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Re: Magnetic field of coyote traps [Re: Kirk De] #6849722
04/21/20 07:36 AM
04/21/20 07:36 AM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,893
Houghton Lake, MI
strike2x Offline
trapper
strike2x  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,893
Houghton Lake, MI
Originally Posted by Kirk De
Originally Posted by strike2x
I was actually being sarcastic. I guess you can say i am thinking this is like a conspiracy theory of.sorts. my method of trapping is K.I.S.S. This topic reminds me a lot of the contaminated trap theory. I am not saying the magnetic field isn't there, I am saying everyone has it and some guys catch big numbers and some guys don't. Some guys have good catch percentage and some don't. I would rather make a set with confidence and catch coyotes rather than worry about what might possibly go wrong. To each his own.


Itís much easier to understand what works than why it works.



K.I.S.S. if it ain't broke don't fix it. I am a trapper not a scientist. All the science in the world won't catch more animals than good old fashion experience and confidence.

Last edited by strike2x; 04/21/20 07:37 AM. Reason: Misspelling

Wish I had more time to trap....
Re: Magnetic field of coyote traps [Re: Artrapper16] #6850128
04/21/20 01:42 PM
04/21/20 01:42 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 209
Lakes Region Indiana
L
loosanarrow Offline
trapper
loosanarrow  Offline
trapper
L

Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 209
Lakes Region Indiana
Kirk - Iím not arguing. Or at least thatís not my intent. Iím discussing and sharing what Iíve seen and sharing what my gut feelings are. Like I said, sometimes Iím wrong, and Iím leaving open the possibility that there is something to learn here.
Your decades of experience and thousands of observations do give you solid footing to propose something like this, but because of the age old bias issue, you or someone will need to carefully design tests (aka ďexperiments ď in science terms) that can isolate magnetism and have good controls and ďall that stuffĒ.
Perhaps youíve done that and it is ďin the bookĒ? Well, again, the ideas and observations of natural phenomena must be shared freely to be accepted by the ďrules of scientific inquiryĒ. Methods, processes, and devices based on those observations are products that can be copyrighted, patented, and sold as the case may be. Copyright is kind of a mixture - while you can copyright your words, allowing you to control who uses them as written, and how, the ideas they convey are not protected. Let me put it this way, until Iím convinced the underlying observations of natural phenomena are solid, Iím skeptical of paying for a book focused on the subject.
Just my thoughts. Not trying to argue or be confrontational.

Re: Magnetic field of coyote traps [Re: Kirk De] #6850176
04/21/20 02:28 PM
04/21/20 02:28 PM
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 135
Iowa
K
KJD357 Offline
trapper
KJD357  Offline
trapper
K

Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 135
Iowa
I wonder how all the big number guys catch all their critters without this knowledge. Can you imagine if theyíd just read the book? We mere mortals wouldnít have a critter left to catch.

All joking aside, I believe thereís a confidence pheromone aspect that plays a role in making big catches

Re: Magnetic field of coyote traps [Re: Artrapper16] #6851068
04/22/20 08:46 AM
04/22/20 08:46 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,669
Georgia
K
Kirk De Offline
trapper
Kirk De  Offline
trapper
K

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,669
Georgia
I drove to Guntersville Alabama yesterday and spent the day with a nuisance trapper. We tested MB 550ís, ring locking door cagetraps, swing bar trigger cage traps, and hanging Power door cage trap.
We found that the MB 550 trap has a high intensity magnetic field of 100 that ran perpendicular to the dog Across the trap from one lever pivot point to the other across the pan.
The magnetic field induction variance was five times lower than the trap that I used as an example in my book. This would explain why the trap has been so successful. Because the way the field ran It would be more likely for the animal to get caught if he were to try to dig up the trap. Lower induction variance is a tremendous advantage.There were no duke 550s to test.
I should have said Jaw pivot point.

Last edited by Kirk De; 04/22/20 09:09 AM.

