wolfdog 91 and wrapped the end with felt. Same thing. Coyotes, coon and whatever were getting them out of the ground. Then I went to pipe dreams with the plastic pipe, suspended trap, plan covers, haylage or grass and bingo, it was the winning combination.

I even made a dirt hole with a grass covered screen-over suspended trap and caught a coyote.

I'm brand new to trapping, and feel like my experiences shouldn't hold up very well. If I use a pipe it is PVC. I try to set only on coyote sign, with the wind in mind. I have used the "pipe dream" bedding exclusively, and feel like when I leave a set it is spot on, but I have zero confidence that I will catch anything. I only use grass that is in the direct vicinity of my set. My comment was only directed to the fact that I've used Mark's bedding technique (and love it) but haven't reaped the rewards so to speak!

I do...I love the simplicity, maybe that's my downfall!

John, post a picture of your set maybe two of Two different sets you did.

Hopefully they show up! Dirt hole was a reset after catching a coon. Trap is bedded pipe dream style with a light coat of dirt. Pipe set is just in grass next to a deer trail. Dang thing turned my pics!

Like The Beav said silage works great as a trap covering.

I trap on some dairy farms where they chop corn and blow it into plastic Ag Bags. Walked by a bag one day while temps were in the teens and noticed the silage that had been left on the ground was soft like walking on carpet. Put some in a bucket to try and it works great. If it freezes it breaks up much easier than frozen dirt. Works on any type set and I get it free.

John, go back and look at zagers website video. Make your set just like that. What you have is not the same thing. Listen to how he explains carefully.

I bought a dozen mesh onion sacks on line last year. I wait until a good rain storm slows the city from mowing the local park. Once the grass gets high, I go over and rake up half a pick up load, then lay it on the ground by my buddies out buildings until it dries a bit, then I bag it? I hang it n an old building until I am ready to use. The mesh bags allow it to breathe and dry all season long without molding.

Thanks I'll do that!

He's got a video on that set?

Do not make this difficult. Believe me, I have attempted to make trapping too difficult at times.
Stop and think about this. If you are using something in your pipe (which should be driven deeper and into some cover like Zagger does, instead of the many ways I have seen it presented) that tasted good (like you should be using) most animals are going to make more steps.
But then again if you have something they really want to eat in a dirt hole, they will make more steps too.

Zagger's pipe dream set is better than say a bait stick as someone mentioned. Never ever had one just lifted from the set like can be done with a bait stick.
In reality it is not the pipe dream that is the total answer to his success. (Admittedly it is my favorite set)

His system is what you should be looking at. His system and his way of teaching it is pretty darn hard to beat. Someone that wants to learn a good system for trapping should consider all of this. If you live where there is crap weather, why would you want to go to the land of milk and honey for their methods, other than it would be fun and give you some stories to tell. Trapping in the East is a beast most of the time.

Mac

[/quote]He's got a video on that set?[/quote]

Just Google pipe dream set, or search on YouTube. There's a bunch of them, but he is only in one of them, I believe.

Try set your trap 18" back off set. Then you will see a different in it.

Just Google pipe dream set, or search on YouTube. There's a bunch of them, but he is only in one of them, I believe.[/quote]
I did Google it. There is a bunch. But imo alot of them butchered it. Idk. I assume I'm doing it right cause it is working for me.

Next year I'm setting my traps back further, and I'm gonna try different bait, and lure.

Video is largely done and should be out in a week or so......I'll let people know when its on YouTube.

MZ

Thank you sir!!

Looking very forward to it!

2x^^^

On a whim or after thought while out checking traps....

I put out 3 sets how I think they should be from reading . I could not wait to try it. I don't have any pipe with me but there was some bamboo on sight so I used about 12" pieces of that. It was my last two days I had traps out in a stale area. ( had been trapping there for about a month).

I didn't have pre cut dried grass or pan covers so use what was around grass/ leaf's broken up. It took me a little longer to cut out the trap shape the first few times but it was easy to get them rock solid. It was raining and freezing weather. Many of my dirt holes filled with water and froze down . The pipe dreams didn't freeze and the bait stayed functioning.

I didn't catch anything besides a coon in those two days withbut know it's a very solid system that will keep functioning when weather shuts my other sets down. I will be utilizing these set much more in the future and this bedding style other sets.

Thanks Zagman for sharing your system. By chance are you going to make it to the Fur Takers Convention in Charleston Indiana this year?

Like anything, the more you make it, the more comfortable you will be with it.....and your confidence in the approach will work as well.....

On the FTA, NO, I am afraid not, I will not be attending.......it was a weird deal last year at the FTA in VA....there was no announcement of sign-up for 2020, no paperwork left at our booths like at most conventions.

At one point, another vendor came up and said they'd started signing people up the day before with no announcement or anything. When I went to the booth, the show was sold out and/or there were only spots at some distant building with NO A/C, and probably little traffic.

I was astounded that they chose a venue small enough that not all of us in attendance in VA could even sign up? That said, I am sure they had their reasons............

Like anything, there are three sides to every story, but at the time, I know there were several other vendors MUCH larger than me that missed the sign-up as well and were therefore NOT attending. Perhaps since then, they've figured out a way in. But, alas, I am out......

MZ

Mark are you coming to Michigan this summer to the National Trappers Convention.

I was afraid you were may not make it. Its 7 miles from my farm and I am excited. I was on your website and saw your last years schedule not realizing it was for last year at the time. I must admit I'm a little disappointed. I was really looking forward to meeting you and watching the master in action... Maybe one day I can allocate the funds and time to attend your classes. I have so much to learn.
Thanks for the reply. I'm looking forward to your YouTube demo when you can get it out.

Man, I WAS.......but then life got in the way. I no longer can attend and have to book for Iowa NTA!

MZ

Ttt

i use a riding lawn mower. there is usually a large amount of grass clippings on the mower deck when i am done. i just sack them up and put in the shed.

Like Mark and ADC said, it is the way you bed the trap and use the grass covering that really make the set. You can use the bedding method on any kind of set but I think it really shines on flat sets. For those that are not having luck getting canines to commit to the pipe, you really need a lure or bait that they want to lick and chew on. Any lure or bait that is advertised for use with M-44s will work well in the pipe. I have had good luck with Bonanza MIld, X-Factor, and will be using Grahm's Grab and Pull this season. I have one I make that gets them to grab that pipe too. If the canine grabs that pipe and tries to take off with it, the pipe will not come out of the ground. If its pulling up with its neck, its pushing down with its feet. Caught coyote.

Shockingly, my demo at John Graham's Coyote Days was, well, the Pipe Dream....

I've done a zillion demos, and was thrilled to say it was received very well here AND received well by many many top notch control guys, county control guys, and even USDA guys based on their input. I think that while it was developed out of necessity in the East, guys are seeing value in putting stink in a pipe that forces the animal to spend a lot of time at the set if it WANTS TO POSSESS what's in the pipe......and to get it, they pull, bite, lick, chew and try to remove it.....and in doing so make a million steps AND push down hard with their front legs as they pull up with their mouth and neck.

One guy at Coyote Days from Missouri approached me, shook my hand, and said he hadn't trapped in 20 years because of job, kids, etc. Last year, he used 100% Pipe Dreams and caught 71 coyotes on it.......and was tickled-pink with the simplicity, speed, and success of it....

I like those stories!

MZ

I think too many trappers get hung up on making traps invisible. Mr Coyote would smell a trap long before he saw it with a magnifying glass. A pinch of grass with a bit of dirt for wind protection works well.