Re: What happens to suicides after death?
[Re: Wanna Be]
#7064671
11/27/20 09:30 AM
11/27/20 09:30 AM
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traprjohn
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If you are saved you go to Heaven...if not the other place. it. This is what the Bible says. And what true believers (the saved) acknowledge/honor. Until a person accepts Salvation and allows The Holy Spirit in, they won’t get it. And , Purgatory is not in the Bible.
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Re: What happens to suicides after death?
[Re: bowhunter27295]
#7064677
11/27/20 09:34 AM
11/27/20 09:34 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
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traprjohn
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And HE will wait on you forever.
Indeed, he waited on me 28 yrs!
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Re: What happens to suicides after death?
[Re: ]
#7064694
11/27/20 09:44 AM
11/27/20 09:44 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
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James
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A number of us have tried to answer your Q in sincerity. I hope it, in some small way, answers a bit of it for you. Prayers to God will answer more than we can. Truly. James, you continually seek God in logic, and you will not find Him there. That doesn't mean there is no logic to our faith. I see God in every complex ecosystem. Others find Him in other places in their lives. I used to believe it was me that made the decision to accept Christ. Maybe about 50/50 on God's part. I now believe it was 100% God. And please don't ask me to explain what I can't quite figure out. I'm ok with the mystery of an infinite God. I'm just glad that for some odd reason, I love the outdoors, love the smell of a wet muskrat pelt like crazy, prefer venison over beef, and think cow poo smells ok. God touches us one by one. The good news He doesn't stop trying to get our attention. Sometimes it's even through suffering to bring our pride to heal. That's not uncommon. You're probably closer to your Maker than you realize, and you're fascinated by your son the follower, yet your Greek taught logic is trying to put theology into systematic piles. Isn't it marvelous, above all else, that all of humankind has sought a creator? It's actually a strong argument for the existence of God. We can call you Thomas if you prefer but you know, he died a martyr because he would not recant what he had seen. We see the Father because we have seen the Son also. Not literally of course, but they didn't have a NT Bible then. We do. The OT is revealed to us through Christ. In Him were all things made. You, me, us, the earth, all. Understand faith stands right in front of you brother and we all accept and then try humbly to figure it all out. Not the other way around. By God's design. Blessings! Mark But Thomas also had to see for himself before he believed. Jim
Forum Infidel since 2001
"And that troll bs is something triggered snowflakes say when they dont like what someone posts." - Boco
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Re: What happens to suicides after death?
[Re: traprjohn]
#7064709
11/27/20 10:02 AM
11/27/20 10:02 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 42,261 Northern Maine
Bruce T
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If you are saved you go to Heaven...if not the other place. it. This is what the Bible says. And what true believers (the saved) acknowledge/honor. Until a person accepts Salvation and allows The Holy Spirit in, they won’t get it. And , Purgatory is not in the Bible. Purgatory, the condition, process, or place of purification or temporary punishment in which, according to medieval Christian and Roman Catholic belief, the souls of those who die in a state of grace are made ready for heaven.
Nevada bound
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Re: What happens to suicides after death?
[Re: James]
#7064717
11/27/20 10:09 AM
11/27/20 10:09 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
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James
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When I was a kid we said certain prayers to buy time off in Purgatory. Say a given prayer three times a day for a month, and you just bought yourself 396 days off in Purgatory.
In my youthful zeal, I once accumulated more than 25 years off in Purgatory, at the time probably more than my sentence would have been if my young life had been cut short. Since then, 25 years won't be a drop in the bucket of my sins.
You can see how some of this stuff looks to outsiders, can't you?
Jim
Forum Infidel since 2001
"And that troll bs is something triggered snowflakes say when they dont like what someone posts." - Boco
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Re: What happens to suicides after death?
[Re: James]
#7064720
11/27/20 10:11 AM
11/27/20 10:11 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 42,261 Northern Maine
Bruce T
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When I was a kid we said certain prayers to buy time off in Purgatory. Say a given prayer three times a day for a month, and you just bought yourself 396 days off in Purgatory.
In my youthful zeal, I once accumulated more than 25 years off in Purgatory, at the time probably more than my sentence would have been if my young life had been cut short. Since then, 25 years won't be a drop in the bucket of my sins.