The Real Reasons Animals Are Detecting Your Sets And Devices by Kirk Dekalb
https://amzn.to/2Hn1hxv
http://www.townsendtraps.com
Re: Magnetic field of coyote traps [Re: Kirk De] #6851076
04/22/20 08:59 AM
04/22/20 08:59 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,669
Georgia
K
Kirk De Offline
trapper
Kirk De  Offline
trapper
K

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,669
Georgia
Originally Posted by Kirk De
I drove to Guntersville Alabama yesterday and spent the day with a nuisance trapper. We tested MB 550ís, ring locking door cagetraps, swing bar trigger cage traps, and hanging Power door cage trap.
We found that the MB 550 trap has a high intensity magnetic field of 100 that ran perpendicular to the dog Across the trap from one lever pivot point to the other across the pan.
The magnetic field induction variance was five times lower than the trap that I used as an example in my book. This would explain why the trap has been so successful. Because the way the field ran It would be more likely for the animal to get caught if he were to try to dig up the trap. Lower induction variance is a tremendous advantage.There were no duke 550s to test.

I believe the stainless steel dog And the cast jaws, or just the way the trap is made, made the difference


The Real Reasons Animals Are Detecting Your Sets And Devices by Kirk Dekalb
https://amzn.to/2Hn1hxv
http://www.townsendtraps.com
Re: Magnetic field of coyote traps [Re: strike2x] #6852255
04/23/20 10:40 AM
04/23/20 10:40 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,297
Monroeville NJ
J
Jonesie Offline
trapper
Jonesie  Offline
trapper
J

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,297
Monroeville NJ
Originally Posted by strike2x
I was actually being sarcastic. I guess you can say i am thinking this is like a conspiracy theory of.sorts. my method of trapping is K.I.S.S. This topic reminds me a lot of the contaminated trap theory. I am not saying the magnetic field isn't there, I am saying everyone has it and some guys catch big numbers and some guys don't. Some guys have good catch percentage and some don't. I would rather make a set with confidence and catch coyotes rather than worry about what might possibly go wrong. To each his own.


This is an off the topic post. The kiss mindset is very important as long as the person understands it. A new trappers' understanding of KISS is a lot different than someone who has been catching for 50 years. When we all start off we start off at the same place, we Know-nothing, and it is ALL Rocket SCIENCE. As we learn rocket science isn't as hard as it once was, so our KISS changes. The more we know the more we do things without thinking about it. and many times we do not even realize we are doing it, both negative and positive. There are two mindsets, both work, JUST DO IT or UNDERSTAND WHY TO DO IT. Most folks are just do it. The problem is and this is more important in the ADC where I have to catch them all causing the problem yet not waste time and effort on catching the ones not causing the problem. and the problem is just doing it can come to a standstill when the animal doesn't want you doing it. LOL And at that point understanding the 4 W's, what, when, where, and why has to be understood. Human nature is I don't want to have to think about it, but until we learned it, we had to, and every GOOD trapper out there has thought about it to learn it, we just do not think about it after we learn it.LOL

I am not sold on the elictromagnetic field yet, as I am setting cages and everyone has higher readings outside and some inside and catching critters. But, that could be because of my way I do things or the 80/20 concept. I may be dealing with the 80 %, maybe the 20% will pay attention to it. So I am at least 6 months of criiter catchen before I say yah or na, but investigating it is making my job more interesting than the normal set a trap and take another back mindset.


Ron Jones
http://www.acpwildlifepro.net/
Rednecks Pride Game Calls / Outdoor Scents
Rednecks Pride Outdoors podcast
Friend me on FaceBook
Re: Magnetic field of coyote traps [Re: Artrapper16] #6852280
04/23/20 11:20 AM
04/23/20 11:20 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 762
Nebraska
silkyplainscoyot Offline
trapper
silkyplainscoyot  Offline
trapper

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 762
Nebraska
I have Kirk's book and have read it. I do believe it has merit but I think a lot of people are misunderstanding where the field really becomes a factor. He has said many times that there are only a few animals that can detect it, not all animals. Mainly K9's, beaver, and otter I believe. Also it becomes a learned trait so it's the older, mature animals that it really helps you out with. So you will be able to take many coyotes or the other animals that can sense this field, since they haven't had or learned a bad experience yet. Young and inexperienced so to speak.

Mr. Jones, I believe that's why your catching critters with a high reading on cages. Animals such as skunks, raccoons, or some of the other ADC critters in really makes no difference from what I understand.

I hope this helps individuals to understand what Kirk has been trying to say. If I'm off on my thoughts, please correct me Mr. DeKalb.


