Re: Trapping Methods: Times have Changed
[Re: andrews1958]
#7175290
02/09/21 03:10 PM
02/09/21 03:10 PM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,697 Nevadafornia
Lazarus
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,697
Nevadafornia
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While I agree trapping methods have certainly changed over the years, I think the obsession with cleanliness, etc. may have been, in some respects, a regional thing. In the intermountain west, many of the old timers set bare handed for coyotes, and didn't worry much about human odor, etc. I recall when my buddy and I gathered up our cat/coyote traps and started boiling them, my buddy's Uncle Charlie (and old wolfer from way back) came over to see what all the fuss was about. When we told him we were boiling our traps and then we were going to wax them, he laughed out loud and said he'd never heard of such a thing. I can cite to a dozen other old coyote trappers from the western states who all said the same thing.
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Re: Trapping Methods: Times have Changed
[Re: andrews1958]
#7175315
02/09/21 03:27 PM
02/09/21 03:27 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 12,468 South Ga - Almost Florida
Swamp Wolf
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 12,468
South Ga - Almost Florida
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Ive always looked at dyeing and waxing traps as a way to protect your equipment not as a way to control human scent. Dips and paint help with camouflaging from human eyes.
It is human ignorance to believe we can beat a predator's (or a beaver's) nose. It simply cannot be done. Their nose tells them what was there and how long it has been gone.
Thank God For Your Blessings! Never Half-Arse Anything!
Resource Protection Service
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Re: Trapping Methods: Times have Changed
[Re: andrews1958]
#7175326
02/09/21 03:33 PM
02/09/21 03:33 PM
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Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 5,535 West Central MN
20scout
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 5,535
West Central MN
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I agree with Swamp Wolf. As far as techniques and equipment goes will even go as far as comparing trapping to fishing. Your not trying to catch the fish but the fishermen who are trying to catch the fish. Good equipment is important but there is a limit to how much stuff you need to catch a critter or two.
Common sense is a not a vegetable that does well in everyone's garden.
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Re: Trapping Methods: Times have Changed
[Re: clintp1971]
#7175989
02/10/21 12:44 AM
02/10/21 12:44 AM
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Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 9,000 Indiana
Providence Farm
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 9,000
Indiana
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I have read some writers that encourage you not to breathe on the set!!! That’s crazy, and for years people believed that stuff. They still do. Look at all the sent elimination products and clothing that gets sold to deer hunters. Its obvious not many deer hunters are hounds men.
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Re: Trapping Methods: Times have Changed
[Re: Providence Farm]
#7176063
02/10/21 04:58 AM
02/10/21 04:58 AM
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Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 69 Qld Au
Rhino1
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 69
Qld Au
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I have read some writers that encourage you not to breathe on the set!!! That’s crazy, and for years people believed that stuff. They still do. Look at all the sent elimination products and clothing that gets sold to deer hunters. Its obvious not many deer hunters are hounds men. If your upwind they are always going to will smell you. Had a bowhunter with a few months experience recently telling me I need to buy a HECS suit so the deer can't sense my magnetic field!
"As far as I can tell, my place is right here..on the smart end of this rifle."
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Re: Trapping Methods: Times have Changed
[Re: andrews1958]
#7176096
02/10/21 07:06 AM
02/10/21 07:06 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,859 Pa
Wright Brothers
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,859
Pa
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Oldest trapper I've known dunked his traps in used motor oil. I think he missed the meticulous era.
I still have them, older than the members here except for that one guy. We have acidic soil and lots of moisture. To not treat traps would mean replacing often. But many here do that anyway.
I remember growing through the hocus pocus. What a fox pee stinking mess lol. But the book said so.
There are things many have learned scent and set wise, the peanut gallery don't want to hear it so they keep to themselves. The elders could teach if I shut up enough to learn.
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Re: Trapping Methods: Times have Changed
[Re: andrews1958]
#7176207
02/10/21 09:08 AM
02/10/21 09:08 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 759 U.P. Michigan
Spade
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 759
U.P. Michigan
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Yes, times have changed, but trappers like Daley, Thorpe, Hawbaker and Dobbins , and others have caught a lot of fur in their day. Where would we be as trappers if we didn't have them writing books, and giving up some of their secrets?
It would be real interesting to see what they would write today, knowing what we know now.
