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A couple questions about incidental catches #7184285
02/16/21 02:59 AM
02/16/21 02:59 AM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 115
AK
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Bushwhack Jack Offline OP
trapper
Bushwhack Jack  Offline OP
trapper
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Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 115
AK
So where I trap I have an area on my line where I set wolf snares and this year it has been overrun by caribou so I decided not to set my snares to avoid catching caribou. I use breakaway wolf snares. Well last weekend my wife and I went out to my cabin and I wasn't seeing any more caribou so I figured (hoped) they moved on. So my wife and I set up some of the wolf snares. Well, when I got home, a couple friends of mine informed me that they saw some caribou to the west of me. Well now I am a little paranoid that maybe I jumped the gun and put them out too early. So I am wondering what others think I should do and I am also wondering what is the legal process for turning in a caribou (or God forbid multiple caribou)? Do I need to butcher the caribou in the field or do I just bring the whole caribou out whole and where do I take the caribou? The Alaska Department of Fish and Game? The State Troopers? Do I need to put all the meat in game bags? Evidence of sex? What if the carcass is completely frozen? Sorry for all the questions? I just want to avoid as much trouble as possible. Thanks for any advice and/or input anyone has to offer.

Re: A couple questions about incidental catches [Re: Bushwhack Jack] #7184299
02/16/21 04:13 AM
02/16/21 04:13 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,492
Wasilla AK
HFT AK Offline
trapper
HFT AK  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,492
Wasilla AK
I got a moose a few years back that ended up breaking it's back, it was after a ice storm and the break away failed. Called the troopers, they told me to put it down, pull my gear in that immediate area and bring it out to the road for pick up by someone on the road kill list. If you do get one follow the guidelines in the trapping regs. Do the right thing, the troopers understand things happen and if you abide by the rules and laws there will be no issue. If your really concerned I'd make a run and drop those snares.

Re: A couple questions about incidental catches [Re: Bushwhack Jack] #7184301
02/16/21 04:31 AM
02/16/21 04:31 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,170
Interior Alaska
smalltimetrapper Offline
small greenhorn
smalltimetrapper  Offline
small greenhorn

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,170
Interior Alaska
We caught a large critter this year, frozen hard. Called trooper, he did not want it. Said he is done trying to salvage frozen critters. Said move your gear away at least 300 ft for remainder of the year. I guess it depends on where you are. I do my best to avoid such circumstances, but sometimes there is collateral damage. Sucks but true.

Re: A couple questions about incidental catches [Re: Bushwhack Jack] #7184359
02/16/21 07:57 AM
02/16/21 07:57 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,135
Juneau, Alaska
M
mad_mike Offline
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mad_mike  Offline
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Juneau, Alaska
I ended up with a big thing caught by the nose in a snare a few, five, six years back. I got in touch with Wildlife Conservation as quickly as I could. They told me how to proceed with my responsibilities and also notified the troopers as to who, what, when, and where. No trouble came of it for me. It does suck though.

Hopefully the caribou had truly left and you have wolves waiting for you.

Re: A couple questions about incidental catches [Re: Bushwhack Jack] #7184746
02/16/21 12:32 PM
02/16/21 12:32 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 115
AK
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Bushwhack Jack Offline OP
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Bushwhack Jack  Offline OP
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Posts: 115
AK
Yeah, thanks for the advice everyone. I am hoping they may just move on, but I may have to go pull them down soon.

Re: A couple questions about incidental catches [Re: Bushwhack Jack] #7185169
02/16/21 05:14 PM
02/16/21 05:14 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,085
user conflictville, Alaska 99X...
martenpine Offline
trapper
martenpine  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,085
user conflictville, Alaska 99X...
Be sure to take a pair of cable cutters (not wire cutters), you'll be glad you have them if you need to release (just to be clear I'm not suggesting just cut the cable, cut the loop) its just a lot easier to cut the snare off antlers or foot with cable cutters with a single snip rather than trying to gnaw cable with wire snips. .


When there is shot in the air, there is hope.
When in doubt, throttle out!
ATA, NTA, NATCA
Re: A couple questions about incidental catches [Re: Bushwhack Jack] #7185223
02/16/21 05:50 PM
02/16/21 05:50 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 31,507
McGrath, AK
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white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
white17  Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 31,507
McGrath, AK
I once found a medium sized ungulate with a snare around one side of his antlers. It was standing still but when I approached it became a whirling dervish.