Last edited by silkyplainscoyot; 04/23/20 11:22 AM.
Re: Magnetic field of coyote traps [Re: Artrapper16] #6852383
04/23/20 12:55 PM
04/23/20 12:55 PM
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 135
Iowa
K
KJD357 Offline
trapper
KJD357  Offline
trapper
K

Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 135
Iowa
Iím going to run a very Unscientific Scientific test this next fall where I only make coyote sets with a confident attitude, and Iíll only use the set locations where I know that Iím going to catch a coyote. Iíll also be putting something so good down the hole that it doesnít matter what traps i use.

Re: Magnetic field of coyote traps [Re: KJD357] #6852437
04/23/20 01:57 PM
04/23/20 01:57 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 762
Nebraska
silkyplainscoyot Offline
trapper
silkyplainscoyot  Offline
trapper

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 762
Nebraska
Originally Posted by KJD357
Iím going to run a very Unscientific Scientific test this next fall where I only make coyote sets with a confident attitude, and Iíll only use the set locations where I know that Iím going to catch a coyote. Iíll also be putting something so good down the hole that it doesnít matter what traps i use.


If you read what I just said above you would understand that you are going to still catch coyotes and possibly lots of them. A lot of factors come into play for the field to actually become a problem. Your ground temperature will be less than 50 which will give you an advantage. The warmer the ground temperature the easier the field is detected. Having a reduced field helps catching mature animals that have associated it with danger.

Re: Magnetic field of coyote traps [Re: silkyplainscoyot] #6852464
04/23/20 02:26 PM
04/23/20 02:26 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,669
Georgia
K
Kirk De Offline
trapper
Kirk De  Offline
trapper
K

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,669
Georgia
Originally Posted by silkyplainscoyot
I have Kirk's book and have read it. I do believe it has merit but I think a lot of people are misunderstanding where the field really becomes a factor. He has said many times that there are only a few animals that can detect it, not all animals. Mainly K9's, beaver, and otter I believe. Also it becomes a learned trait so it's the older, mature animals that it really helps you out with. So you will be able to take many coyotes or the other animals that can sense this field, since they haven't had or learned a bad experience yet. Young and inexperienced so to speak.

Mr. Jones, I believe that's why your catching critters with a high reading on cages. Animals such as skunks, raccoons, or some of the other ADC critters in really makes no difference from what I understand.

I hope this helps individuals to understand what Kirk has been trying to say. If I'm off on my thoughts, please correct me Mr. DeKalb.



Youíre right on target.

Jonesie will come around with an Open mind that he has


The Real Reasons Animals Are Detecting Your Sets And Devices by Kirk Dekalb
https://amzn.to/2Hn1hxv
http://www.townsendtraps.com
Re: Magnetic field of coyote traps [Re: silkyplainscoyot] #6852934
04/23/20 09:18 PM
04/23/20 09:18 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,297
Monroeville NJ
J
Jonesie Offline
trapper
Jonesie  Offline
trapper
J

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,297
Monroeville NJ
Originally Posted by silkyplainscoyot
I have Kirk's book and have read it. I do believe it has merit but I think a lot of people are misunderstanding where the field really becomes a factor. He has said many times that there are only a few animals that can detect it, not all animals. Mainly K9's, beaver, and otter I believe. Also it becomes a learned trait so it's the older, mature animals that it really helps you out with. So you will be able to take many coyotes or the other animals that can sense this field, since they haven't had or learned a bad experience yet. Young and inexperienced so to speak.

Mr. Jones, I believe that's why your catching critters with a high reading on cages. Animals such as skunks, raccoons, or some of the other ADC critters in really makes no difference from what I understand.

I hope this helps individuals to understand what Kirk has been trying to say. If I'm off on my thoughts, please correct me Mr. DeKalb.


yes, you may be right that is why I mentioned the 80 / 20 concept, and I am seeing that maybe skunks may also be able to detect something don't know yet. meaning 80% will go into a trap no matter what, but 20% mostly older females with young at the den seems to avoid cages for no apparent reason seen. I will be putting this to the test in a month or so when the family unit calls start coming in.


