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Re: The Pipe Dream Set explained [Re: Wolfdog91] #6998930
09/24/20 11:40 AM
09/24/20 11:40 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 655
Central New York State
Z
Zagman Offline
trapper
Zagman  Offline
trapper
Z

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 655
Central New York State
Ha! I do what I can to affect the GNP!

MZ


Eastern Coyotes.......Western Numbers.

Check out Coyote U!

YouTube Channel: https://youtu.be/JGwORfXpwOo

www.coyoteu.com

Mark@coyoteu.com
Re: The Pipe Dream Set explained [Re: Wolfdog91] #6999579
09/25/20 03:36 AM
09/25/20 03:36 AM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 512
NE
P
plainstrapping25 Offline
trapper
plainstrapping25  Offline
trapper
P

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 512
NE
Most of my pipes are chewed up really good. Not that it matter. I've broken a good amount of them hammering inn ground. Don't matter Pvc is cheap.

Re: The Pipe Dream Set explained [Re: Wolfdog91] #7092637
12/16/20 05:47 PM
12/16/20 05:47 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 11,771
Amite county Mississippi
Wolfdog91 Offline OP
trapper
Wolfdog91  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 11,771
Amite county Mississippi
Ttt

Re: The Pipe Dream Set explained [Re: Wolfdog91] #7110500
12/29/20 11:18 AM
12/29/20 11:18 AM
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 6
IN
J
Joe dirtee Offline
trapper
Joe dirtee  Offline
trapper
J

Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 6
IN
Anyone ever have trouble with deer when using haylage as trap cover?

Re: The Pipe Dream Set explained [Re: Joe dirtee] #7110664
12/29/20 01:38 PM
12/29/20 01:38 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 507
SC Iowa
btomlin Offline
trapper
btomlin  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 507
SC Iowa
Originally Posted by Joe dirtee
Anyone ever have trouble with deer when using haylage as trap cover?


I haven't noticed any difference between grass covering and dirt regarding deer. If I use urine in a high deer density area, I'm asking for frustration regardless of set..........

Re: The Pipe Dream Set explained [Re: Wolfdog91] #7110999
12/29/20 06:34 PM
12/29/20 06:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,663
S.E. Ohio
M
M.Magis Offline
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M.Magis  Offline
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M

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,663
S.E. Ohio
Haylage is just grass, there would be no reason for it to attract more deer than anything else.

Re: The Pipe Dream Set explained [Re: Wolfdog91] #7111122
12/29/20 07:27 PM
12/29/20 07:27 PM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 10,723
SW Georgia
W
Wanna Be Offline
trapper
Wanna Be  Offline
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W

Joined: May 2018
Posts: 10,723
SW Georgia
No issue with deer using grass. Really no issue using urine...unless it’s fox urine. For some reason they are attracted to it more than any other.

Re: The Pipe Dream Set explained [Re: Joe dirtee] #7112520
12/30/20 04:40 PM
12/30/20 04:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,785
Georgia
K
Kirk De Offline
trapper
Kirk De  Offline
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K

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,785
Georgia
Originally Posted by Joe dirtee
Anyone ever have trouble with deer when using haylage as trap cover?


Depending on the stage that it’s in and what kind of Haylage it is could really affect it. Case in point would be high relative food value alfalfa hay Haylage. Whether it be wet or dry. They want to eat it. They’re hungry they’re looking for something to eat.


The Real Reasons Animals Are Detecting Your Sets And Devices by Kirk Dekalb
https://amzn.to/2Hn1hxv
Re: The Pipe Dream Set explained [Re: Wolfdog91] #7112611
12/30/20 06:13 PM
12/30/20 06:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 655
Central New York State
Z
Zagman Offline
trapper
Zagman  Offline
trapper
Z

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 655
Central New York State
If the question is about deer and the grass I use on my Pipe Dream, no way IMO there re any issues with deer. I mean I use a pinch, like the size of a tennis ball MAX.....I am only covering the steel screen and jaws of the trap, and a little on the levers. And like only an 8th inch or less......I can see bits and pieces of the steel screen and trap through the grass covering.

There ain't enough grass to feed a gerbil, let alone a deer! LOL

Even when I make a traditional winter "hay" set and spread a pile of hay out, I never noticed any issues with deer......we have a lot of deer, but I know that's a relative term.