I backed off and it became still again. I was fortunate enough to succeed at shooting that one antler off below the snare. Everyone left the scene none the worse for wear.


I once found a frozen solid larger ungulate. I felt pretty lousy until the biologist at the time pointed out that killing one wolf would save 10-12 of the ungulates.


Mean As Nails
Re: A couple questions about incidental catches [Re: martenpine] #7185289
02/16/21 06:41 PM
02/16/21 06:41 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 115
AK
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Bushwhack Jack Offline OP
trapper
Bushwhack Jack  Offline OP
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Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 115
AK
Originally Posted by martenpine
Be sure to take a pair of cable cutters (not wire cutters), you'll be glad you have them if you need to release (just to be clear I'm not suggesting just cut the cable, cut the loop) its just a lot easier to cut the snare off antlers or foot with cable cutters with a single snip rather than trying to gnaw cable with wire snips. .


Thanks for the tip. I will do that for sure.

Re: A couple questions about incidental catches [Re: white17] #7185290
02/16/21 06:41 PM
02/16/21 06:41 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 115
AK
B
Bushwhack Jack Offline OP
trapper
Bushwhack Jack  Offline OP
trapper
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Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 115
AK
Originally Posted by white17
I once found a medium sized ungulate with a snare around one side of his antlers. It was standing still but when I approached it became a whirling dervish.

I backed off and it became still again. I was fortunate enough to succeed at shooting that one antler off below the snare. Everyone left the scene none the worse for wear.


I once found a frozen solid larger ungulate. I felt pretty lousy until the biologist at the time pointed out that killing one wolf would save 10-12 of the ungulates.


Crazy story!

Re: A couple questions about incidental catches [Re: Bushwhack Jack] #7185294
02/16/21 06:43 PM
02/16/21 06:43 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 914
Alaska Northwestern
That Fool Offline
trapper
That Fool  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 914
Alaska Northwestern
I saw in one of the wolf trapping videos where a trapper added wire facing out each side of the snare loop, he called it a nose bump or snare bump so it will fall and close the loop of the snare before the non targeted animals get caught, not sure if it will work for caribou as the trapper made it to avoid moose catches

Re: A couple questions about incidental catches [Re: Bushwhack Jack] #7185360
02/16/21 07:28 PM
02/16/21 07:28 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 327
ak
nooksack Offline
trapper
nooksack  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 327
ak
Most times the snare is knocked down, then the foot of moose/caribou step through it and are caught.
Those antennae of Craigís are not worth the trouble. At all! Learn where not to set. Or learn to release moose and caribou which is a rodeo of its own smile

Re: A couple questions about incidental catches [Re: Bushwhack Jack] #7185418
02/16/21 08:08 PM
02/16/21 08:08 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 241
fairbanks,ak.
isnarewolves Offline
trapper
isnarewolves  Offline
trapper

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 241
fairbanks,ak.
Lots of great comments and thoughts to this thread. As i understand the question, what is the legal process if you "take" a caribou unlawfully by using a snare or trap". So what do the regulations state.
1. 5 AAC 92.220(7)(h) a game animal taken in violation of AS 16 or a regulation adopted under AS 16 is property of the state.
2. 5 AAC 92.220(7)(d) also says, A person taking game not listed in this section shall salvage for human consumption all edible meat as defined in 5 AAC 92.990(26).
3. 5AAC 92.095(12) states, by placing or leaving an active snare or trap set on land or ice that is with in300 feet of the site at which a moose, caribou or deer was killed as a result of being caught in a trap or snare; this prohibition applies for the duration of the regulatory year in which the moose, caribou, or deer was killed as a result of being caught in the trap or snare.
So what does this all mean?
Scenario 1. You come along on your trapline trail and you have snared a caribou and it is dead. What next? 1. Is the caribou frozen solid? My experience with large game that have died and froze solid is that, the meat is not edible for human consumption, because it has cooked from the inside out. Bloating, stomach acids and all that good stuff. Remove or inactive all snares and traps with in 300 feet of kill site for the duration of the regulatory year. That is all you have to do by regulation. 2. Is the caribou dead but still flexible? If so, you should gut it and surrender it to ADF&G or troopers. Again remove or inactive all traps and snares with in 300 feet of kill site.
Scenario 2. The caribou is alive in your set. This a little more complicated and involves your physical capabilities and your ethics, nether of which are noted in regulation. So you can release the caribou. If this works and the animal leaves, you can continue trapping or snaring at the site. If you cannot release the caribou you have two choices. 1. You can kill the caribou (note nothing in regulation state you have to do that). If you chose to do this then you must salvage it. You can gut a caribou and surrender it to ADF&G or troopers. Make sure all traps and snares are inactive with in 300 feet of the kill site before leaving. 2. The ethical portion. You can inactive all traps and snares with in 300 feet of the site where the caribou is going to die and leave. According to the regulations.
Other things you can do, but are not stated in regulations. Call ADF&G or the troopers and let them know your situation. Sometimes this is advisable if you in an area where others may see the dead caribou and report it. If you have let the authorities know about it, they won't have to respond to the call about the kill. Sometimes the authorities will assist you in your situation. Also if you are not clear yet on your responsibilities, they will let you know what they want (not always what the regulations state, but they are happy).
That's my two cents, take it for what it is worth.