You can see how some of this stuff looks to outsiders, can't you?
Jim Don't care what it looks like to others.Its the truth.Prayer is very powerful.
Nevada bound
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Re: What happens to suicides after death?
[Re: James]
#7064731
11/27/20 10:21 AM
11/27/20 10:21 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
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PSB1011
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Something like two-thirds of gun deaths in the US are suicides. The gun-grabbers conveniently omit this fact when complaining about gun deaths.
What I'm interested in discussing here is what happens to the soul (assuming there is one) after one commits suicide?
The Roman Catholic Church says that suicide is a mortal sin. If you die with an unforgiven mortal sin on your soul, you go to Hades. For eternity. (In contrast, what Catholics call a venial sin is a lesser sin, a misdemeanor, which can lead to punishment, but not for eternity.)
But my mom told me God doesn't consider what a person does while not in their right mind to be a sin. So if you kill yourself while suffering from mania, severe depression, schizophrenia, or the like, you won't be judged and punished by God. A form of a divine legal insanity defense. But what if you die believing you are Jesus? If you think you are Him, you couldn't have accepted Jesus. The head spins.
The Catholics' God also would let you off the hook if you repent and believe in Jesus before you die. (When I say "believe in Jesus" I mean "accept Jesus as my Savior.") So for instance, if you took poison but repented before it acted to kill you, God would not hold the suicide against you.
I don't know what Protestants and others think happens to a suicide. I'm interested in finding out.
Jim One should define suicide first. If one smokes ,knowing it can kill you, and then it does, is that suicide? If one does a daredevil event that can kill you, and it does, is that not suicide? If one habitually does something that can kill you, and it eventually does, is that not suicide? There are all kinds of things that can and do kill yourself suddenly, or over time that most of us do.
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Re: What happens to suicides after death?
[Re: James]
#7064740
11/27/20 10:37 AM
11/27/20 10:37 AM
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Joined: Sep 2020
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patrapperbuster
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What happens after death is beyond human comprehension
Till that day.....
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Re: What happens to suicides after death?
[Re: ]
#7064759
11/27/20 11:02 AM
11/27/20 11:02 AM
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otterdog
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Some folks can find a scripture for whatever they want to do.
Jim To my point of Teach Truth, Love Well or Preach the Word, the mottos of DTS; Scripture is about God and we have to be careful that we don't aim it too broadly at his image bearers. As an example most know John 3:16. What does John 3:15 say? How about John 3:17? The narrative of ALL the Bible is Scripture, not a Book or two. All is inspired and revealed to us centuries after it was written for His purposes, His Will, and His Glory. If we are truly grateful for His Grace (unmerited or undeserved mercy) than a humble heart will seek Godliness. A heard prideful heart will not. Simple as that really. We love our neighbors as ourselves and pray for our enemies because some portions of the Scripture are for teaching, reproof and training in righteousness (2 Tim. 3:16). We get in trouble when we as teachers of the Word stand too firm on the Bible, especially those who teach who don't read it in it's original language. The Hebrew and Greek is often more exact language than English. Often. Mark you are so right on with the original language thing. Once I started studying scripture from the original language I discovered I had been taught a lot of things incorrectly.
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Re: What happens to suicides after death?
[Re: James]
#7064764
11/27/20 11:07 AM
11/27/20 11:07 AM
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Joined: Oct 2012
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chickenwing
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When I was a kid we said certain prayers to buy time off in Purgatory. Say a given prayer three times a day for a month, and you just bought yourself 396 days off in Purgatory.
In my youthful zeal, I once accumulated more than 25 years off in Purgatory, at the time probably more than my sentence would have been if my young life had been cut short. Since then, 25 years won't be a drop in the bucket of my sins.
You can see how some of this stuff looks to outsiders, can't you?
Jim Were is that in the bible
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Re: What happens to suicides after death?