People also accuse me of having a lot of coyotes in my area! LOL

MZ

Last edited by Zagman; 12/30/20 08:10 PM.

Eastern Coyotes.......Western Numbers.

Check out Coyote U!

YouTube Channel: https://youtu.be/JGwORfXpwOo

www.coyoteu.com

Mark@coyoteu.com
Re: The Pipe Dream Set explained [Re: Wolfdog91] #7112728
12/30/20 07:44 PM
12/30/20 07:44 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,628
indiana
W
wamp Offline
trapper
wamp  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,628
indiana
Wolf dog thanks for starting this been very interesting And glad Mark is being a huge part as well


"Keep your traps free"
Re: The Pipe Dream Set explained [Re: Wolfdog91] #7113049
12/30/20 11:31 PM
12/30/20 11:31 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 512
NE
P
plainstrapping25 Offline
trapper
plainstrapping25  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 512
NE
I am nowhere as prolific at catching coyotes as alot of these outstanding people. But in my observation. On my line. When I'm using waxed dirt in late winter when the ground is as hard as concrete. I notice coyote, fox, coon when approaching set, at times, feels the difference on its paw if does not step directly on pan. Probably takes its attention of attracant and on the bed. Even had dug up when trap as bedded rock solid. I do sift a little natural dirt over top. And alot of times provide guiding. I just know that in the freeze time of the season. My pipe sets greatly outperform all others by alot. So it really makes me think about why that would be. Last season my pipe sets where only about 25% of my sets. But produced 80% of my coyote/fox. I wonder Mark. Would 2 pipes be a good idea? like a double dirt hole. A little more foot movement. With weather as cold as is. Wanted to experiment with a bait in one. Than a call lure in the other

Re: The Pipe Dream Set explained [Re: Wolfdog91] #7113292
12/31/20 06:29 AM
12/31/20 06:29 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 655
Central New York State
Z
Zagman Offline
trapper
Zagman  Offline
trapper
Z

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 655
Central New York State
Try it and let us know....they way I look at the Pipe, by putting something in their that they want, it makes them linger, and makes them move their feet a lot as the try to get to goodies out. They pull and tug and lick and bite and just have to make a lot of tracks. I use grass on on my pipe sets as cover especially in freezing conditions........but I cant almost always get these into a sod field....you may not have that same opportunity based on your local. Perhaps you are in the Sandhills?

I rarely use bait AND lure at the same time....but since I skunk-up my bait this time of year, I guess I am, in reality, adding call lure to my bait. They still want it, and I haven't seen a need to NOT do it OR to add a second pipe.

But, like I said, try it and let us know!

MZ


Eastern Coyotes.......Western Numbers.

Check out Coyote U!

YouTube Channel: https://youtu.be/JGwORfXpwOo

www.coyoteu.com

Mark@coyoteu.com
Re: The Pipe Dream Set explained [Re: Wolfdog91] #7114265
12/31/20 07:49 PM
12/31/20 07:49 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 5,772
central Illinois
yoteguts Offline
trapper
yoteguts  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 5,772
central Illinois
Zags I played around with 2 and 3 pipes at a set. All ended up producing but didn’t set the world on fire. What I did have to excellent results with was taking a small 1/2” conduit pipe and driving it flush with the ground after poking a hole for it to start in. Then I would cover it. Holds the stink but not visible.
Object was to get the feet moving. I used it as a jaw guard with a tiny amount of lure in it. Mostly with double dirtholes or double pipe sets. Worked best on remakes.




I'm itchin' to see a coyote twitchin'.

More trappin' and less yappin'.



Member FTA & USSA.





Re: The Pipe Dream Set explained [Re: Wolfdog91] #7115000
01/01/21 07:33 AM
01/01/21 07:33 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 655
Central New York State
Z
Zagman Offline
trapper
Zagman  Offline
trapper
Z

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 655
Central New York State
Well, there you go! More than one way to skin a cat!

MZ


Eastern Coyotes.......Western Numbers.

Check out Coyote U!

YouTube Channel: https://youtu.be/JGwORfXpwOo

www.coyoteu.com

Mark@coyoteu.com
Re: The Pipe Dream Set explained [Re: Wolfdog91] #7115712
01/01/21 05:57 PM
01/01/21 05:57 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 21
NC
R
REDFISHER Offline
trapper
REDFISHER  Offline
trapper
R

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 21
NC
Don’t worry about not catching them in a remake. My 5th coyote from the same pipe set didn’t mind it at all. Neither did the other 4 and 2 foxes before him.

