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Re: How is this racist? [Re: Sprung & Rusty] #6785826
02/28/20 04:58 AM
02/28/20 04:58 AM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 907
Kenai AK
K
KenaiKid Offline
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KenaiKid  Offline
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K

Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 907
Kenai AK
The absurdity of this argument and the entire premise behind us is mind-numbing.

Cedarblock starts off with “Academically speaking, explain why a hat is NOT racist.” As said, that’s asking to prove a negative, which is about the most un-academic request one can make. It’s like “explain why that tree isn’t racist.” The premise is both counter-academic and illogical.

Then we have Boco reminding us 4 or 5 times that the issue is other people’s “historical reality,” as if we’re going to magically see the liberal light if he says it enough times. What does that have to do with someone’s choice of hat? Every single person has different history, and every demographic- race, sex, nationality, religion, occupation, and creed— has historical ups and downs. What Boco (and the liberal race-bating dividers) are proposing is that if someone makes a positive reference to the past, and that past includes hardship for any person or demographic, then that statement is thereby racist, along with the person making it.

So let’s put this principal to the test:

I got married in 2013. It’s a happy memory for me. Can I publicly celebrate that? Well let’s see. Alberta flooded that year, and Lac-Megantic blew up. Wouldn’t want to remind any Canadians of that trauma. Also a hurricane hit the Philippines and killed 5000 people. Let’s not forget the Boston Marathon Bomber. Way too much risk of flashbacks for too many people. Let’s not talk positively about 2013.

How about a bigger scale? What about a year like 1945, the end of WWII? Surely that’s something we could all celebrate right? The year we liberated Europe from Nazism, Asia from Japanese imperialism, freed hundreds of thousands from concentration camps, millions of soldiers came home, and the Allied nations were the most united in history? Well many of us could celebrate that, but what if you’re Japanese and your family was interned or bombed? What if your ancestors didn’t make it home? What if you’re Jewish and lost your family in the camps? Or what if you’re black and remember that the military was still segregated then? Can any of us celebrate?

We celebrate the 4th of July, our Independence Day. Is that racist? Since there was slavery then? That a group of white men dared to revolt against tyranny and forge a new nation unprecedented in model? Is the Constitution racist if there weren’t any minority signers?

Is there any period of history that doesn’t include hardship for someone? Is it ok to celebrate it anyway? Has the lie of political correctness become so pervasive that a positive reference to history can be seen as “racist” simply because history includes racism?

Is America’s whole history racist because it includes racism? Is it really unacceptable call a nation “great” if it’s history includes some ugliness? What is the definition of “great,” historical perfection?

Here’s the thing- if someone says something about a period of history that brings back trauma for me, that doesn’t make them a racist or mean they hate me. Maybe they had a good run and I had a bad run back then. Maybe I still am. Maybe my ancestors were treated wrong. It doesn’t mean it’s their fault. It’s not wrong for them to talk about it. They can celebrate something that I don’t. It doesn’t have to be fair; life isn’t fair. All it is is me choosing a victim identity.

Here’s what I think: my father isn’t perfect, but he’s great. My grandfather and my ancestors weren’t perfect, but they were great. The tough, salty folks who came home from “the war”, and every war, certainly aren’t perfect, but they are great, and the world is greater for for them. The folks who fought to end slavery, segregation and discrimination are great. And you know what, I dare to say we even had some racist slave owners who did some greatness in other ways, once upon a time. It doesn’t excuse their sin, but it also doesn’t negate their good.

This country of ours isn’t perfect. It never has been and never will be. We’ve treated people wrongly, and sometimes still do. But, God bless her, she’s also done a heck of a lot of greatness for the world. She was great, she is great, and we WILL continue to make her great. God Bless the USA, and keep making her great.

There’s my essay for the week.

Re: How is this racist? [Re: Sprung & Rusty] #6785830
02/28/20 05:15 AM
02/28/20 05:15 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,683
PA
G
gryhkl Offline
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Posts: 6,683
PA
Everything in the country has become political and many people look to point fingers at anyone who does not see everything as they do.
The MAGA hat is simply a pro-trump hat and is viewed the same as a campaign poster. I see nothing racist about it.
If somebody wore a hat that said vote for bernie, or dump trump, many from the other team would be crying and finding fault with it.

Too many Americans look for any reason to hate other Americans. The divisiveness is bringing us down.

Re: How is this racist? [Re: MNCedar] #6785831
02/28/20 05:15 AM
02/28/20 05:15 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,137
USA MN
Snowpa Offline
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Snowpa  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,137
USA MN
Originally Posted by MNCedar
Academically speaking, it would effective to state why it is not racist....

A group of people just nodding and agreeing with a statement isn't really interesting. There has been years worth of statements why people believe it is, I have yet to hear any explanation why it isn't other than comments such as those above.