[Re: James]
#7064771
11/27/20 11:15 AM
11/27/20 11:15 AM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,249 Alaska and Washington State
waggler
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A number of us have tried to answer your Q in sincerity. I hope it, in some small way, answers a bit of it for you. Prayers to God will answer more than we can. Truly. James, you continually seek God in logic, and you will not find Him there. That doesn't mean there is no logic to our faith. I see God in every complex ecosystem. Others find Him in other places in their lives. I used to believe it was me that made the decision to accept Christ. Maybe about 50/50 on God's part. I now believe it was 100% God. And please don't ask me to explain what I can't quite figure out. I'm ok with the mystery of an infinite God. I'm just glad that for some odd reason, I love the outdoors, love the smell of a wet muskrat pelt like crazy, prefer venison over beef, and think cow poo smells ok. God touches us one by one. The good news He doesn't stop trying to get our attention. Sometimes it's even through suffering to bring our pride to heal. That's not uncommon. You're probably closer to your Maker than you realize, and you're fascinated by your son the follower, yet your Greek taught logic is trying to put theology into systematic piles. Isn't it marvelous, above all else, that all of humankind has sought a creator? It's actually a strong argument for the existence of God. We can call you Thomas if you prefer but you know, he died a martyr because he would not recant what he had seen. We see the Father because we have seen the Son also. Not literally of course, but they didn't have a NT Bible then. We do. The OT is revealed to us through Christ. In Him were all things made. You, me, us, the earth, all. Understand faith stands right in front of you brother and we all accept and then try humbly to figure it all out. Not the other way around. By God's design. Blessings! Mark So why does God seek out some people, like you and my son, but not others? I wouldn't be hard to find, by a divine being. Jim I don't know if M June is a Calvinist or not; I am not, and please guys do not derail this thread on that subject. However to answer your question, God seeks out everyone. II Peter 3:9 "The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance."
"My life is better than your vacation"
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Re: What happens to suicides after death?
[Re: James]
#7064774
11/27/20 11:15 AM
11/27/20 11:15 AM
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Joined: Feb 2007
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BuckMink
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Well, I guess this also could be if you believe once saved always saved you won't loose your salvation with calvinism doctrine. Which can lead to an entirely different thread but we won't further discuss that here. A person who is governed by the Holy Spirit walking with the Lord Jesus Christ should have the hope that suicide is not the only way. That God is bigger then ANY of our problems no matter how big WE might think it is, our mountain is only a mole hill to God.
“For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind” 2 timothy 1:7
Note, the sound mind.
The original Greek word translated “sound mind” here is sophronismos, and it appears in the Bible only this one time.
In other Bible translations, the word sophronismos is rendered “self-control” (ESV), “self-discipline” (NIV, NLT), “discipline” (NASB), “good judgment” (GW), and “sound judgment” (CSB).
Therefore a believer, has self control and discipline. Wouldn't suicide fall outside those bounds? Now only the LORD knows out hearts but it's a sin.
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Re: What happens to suicides after death?
[Re: James]
#7064789
11/27/20 11:29 AM
11/27/20 11:29 AM
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Aaron Proffitt
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I think we make the mistake of thinking God is a super-computer , where if you enter the right commands ( prayers , etc..) ; then you're golden . He's the most intelligent deity that's ever existed . I'm pretty sure he can differentiate , assess, and separate intentions, content of the heart , and so on.
Honor a Soldier. Be the kind of American worth fighting for.
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Re: What happens to suicides after death?
[Re: BuckMink]
#7064791
11/27/20 11:30 AM
11/27/20 11:30 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
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HobbieTrapper
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Well, I guess this also could be if you believe once saved always saved you won't loose your salvation with calvinism doctrine. Which can lead to an entirely different thread but we won't further discuss that here. A person who is governed by the Holy Spirit walking with the Lord Jesus Christ should have the hope that suicide is not the only way. That God is bigger then ANY of our problems no matter how big WE might think it is, our mountain is only a mole hill to God.
“For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind” 2 timothy 1:7
Note, the sound mind.
The original Greek word translated “sound mind” here is sophronismos, and it appears in the Bible only this one time.
In other Bible translations, the word sophronismos is rendered “self-control” (ESV), “self-discipline” (NIV, NLT), “discipline” (NASB), “good judgment” (GW), and “sound judgment” (CSB).
Therefore a believer, has self control and discipline. Wouldn't suicide fall outside those bounds? Now only the LORD knows out hearts but it's a sin. Whoa there Buck. Now you gave some translations there but what does it mean in Hebrew? It might just mean “song of thought be all for naught” or “your get up and go done got up and gone.” Better wait for someone to tell us.