Re: The Pipe Dream Set explained [Re: Wolfdog91] #7143848
01/18/21 09:46 PM
01/18/21 09:46 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,383
Central Ohio
LT GREY Offline
trapper
LT GREY  Offline
trapper

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,383
Central Ohio
While I can remember the article, this is the first time I can remember (actually) seeing a video on the subject and this one by it's 'inventor', Mark Zagger.
The film was nicely done, using a variety of camera angles and edited film /photo inserts, which made it a joy to watch.
I have seen several 'You Tube versions' of the set, which were almost painful to watch, being that the trapper making it, butchered it so badly,
I was astonished that they called it a "Pipe Dream".
Look, if you're going to make a " Pipe Dream Set ", at least make it the way it was intended. . .not the way, you think it should be done.
I am not a big fan of You Tube trapping videos, due to the fact that for every good video out there, there are a dozen more with amateur ideas and methods, that,
IMO, do more harm than good.
It is hard to 'argue with success' and Mr. Zagger has cleanly shown the 'beauty of this set' wet, muddy and (somewhat) warmer conditions.
If my memory serves me right, (and it doesn't always) I remember him saying he ran hard for about three weeks or so and then, pulled up.
Here where I am, the bastardly conditions of winter, bring us rain, sleet, snow, freezing temp in the single digits and then a thaw, with more freezing rain throughout winter that a set even touching mud, can (and will) run a huge risk of being frozen solid if only along the jaws.
While I do use this set, I alter it in those conditions to where the trap is 'suspended' off the trap bed, while still being below ground level.
Once shown, this gives one a whole new perspective on trapping in frozen conditions without using salt, waxed dirt or other types of antifreeze methods.
Another method I have employed at this set, ( and actually anywhere one is blending in a set using dried / chopped grass) is to 'blend in the blend', meaning
a light top coat of another type of natural material, to break the outline of the first covering,
While that may seem excessive, those that have seen how I do it, will attest to how well it conceals the trap.
I have had a number of students bed a trap only two foot away from an (already concealed trap) without detecting it there, only to be shocked where I fired off the trap, after they were through.
In any event, I am happy to see Mr. Zagger do well with his 'Coyote U' in helping trappers become better at 'clamping a bracelet' on ol' Wiley as the coyote populations
in many places are simply getting out of control.
Thirty to forty years ago, we had a thriving fox population. Not so today. I seldom ever kill foxes and when I do, it always a regret and usually a mistake.

I do have one question to Mr. Zagger, if you're listening :
Where is the shot placement on the trapped coyote from I (assume) a .22 ?
It appears, (and I say "appears") from the film footage to be 'direct on', but I never see a lot of blood . . .and I have shot enough coyotes in the skull, to know that most bleed like a 'stuck hog'.
Just wondering if you are using 'stingers' and a temple shot or another shot placement.
Personally, I have gone to a lung or double lung with a .22 short. Most last but a few seconds with little blood loss.

Anyway, continued success with Coyote U and wherever life takes you !

LT G

Re: The Pipe Dream Set explained [Re: Wolfdog91] #7144146
01/19/21 07:00 AM
01/19/21 07:00 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 655
Central New York State
Z
Zagman Offline
trapper
Zagman  Offline
trapper
Z

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 655
Central New York State
Hey LT Grey!

Thanks for the kind words AND the "Siskel and Ebert-like" review of my YouTube video!

I did it for several reasons, one of them being what you pointed out: The other "pipe dream" videos on there were often cringe-worthy, and I felt obligated to show it the way I make it and why and how it works for me.

You pointed out something in your post that's quite interesting.......guys are always trying to change it, even before using it for the first time! There's a thread on here with over a million hits somewhere, and many of the questions from years ago when the article first came out were questions about changing it! Trappers are tweekers for sure, but my goodness, try it my way first! LOL

Of ALL the days I could have a producer ride with me! It was "Indian Summer"! It had rained most every day prior! Good for filming but NOT really showing the weather-resistant angle and why I developed the approach.