Just my initial thoughts.

? OK


Never Confuse Stupid With Crazy
Re: How is this racist? [Re: gryhkl] #6785879
02/28/20 06:48 AM
02/28/20 06:48 AM
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 464
N.W. Pennsylvania
JTaddeo Offline
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JTaddeo  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 464
N.W. Pennsylvania
Originally Posted by KenaiKid


This country of ours isn’t perfect. It never has been and never will be. We’ve treated people wrongly, and sometimes still do. But, God bless her, she’s also done a heck of a lot of greatness for the world. She was great, she is great, and we WILL continue to make her great. God Bless the USA, and keep making her great.


IMHO.....She is the greatest experiment humanity has tried this time around....I'm very grateful to be here.


Originally Posted by gryhkl
Too many Americans look for any reason to hate other Americans. The divisiveness is bringing us down.


Exactly! And I wonder, deeply, if it is not being done deliberately. Now why would anyone want to see WE THE PEOPLE divided????? (that might be a rhetorical question)

I've been TOLD that only white people can be racist and that I need to shut up and listen......you can probably imagine how that went....

As I pointed out to them the bigoted and racist people that THEY ARE..... I'm still not moved although their position fills me with an urge to movement...

A racist hat huh? OK whatever you say. So I can promise that IF you assault me I will defend myself.....

On my riding leathers, my vest, I have a patch that say's "SPEAK ENGLISH OR GET THE F_&^ OUT"......I don't hear too many comments, at least not out loud..hahaha

I guess I'm just a racist biker trapper heathen piece of crap.......or not. I'm not loosing any sleep over it at all..


Keep your boots dry and your powder too.

I remember when a fur check was reality.....now I'm just trapping for the love of it.

Best Regards,

JT
Re: How is this racist? [Re: Sprung & Rusty] #6785891
02/28/20 07:03 AM
02/28/20 07:03 AM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 12,827
North East Kansas
Marty Online happy
trapper
Marty  Online Happy
trapper

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 12,827
North East Kansas
Anyone who does not feel blessed because they live in the best country in the world ought to go live elsewhere.

MAGA.

Yes, the divisiveness that comes out of the liberal camp is bringing us down. Just vote Trump and help keep things on track.


#4More!
Re: How is this racist? [Re: MNCedar] #6785899
02/28/20 07:15 AM
02/28/20 07:15 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 365
Central MN
MNCedar Offline
trapper
MNCedar  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 365
Central MN
Originally Posted by MNCedar
Academically speaking, it would effective to state why it is not racist....

A group of people just nodding and agreeing with a statement isn't really interesting. There has been years worth of statements why people believe it is, I have yet to hear any explanation why it isn't other than comments such as those above.

Just my initial thoughts.



Notice I quoted myself...….apparently I'm the only one who can do so without altering my words.

Also note that I did not mention the hat. While noting things, please also note that the bold sentence was omitted by everyone who continues to misquote me. When I used the word academically, I meant for me. EXPLAIN to me why it is not. I thought my question was polite.

The hat being a hat is not the issue for those who oppose it. The MAGA slogan is. I'm not asking to prove a negative. The red hat/MAGA slogan IS already deemed racist by some (refer to the bold sentence in my original quote.)

I used the word academic to suggest crafting an intellectual argument. Make a few points, use logic, etc. It was a response to the title of this thread and the first post on the page. Essentially, I meant use some words to explain yourself.

I politely asked a question about my INITIAL THOUGHTS and as a result have been misquoted and taken out of context for pages now.

Why is everybody so mad?
.

Re: How is this racist? [Re: Sprung & Rusty] #6785926
02/28/20 07:47 AM
02/28/20 07:47 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,936
La Crosse, WI
Macthediver Offline
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Macthediver  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,936
La Crosse, WI
Originally Posted by Desertambition
There is nothing wrong with the "Make America Great" slogan or cap. I think its a great slogan. I think that people who see that slogan associate it with self-identified white supremacists who support Trump and tout the Slogan. Some instances that have led people to believe Trump is “racist” are his previous comments about Mexican immigrants and his slow response to neo-Nazis rallying in Charlottesville, Virginia. However, there are good people who support Trump and likewise, I think there are good people who support Sanders.



Maybe just maybe if the hat did have "Make America Great" instead of the "Again" included..This post would make some sense..

MNCedar I get what your saying as I do Boco, don't expect most here to get it..