-Goofy-
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Re: What happens to suicides after death?
[Re: James]
#7064796
11/27/20 11:36 AM
11/27/20 11:36 AM
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Joined: May 2016
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Foxpaw
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I didn't see this til this morning and have read the whole thing, so I'm already exhausted, lol. These threads draw me just like the crowing of a rooster draws the fox. Just think what a group of roosters can call up.
To me there is different types of suicide. I've been closer to some than I chose to be. Sometimes people allow themselves to be drawn into situations for different reasons, whether its their idea about what love is, or the glamorous lure of fame and stardom. Sometimes people allow themselves to be drawn into a relationship that they totally give their whole self to and they give their self worth away to another. And when that fantasy of love gets turned upside down by a outside force maybe like adultery, then they have been used up and its time to be thrown away. If they have nothing to fall back on, then they self destruct.
Sometimes people who like control and its always their way or else, when they have spent themselves and are no longer in control, because of some sort of twisted pride do the only way out they think is honorable. They may resort to such means as Saul and have his armor bearer stab him thru or let the police put him down. There is people that are so hard headed and in control they will not be denied. They use there suicide still as a form of control. Like I told one lady about her brother that killed himself, That was his last selfish grasp at control. If people truly knew what a terrible burden it puts on their family and loved ones they surely wouldn't do it. It sometimes leaves those who care with a terrible guilt and all those what ifs I had done this or that.
Then there is the narcissists that while he may take himself out but also take as many others with him as possible. Whether its some cult or just a self made maniac.
There is a judgement coming to us all, too many to cover here. But there is one judgement , the Great White Throne Judgement. There won't be any believers of any degree there. That is a judgement best to avoid.
Sometimes we don't know how bad off we are until we are spiritually drunk and fall into the ditch with a pig and the pig gets up and moves, thinking he is in bad company.
Surely religion must have some cures for the ailments of the world. A preferred way is that if we are condemned do away with the laws that condemns us. Just dissolve them into suggestions and then all will be well. There has been a lot of trouble about taking the 10 commandments off the court house lawn. The court house no less, if you go before a court of law what would you like the judgements to be based on, surely not some new fashions of some group that may or may not be here tomorrow.
So if I claim Gentile then does that exonerate me? Romans 2:12-16 12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
We get to thinking we are above the law and I can do anything I want and be forgiven, that is debatable but one thing that is not debatable is that all things I do are not profitable. Still its not how we get in those unprofitable things but how we get out. Many times we try to get out the same way we got in and only compound the problem.
As far as the natural laws go, sometimes if we fly an airplane long enough we start thinking we are defying gravity, but actually we are using another law called the law of lift. You can believe planes don't crash if you want!
God has some laws that was in action back in the Garden. Exodus 12 23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,
24 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
25 Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.
God himself honored that law, he gave blood which is the life. Jesus gave His perfect life to redeem that perfect Adam. Thus fulfilling life for life and it still stands. He gave the sign of the animal skin in the Garden.
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Re: What happens to suicides after death?
[Re: James]
#7064851
11/27/20 12:45 PM
11/27/20 12:45 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
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insanelupus
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James, .So why does God seek out some people, like you and my son, but not others?
I wouldn't be hard to find, by a divine being.
Jim In reference to this question and statement, you must answer 2 questions question first. ”Do I want to be found by God?" If your answer is no, the answers to your quoted question and statement are mute at that point. If your answer is yes, then a follow up question must then be answered. "Am I willing to earnestly follow God once found." If your answer is no, the answers to your quoted question and statement are mute at that point. If yes, congratulations, you are on a path to the answers you seek. Faith in Jesus Christ boils down to a relationship between the believer and his or her Creator and Redeemer. I liken it to simply wanting to squeak through the doggy door of Heaven, simply gaining entry, versus, longing to hear the words "Well done, good and faithful servant." Or maybe a better way is to say it like this: Many are willing to accept Jesus as their Savior. Far fewer wish to accept Jesus as their Lord. The difference is relationship at the heart and soul level.
"My feeling is this, give him plenty of time, plenty of birds, and a little direction, and he'll hunt his heart out for me. That's all I ask."
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