Ron Jones
http://www.acpwildlifepro.net/
Rednecks Pride Game Calls / Outdoor Scents
Rednecks Pride Outdoors podcast
Friend me on FaceBook
Re: Magnetic field of coyote traps [Re: Kirk De] #6852940
04/23/20 09:26 PM
04/23/20 09:26 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,297
Monroeville NJ
J
Jonesie Offline
trapper
Jonesie  Offline
trapper
J

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,297
Monroeville NJ
.

Jonesie will come around with an Open mind that he has[/quote]

I am always looking for something to give me the advantage. My methods are based on behavior more than habits, So I will try to prove you right. I have no pride in how I catch them, just so I catch them LOL


Ron Jones
http://www.acpwildlifepro.net/
Rednecks Pride Game Calls / Outdoor Scents
Rednecks Pride Outdoors podcast
Friend me on FaceBook
Re: Magnetic field of coyote traps [Re: Jonesie] #6852998
04/23/20 10:22 PM
04/23/20 10:22 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 587
New York
P
ponyboy Offline
trapper
ponyboy  Offline
trapper
P

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 587
New York
Originally Posted by Jonesie
.

Jonesie will come around with an Open mind that he has


I am always looking for something to give me the advantage. My methods are based on behavior more than habits, So I will try to prove you right. I have no pride in how I catch them, just so I catch them LOL
[/quote]

I agree with Jonesie's above statement.

If this this is a magnetic field problem ,would not plastic catch traps solve the problem with the 20 percenters of the skunks?
I consistently set multiple traps of traditional wire cage traps and the plastic catch traps. There seems to be no rhyme or reason why the animal will choose one over the other. But, no sense in missing an animal when you have enough traps.
Just like using multiple baits and lures for nuisance trapping. I like to give options when at all possible. You never know what will peak an animals interest.
Also glad to here about the 550's testing out well. Thank you all for your input and knowledge.

Re: Magnetic field of coyote traps [Re: ponyboy] #6853036
04/23/20 10:57 PM
04/23/20 10:57 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,669
Georgia
K
Kirk De Offline
trapper
Kirk De  Offline
trapper
K

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,669
Georgia

Most plastic and PVC traps donít have a very reduced field going through the trap. Wire cage trap that has a reduced field going all The way through the trap that the reduction is over 50% create a calming affect to the animal. Heís not as afraid to enter the trap.


The Real Reasons Animals Are Detecting Your Sets And Devices by Kirk Dekalb
https://amzn.to/2Hn1hxv
http://www.townsendtraps.com
Re: Magnetic field of coyote traps [Re: Artrapper16] #6853050
04/23/20 11:07 PM
04/23/20 11:07 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,669
Georgia
K
Kirk De Offline
trapper
Kirk De  Offline
trapper
K

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,669
Georgia
PVC or plastic would be good. I think a trap thatís got a field reduction greater than the PVC Trap, would be better.


The Real Reasons Animals Are Detecting Your Sets And Devices by Kirk Dekalb
https://amzn.to/2Hn1hxv
http://www.townsendtraps.com
Re: Magnetic field of coyote traps [Re: silkyplainscoyot] #6853099
04/23/20 11:41 PM
04/23/20 11:41 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 365
Central MN
MNCedar Offline
trapper
MNCedar  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 365
Central MN
Originally Posted by Jonesie

This is an off the topic post. The kiss mindset is very important as long as the person understands it. A new trappers' understanding of KISS is a lot different than someone who has been catching for 50 years. When we all start off we start off at the same place, we Know-nothing, and it is ALL Rocket SCIENCE. As we learn rocket science isn't as hard as it once was, so our KISS changes. The more we know the more we do things without thinking about it. and many times we do not even realize we are doing it, both negative and positive. There are two mindsets, both work, JUST DO IT or UNDERSTAND WHY TO DO IT. Most folks are just do it. The problem is and this is more important in the ADC where I have to catch them all causing the problem yet not waste time and effort on catching the ones not causing the problem. and the problem is just doing it can come to a standstill when the animal doesn't want you doing it. LOL And at that point understanding the 4 W's, what, when, where, and why has to be understood. Human nature is I don't want to have to think about it, but until we learned it, we had to, and every GOOD trapper out there has thought about it to learn it, we just do not think about it after we learn it.LOL

Originally Posted by silkyplainscoyot
I have Kirk's book and have read it. I do believe it has merit but I think a lot of people are misunderstanding where the field really becomes a factor. He has said many times that there are only a few animals that can detect it, not all animals. Mainly K9's, beaver, and otter I believe. Also it becomes a learned trait so it's the older, mature animals that it really helps you out with. So you will be able to take many coyotes or the other animals that can sense this field, since they haven't had or learned a bad experience yet. Young and inexperienced so to speak.