Life is hard. It's even harder if your stupid!
Re: A couple questions about incidental catches [Re: Bushwhack Jack] #7185578
02/16/21 09:42 PM
02/16/21 09:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,170
Interior Alaska
smalltimetrapper Offline
small greenhorn
smalltimetrapper  Offline
small greenhorn

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,170
Interior Alaska
^^ What Al said ^^ I've had to release a big ungulate, it's not for the faint of heart. Or the intelligent, lol.

Re: A couple questions about incidental catches [Re: isnarewolves] #7185756
02/16/21 11:59 PM
02/16/21 11:59 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 115
AK
B
Bushwhack Jack Offline OP
trapper
Bushwhack Jack  Offline OP
trapper
B

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 115
AK
Originally Posted by isnarewolves
Lots of great comments and thoughts to this thread. As i understand the question, what is the legal process if you "take" a caribou unlawfully by using a snare or trap". So what do the regulations state.
1. 5 AAC 92.220(7)(h) a game animal taken in violation of AS 16 or a regulation adopted under AS 16 is property of the state.
2. 5 AAC 92.220(7)(d) also says, A person taking game not listed in this section shall salvage for human consumption all edible meat as defined in 5 AAC 92.990(26).
3. 5AAC 92.095(12) states, by placing or leaving an active snare or trap set on land or ice that is with in300 feet of the site at which a moose, caribou or deer was killed as a result of being caught in a trap or snare; this prohibition applies for the duration of the regulatory year in which the moose, caribou, or deer was killed as a result of being caught in the trap or snare.
So what does this all mean?
Scenario 1. You come along on your trapline trail and you have snared a caribou and it is dead. What next? 1. Is the caribou frozen solid? My experience with large game that have died and froze solid is that, the meat is not edible for human consumption, because it has cooked from the inside out. Bloating, stomach acids and all that good stuff. Remove or inactive all snares and traps with in 300 feet of kill site for the duration of the regulatory year. That is all you have to do by regulation. 2. Is the caribou dead but still flexible? If so, you should gut it and surrender it to ADF&G or troopers. Again remove or inactive all traps and snares with in 300 feet of kill site.
Scenario 2. The caribou is alive in your set. This a little more complicated and involves your physical capabilities and your ethics, nether of which are noted in regulation. So you can release the caribou. If this works and the animal leaves, you can continue trapping or snaring at the site. If you cannot release the caribou you have two choices. 1. You can kill the caribou (note nothing in regulation state you have to do that). If you chose to do this then you must salvage it. You can gut a caribou and surrender it to ADF&G or troopers. Make sure all traps and snares are inactive with in 300 feet of the kill site before leaving. 2. The ethical portion. You can inactive all traps and snares with in 300 feet of the site where the caribou is going to die and leave. According to the regulations.
Other things you can do, but are not stated in regulations. Call ADF&G or the troopers and let them know your situation. Sometimes this is advisable if you in an area where others may see the dead caribou and report it. If you have let the authorities know about it, they won't have to respond to the call about the kill. Sometimes the authorities will assist you in your situation. Also if you are not clear yet on your responsibilities, they will let you know what they want (not always what the regulations state, but they are happy).
That's my two cents, take it for what it is worth.


Wow! Very informative post. I am indebted to you sir. Thank you.