24 years Army Medical Corps
I only want to be known as:
A great husband, a good trapper, and a great steward of the land.
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Re: Trapping Methods: Times have Changed
[Re: andrews1958]
#7176345
02/10/21 11:30 AM
02/10/21 11:30 AM
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Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 48 NE Neb.
FHSU_Wildman
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 48
NE Neb.
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A lot of the old methods about controlling sent, baits, lures, etc. I really think boiled down to an inability to actually statistically test their effectiveness. Just think about the process of testing a new lure. If you are testing it by placing it in a few locations with trail cameras, your first few nights might actually be random selection, but after that you have site fidelity that is going to make the encounter non-random, rendering it a biased sample. Once biased, you no longer have access to your parametric tests, leaving you with non-parametric test that are not nearly as powerful in detection of a type 1 or type 2 error. Plus, this is assuming you have lets say 20 cameras out to get a reasonable sample size.
Back in the '70s and '80s you would just have no way of knowing if something you did slightly different actually caught that animal the next day, or if it would have been there either way. And if there was not an animal in the trap the next day, you assumed something was wrong with the set, without the ability to KNOW (like with a trail camera) that there was actually no activity at the site.
There are just so many different variables that can be taken into account and tested, that really a Linear Regression might be you only good way of testing some of them, and at that point as a trapper, this has gone from a enjoyable hobby to a almost overly complicated and frustrating chore. And you really have no way to account for the possibility of a trap shy animal or other compounding condition complicating the testing further.
Cedar County
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Re: Trapping Methods: Times have Changed
[Re: SNIPERBBB]
#7176387
02/10/21 12:06 PM
02/10/21 12:06 PM
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,081 montana
red mt
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,081
montana
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Mostly because some of that stuff was either BS or intentional disinformation. Agreed, How many books you spose those old timers back in the day sold preaching there mystical methods . Not that they did not catch there share.,,, or it might be that now a days a critter can not go anywhere and not smell a human at least once. Might be familiarity that may be the case now a days ???
Kenneth schoening
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Re: Trapping Methods: Times have Changed
[Re: FHSU_Wildman]
#7176396
02/10/21 12:12 PM
02/10/21 12:12 PM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,626 Flint, Michigan
bhugo
trapper
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trapper
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,626
Flint, Michigan
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A lot of the old methods about controlling sent, baits, lures, etc. I really think boiled down to an inability to actually statistically test their effectiveness. Just think about the process of testing a new lure. If you are testing it by placing it in a few locations with trail cameras, your first few nights might actually be random selection, but after that you have site fidelity that is going to make the encounter non-random, rendering it a biased sample. Once biased, you no longer have access to your parametric tests, leaving you with non-parametric test that are not nearly as powerful in detection of a type 1 or type 2 error. Plus, this is assuming you have lets say 20 cameras out to get a reasonable sample size.
Back in the '70s and '80s you would just have no way of knowing if something you did slightly different actually caught that animal the next day, or if it would have been there either way. And if there was not an animal in the trap the next day, you assumed something was wrong with the set, without the ability to KNOW (like with a trail camera) that there was actually no activity at the site.
There are just so many different variables that can be taken into account and tested, that really a Linear Regression might be you only good way of testing some of them, and at that point as a trapper, this has gone from a enjoyable hobby to a almost overly complicated and frustrating chore. And you really have no way to account for the possibility of a trap shy animal or other compounding condition complicating the testing further. I wonder if anyone has actually tested whether a trap and set that is meticulously clean like used to be prescribed is any better than a set made without concern about scents with cameras and all?
Member MTPCA, FTA and NTA
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Re: Trapping Methods: Times have Changed
[Re: andrews1958]
#7176444
02/10/21 12:47 PM
02/10/21 12:47 PM
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Joined: May 2018
Posts: 10,966 SW Georgia
Wanna Be
trapper
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trapper
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 10,966
SW Georgia
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When we were kids, the trappers we learned from and tried to emulate would bed their trap, did a hole, and throw a pinecone squirted with Fox urine down it. We caught coons, fox, and bobcats. Wasn’t any coyotes to speak of back then. We never used bait or lure, just fox pee. We did go out one night collecting road kill rabbits, but that ended up with more aerial predators than anything else.
Last edited by Wanna Be; 02/10/21 12:48 PM.
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