Both of these quotes do an excellent job summing up the way I understand the book so far. I don't ever want to think in absolutes, I always want to keep learning. This is especially true with wildlife. That's how I can get better. So far I feel that the magnetic field concept is not saying that you either will or won't catch all the animals that sense it, but it will definitely come in to play with some of them. It is something that, over time, will show me how and when I can use it. It definitely provides much better explanations for refusals in certain instances. I think like Jonesie said, that then becomes wanting to understand why doing things a certain way can be successful.

Animals process their environment so much differently than humans. I know metal is made from elements found in the earth. But with that being said, is it fair to say that metal made by humans (fences, posts, gates, cages, traps) is extremely foreign to an animals environment? So foreign they can feel it.

I think of it as....They grow up around it, learn to live with it, grow used to going under fences/through culverts/ etc...but that doesn't mean that it never stops being recognized as foreign. An animal senses metal, for it is not natural (just like asphalt roads and building foundations), yet learns to live with it. An adult animal or one that becomes aware of trapping pressure, might then draw on that. Meaning that although he has sensed and perceived that metal his entire life, if he is put on edge or wary, he'll pull from his ability to sense that metal the same way he smells the air. It's how he perceives the world....through a combination of sensory feedback.

That is just something I thought about when I started reading the book.

Re: Magnetic field of coyote traps [Re: Artrapper16] #6854733
04/25/20 06:29 PM
04/25/20 06:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 62
Republic of CO
Cootswatter Offline
trapper
Cootswatter  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 62
Republic of CO
The Greatest Discovery For The 21st Century...


"I've come to chew bubble gum and to kick ars, and I'm all out of bubble gum." - Rowdy Roddy Piper - They Live
Re: Magnetic field of coyote traps [Re: Cootswatter] #6854775
04/25/20 07:08 PM
04/25/20 07:08 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,669
Georgia
K
Kirk De Offline
trapper
Kirk De  Offline
trapper
K

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,669
Georgia
Originally Posted by Cootswatter
The Greatest Discovery For The 21st Century...


You said it I didnít.
The title is called An Outdoorsmanís Greatest Discovery for the 21st-century
The real reasons animals are detecting your sets and devices

Last edited by Kirk De; 04/25/20 07:16 PM. Reason: Clarification

The Real Reasons Animals Are Detecting Your Sets And Devices by Kirk Dekalb
https://amzn.to/2Hn1hxv
http://www.townsendtraps.com
Re: Magnetic field of coyote traps [Re: Artrapper16] #6855223
04/26/20 02:14 AM
04/26/20 02:14 AM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,247
Ohio
W
Willy Firewood Offline
trapper
Willy Firewood  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,247
Ohio
Kirk - Some of your writings here are contradictory. Some are poorly explained. There seems to be no scientific support for your claims. How do you know what each species of animal learns or even can learn? How do you know unknowable information? Some of your statements are similar to statements by experts on Bigfoot. In your book do you cover these issues?

Re: Magnetic field of coyote traps [Re: Willy Firewood] #6855283
04/26/20 07:03 AM
04/26/20 07:03 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,669
Georgia
K
Kirk De Offline
trapper
Kirk De  Offline
trapper
K

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,669
Georgia
Originally Posted by Willy Firewood
Kirk - Some of your writings here are contradictory. Some are poorly explained. There seems to be no scientific support for your claims. How do you know what each species of animal learns or even can learn? How do you know unknowable information? Some of your statements are similar to statements by experts on Bigfoot. In your book do you cover these issues?

Thatís why I wrote a book. Thereís always a reference to go back to to explain that there was no reference to Bigfoot to cover and to cover the issues that you may find while trapping.

It explains how the trapper can take the opinion out of how well the trap will catch an animal. Understanding it will explain why ,which Will allow him to determine how he should proceed.


The Real Reasons Animals Are Detecting Your Sets And Devices by Kirk Dekalb
https://amzn.to/2Hn1hxv
http://www.townsendtraps.com
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