Mac


"Never Forget Which Way Is Up"

Re: How is this racist? [Re: Sprung & Rusty] #6785935
02/28/20 07:55 AM
02/28/20 07:55 AM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 3,075
Kansas
P
Pawnee Offline
trapper
Pawnee  Offline
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P

Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 3,075
Kansas
Pretty good. Thanks for the read gentlemen


Everything the left touches it destroys
Re: How is this racist? [Re: Sprung & Rusty] #6785958
02/28/20 08:15 AM
02/28/20 08:15 AM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 13,977
OH
Catch22 Offline
trapper
Catch22  Offline
trapper

Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 13,977
OH
The hat or slogan is not racist at all. Make America great again means Sovereignty, pride for our country, love for our flag, our anthem, our way of life. It means to stop sending jobs overseas and manufacturing here. It means getting jobs for all people, including the Blacks, Hispanics and all minorities. It means ending division, coming together not as hyphenated Americans, just Americans and that goes against the globalist agenda and scares the crap out of the left, so they scream racism. If a red hat or a slogan upsets you that much, you have bigger problems and should seek help imo because that's not how a mentally stable person should react.

Mac, how very condescending lol. It's not that we don't get what they're saying, we just know BS when we see it.


I wonder if tap dancers walk into a room, look at the floor, and think, I'd tap that. I wonder about things.....
Re: How is this racist? [Re: Macthediver] #6785968
02/28/20 08:24 AM
02/28/20 08:24 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,880
Three Lakes,WI 69
C
corky Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,880
Three Lakes,WI 69


MNCedar I get what your saying as I do Boco, don't expect most here to get it..

Mac[/quote]

Gee, I wish I was enlightened enough to get it or maybe we do get it and see it for the drivel it is.

Re: How is this racist? [Re: MNCedar] #6785976
02/28/20 08:34 AM
02/28/20 08:34 AM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,378
Wi.
D
Diggerman Offline
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,378
Wi.
Originally Posted by MNCedar
Academically speaking, it would effective to state why it is not racist....

A group of people just nodding and agreeing with a statement isn't really interesting. There has been years worth of statements why people believe it is, I have yet to hear any explanation why it isn't other than comments such as those above.

Just my initial thoughts.

Draw one parallel from a MAGA hat to racism, Just cause someone says it over and over does not make it so. Innocent until proven guilty. If you can not see that racism is just a catch word for the mentally challenged liberals to gather around then, YOU may be a liberal.

Re: How is this racist? [Re: Sprung & Rusty] #6785978
02/28/20 08:36 AM
02/28/20 08:36 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 333
Nebraska
Poorcoon Offline
trapper
Poorcoon  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 333
Nebraska
Guys! It's pretty simple name-calling. Have nothing so they call you names. Racist


"Nothing I like to do pays well." True Grit

"Revenge is in the hands of God, not mine." Revenant.
Re: How is this racist? [Re: corky] #6785989
02/28/20 08:47 AM
02/28/20 08:47 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,936
La Crosse, WI
Macthediver Offline
trapper
Macthediver  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,936
La Crosse, WI
Originally Posted by corky


MNCedar I get what your saying as I do Boco, don't expect most here to get it..

Mac


Gee, I wish I was enlightened enough to get it or maybe we do get it and see it for the drivel it is.
[/quote]

So it's just drivel if not valid that someone else can see it differently then you or others here do?

I can say I see the MAGA statement as drivel..I have someone who I respect if I say that to him I may well get punched..
And I am far from enlightened...just another dumb redneck ..

Mac


"Never Forget Which Way Is Up"

Re: How is this racist? [Re: Sprung & Rusty] #6785997
02/28/20 08:54 AM
02/28/20 08:54 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 859
Lincoln County, Missouri
ol' dad Offline
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Exactly what do you mean when you use the term redneck? I may be offended..

Ol dad


Started with nothing and still got most of it
Re: How is this racist? [Re: Macthediver] #6786004
02/28/20 08:56 AM
02/28/20 08:56 AM
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Posts: 4,378
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Diggerman Offline
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Originally Posted by Macthediver
Originally Posted by Desertambition
There is nothing wrong with the "Make America Great" slogan or cap. I think its a great slogan. I think that people who see that slogan associate it with self-identified white supremacists who support Trump and tout the Slogan. Some instances that have led people to believe Trump is “racist” are his previous comments about Mexican immigrants and his slow response to neo-Nazis rallying in Charlottesville, Virginia. However, there are good people who support Trump and likewise, I think there are good people who support Sanders.



Maybe just maybe if the hat did have "Make America Great" instead of the "Again" included..This post would make some sense..

MNCedar I get what your saying as I do Boco, don't expect most here to get it..

Mac

I get it, its all about hate. It was hate for Gov. Walker that drove people like Mac to vote a Dem gun grabber like Evers. Now we have to "make Wisconsin great again".