I live in Lake Effect rain and snow country. When you throw in elevation, we get freeze-thaw conditions even in early November. The freezing rain and snow is the type that even snare men hate vs. nice deep fluffy white snow. While that video doesn't depict it, most of my coyotes are muddy OR muddy and frosty vs.dry and fluffy like in the video! Heck, I was even remaking all of the successful sets, which RARELY happens! To that point, we've had snow cover up here for over three weeks, and its going no-where fast. This is why I get my coyotes "early" before deer gun season (five weeks long) and before the Lake Effect snow machine kicks in. If I don't get them early, I don't get them. Oh my, if we could EVER use snares up here.........I can only dream!

What people get hung up on is the dang pipe.......and that is only ONE component of this set. The bedding method, steel screen, and grass covering all are things I'd been doing for a decade or more before coming out with the "Pipe Dream" set. I wish I'd have left the word "pipe" out and just called it the "Dream" set! I made my T-bones, Grab and Die, poke holes, grass tuft/scent marking sets like this forever.......the pipe was the epiphany I had one day and started experimenting with it. At the time, I'd NEVER heard of any one using plastic/PVC at COYTOE SETS.
Of course, NOW that this set has had some traction, I've had a few people say on forums and such that they'd "been using pipes for years, nothing new!" LOL

That said, to your point......I use a LOT of salt with this set....even in early fall. I salt the top of the ground right on the 90-degree edge of the trap bed all around.....some of it falls into the bed....and while I've NOT found a way to salt the vertical walls as well as the horizontal top, I do try to get the salt into that dirt. THEN I hammer-bed it into place.

I do NOT feather-blend the grass outside of the bed.....in hay stubble, once it rains, my little 5 X 5 bed looks like a small place where hay was left in the field and flattened the stubble right there. It creates a perfect place to step as they approach my stink.......I know this is counter-intuitive, but I like the way the set looks AFTER a rain or heavy dew vs. dry, fluffy grass right out of the bag!

On the dispatch, glad you noticed that......YES coyote bleed like stuck hogs......and many do, but some, like in the video, just show a drop or two.

I use low-velocity .22 rounds.....CCI LR CB was what I used for years......no louder than a hand-clap. They've since come out with the CCI Quiet which seems to be the same round.

I did over 100-New York coyotes again this year, largely with this set and approach. I no longer make waxed dirt......just grass and peat moss for my dirt sets. One bag of yard grass can make 30-40 sets for me.....and it weighs about two pounds! And its free for most of us for the taking! Our ground is often rocky, which can make it a challenge to get a real good hole set in. Maybe I am getting lazy??? LOL Grabbing a pipe and a bag of grass is just so gosh-darned easy,

There are other parts of the country that don't get the moisture we do......and perhaps a guy doesn't have to dig the deep bed I do to "elevate" the trap off the bottom of the bed. Dirt and freezing dirt is the enemy, and my approach has the least amount of metal touching dirt as I can do while still having a solidly bedded trap.

Thanks again!

Zagman


Eastern Coyotes.......Western Numbers.

Check out Coyote U!

YouTube Channel: https://youtu.be/JGwORfXpwOo

www.coyoteu.com

Mark@coyoteu.com
Re: The Pipe Dream Set explained [Re: Wolfdog91] #7144980
01/19/21 05:34 PM
01/19/21 05:34 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,383
Central Ohio
LT GREY Offline
trapper
LT GREY  Offline
trapper

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,383
Central Ohio
Continued Success , again. . . and thank you for the reply.

Re: The Pipe Dream Set explained [Re: Wolfdog91] #7145738
01/20/21 03:46 AM
01/20/21 03:46 AM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 2,672
Ohio
W
Willy Firewood Offline
trapper
Willy Firewood  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 2,672
Ohio
An old maxim applies to Mark Zagger’s system - “I can explain it to you, but I cannot understand it for you.


FRAC LIVES MATTER
Re: The Pipe Dream Set explained [Re: Wolfdog91] #7146549
01/20/21 03:29 PM
01/20/21 03:29 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,593
KY
A
AnthonyT Offline
trapper
AnthonyT  Offline
trapper
A

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,593
KY
Here is a 24 pound tom I caught this morning in a pipe dream set. The set is dead center in a UTV two-track, right where the UTV trail leaves a hayfield and heads into the woods. Plenty of coyote sign there, but I'm happy with the cat.

[Linked Image]

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