Re: How is this racist? [Re: Sprung & Rusty] #6786008
02/28/20 08:58 AM
02/28/20 08:58 AM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 2,073
TN/OH
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RM trapper Offline
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RM trapper  Offline
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TN/OH
I'm 37 years old, white male and married to my high school sweetheart who is African American and we have 3 beautiful biracial children. When we started dating in 2001 I thought it was a great thing that a guy from the hills of east Tenn (which is predominantly white) could be with a African American woman and nobody seemed to have a problem with it( I'm sure some did). You didn't hear much about racism and it seemed the country was more united than ever. I didn't vote for Obama but told my wife it was pretty neat that a African American became president even though we didn't agree with his policies. Unfortunately though he seemed to put us in reverse as far as race relations instead of the opposite. So from my some perspectives the MAGA could mean that we are gonna erase the damage done by the last POTUS. In the eye of the beholder

Last edited by RM trapper; 02/28/20 09:03 AM.
Re: How is this racist? [Re: Sprung & Rusty] #6786009
02/28/20 08:59 AM
02/28/20 08:59 AM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 2,811
La Vernia & Dallas TX
Mark June Offline
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La Vernia & Dallas TX
If someone wants to hate another people who treated them and theirs unjustly, history is plum full of examples to draw from. Pick one. If you know history.

My wife is polish heritage and as such she is a "slav".... the medieval Latin word for "slave." The Greeks had a similar term. Today we call these nation groups Russians, Ukrainians, Poles, Czechs, Serbs, Croats, Bosnians, Slovenes, Macedonians, Bulgarians, Hungarians, etc. = a bunch of "Slavic" people groups.
But they hadn't carved out nations much at that time period so there were just kingdoms more or less throughout the land.
Why'd they call a vast region of people slavs or slaves?

Because starting around the 6th century, a couple centuries after Rome is sacked by the Visigoths and the Roman Empire implodes after a millennium of power the world had never seen before that, chaos now rules over the lands for centuries - and these groups of "slavs," existed in Eurasia, a bad spot as it turned out geographically.

Slavs were smaller bands of people, sandwiched between fiercer bigger, stronger, groups. They often lived in inhospitable places, trying not to be taken capture or killed.
Mongols, Persians (Turks) and Huns from their east would raid the slavs and pillage and _______.
Visigoths, Vandals, Angles, Saxons, Franks, from their west and south would raid the slavs and pillage and _______.
Men were killed and tortured of course, or made "slavs." Women were often taken back, as spoils of war.... also as "slavs."

You can imagine how wonderful and rosy those days must have been like. "Little house on the eurasian prairie" kind of days no doubt.

There's a reason they don't teach history anymore. History might give someone a bit of perspective.
Or you can teach pieces of history, that give your narrative precedence and serves a specific purpose. That's what they do in "American" history classes now.

Sadly, there are some who cloak their righteousness with ignorance. They don't know what they don't know. And sadly, sometimes they don't want to know because they like what they like about what they like and don't know!
They may not know that the term ignorant wasn't a derogatory term historically.... until this recent century. It was simply a term meaning; a state of "not knowing."
Call someone ignorant today and see what happens. Modernists have now deemed this word offensive, because it may burst a head knowledge bubble.

Simply, all people groups have a heritage of bad, bad stuff and good, good stuff, and we're all sitting here today as that progeny.
If we choose to hate, it ain't hard to find a reason.

Thankfully, my wife doesn't hate me - because my Anglo ancestors probably had some of Donna's slav ancestors tending their stock, gardens, homes and more.



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Re: How is this racist? [Re: ol' dad] #6786024
02/28/20 09:09 AM
02/28/20 09:09 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,936
La Crosse, WI
Macthediver Offline
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La Crosse, WI
Originally Posted by ol' dad
Exactly what do you mean when you use the term redneck? I may be offended..

Ol dad


LOL What ever definition of that you see it as...Kind of the point of this post.. Maybe we don't all see things the same..Don't mean the other persons point of view is not valid to them...

I just know I got called a "Redneck" many times when I was in high school.. So someone must have thought I was their definition of that?? Also got call called "Punk" a time or too by some older folks.. Even was called a "Goon" wha tever that is? So maybe I misidentify myself as a individual and need others to tell me who I'am?

Mac


"Never Forget Which Way Is Up"

Re: How is this racist? [Re: Sprung & Rusty] #6786044
02/28/20 09:26 AM
02/28/20 09:26 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 7,194
Armpit, ak
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Dirt Offline
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Armpit, ak
The Census hirelings were here the other day and asked me what race I was. That is racism. I told them we are two PEOPLE!

Last edited by Dirt; 02/28/20 09:28 AM.

Who is John Galt?
Re: How is this racist? [Re: Mark June] #6786055
02/28/20 09:35 AM
02/28/20 09:35 AM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,067
IA
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teepee2 Offline
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Well it seems that the hat with the slogan MAGA is identified as racist by some people. So we are to explain why it is not. Some people identify the earth as flat, but it's not. Some men identify as women and some women identify as men, but biologically [academically] there're not. Also some people see the slogan MAGA as racist, but it's NOT. There I explained it in simple english for the people that are thick between the ears.

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