Re: A couple questions about incidental catches [Re: Bushwhack Jack] #7186272
02/17/21 12:55 PM
02/17/21 12:55 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 367
Anchorage, Alaska
broncoformudv Offline
trapper
broncoformudv  Offline
trapper

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 367
Anchorage, Alaska
What martenpine says about the cable cutters is spot on, thats a rodeo I hope to never encounter again and if I had those that one time it would have gone a lot quicker.

Re: A couple questions about incidental catches [Re: Bushwhack Jack] #7186326
02/17/21 01:29 PM
02/17/21 01:29 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 327
ak
nooksack Offline
trapper
nooksack  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 327
ak
The method I have used successfully several times in the past. Back when I was gung ho, and less intelligent hanging a lot of snares was explained to me by Spotter at a wolf trapping class at Twin bears camp in 2001 or 2002 not sure, maybe I'm less intelligent now =) but I don't hang snares in browse anymore.

I met some of the most generous solid trappers at that class that I have had the pleasure to spend time with.

I have 3 20' ropes with a 2" steel ring similar to the one on the end of the trap chain that is spliced into each rope. Make a loop with the ring drop it on the ground in the catch circle, when one foot is in the loop quickly whip slack in toward the leg and as the loop rises off the ground pull tight. Wrap around a tree and cinch with a truckers knot tight enough it can't come off. Toss the second loop on the ground and repeat. This time get a front leg if you have a back or vice versa. Now cinch everything tight until the target falls over or push them over. Cinch again if possible. Now carefully cut the snare off. loosen both lines and get out of the way. The steel ring keeps the line from binding and it falls off faster than a bowline or similar.

It's one of those things, that if you choose to hang snares you have to be responsible for the outcome. Cutting the snare from the anchor is not.
Still sketchy at best but it works for me. Definitely better to do it in the daytime =)

Re: A couple questions about incidental catches [Re: nooksack] #7186439
02/17/21 02:46 PM
02/17/21 02:46 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 115
AK
B
Bushwhack Jack Offline OP
trapper
Bushwhack Jack  Offline OP
trapper
B

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 115
AK
Originally Posted by nooksack
The method I have used successfully several times in the past. Back when I was gung ho, and less intelligent hanging a lot of snares was explained to me by Spotter at a wolf trapping class at Twin bears camp in 2001 or 2002 not sure, maybe I'm less intelligent now =) but I don't hang snares in browse anymore.

I met some of the most generous solid trappers at that class that I have had the pleasure to spend time with.

I have 3 20' ropes with a 2" steel ring similar to the one on the end of the trap chain that is spliced into each rope. Make a loop with the ring drop it on the ground in the catch circle, when one foot is in the loop quickly whip slack in toward the leg and as the loop rises off the ground pull tight. Wrap around a tree and cinch with a truckers knot tight enough it can't come off. Toss the second loop on the ground and repeat. This time get a front leg if you have a back or vice versa. Now cinch everything tight until the target falls over or push them over. Cinch again if possible. Now carefully cut the snare off. loosen both lines and get out of the way. The steel ring keeps the line from binding and it falls off faster than a bowline or similar.

It's one of those things, that if you choose to hang snares you have to be responsible for the outcome. Cutting the snare from the anchor is not.
Still sketchy at best but it works for me. Definitely better to do it in the daytime =)



Interesting. Thanks. I wish you could take a picture. I understand the basic concept of what you are saying but I am having a hard time picturing it in my mind. Not really sure how the loops formed from the ring just fall off once the snare is cut. Thanks for the tips.

Last edited by Bushwhack Jack; 02/17/21 02:48 PM.
Re: A couple questions about incidental catches [Re: Bushwhack Jack] #7186473
02/17/21 03:16 PM
02/17/21 03:16 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 327
ak
nooksack Offline
trapper
nooksack  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 327
ak
This picture is representative, Iím not home to take a pic of the actual rope. By splicing there is no knot to hang up when loosened. Plus the weight of the ring helps the loop fall faster. Before I added rings I had to track down a few ropes that hung on the hoof.
The loops donít come loose until you untie them from the tree and the critter stands up. Thatís why you want two legs tied on opposite ends of him. Keeps the critter secure while you remove the snare.

[Linked Image]

Re: A couple questions about incidental catches [Re: Bushwhack Jack] #7186476
02/17/21 03:20 PM
02/17/21 03:20 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 241
fairbanks,ak.
isnarewolves Offline
trapper
isnarewolves  Offline
trapper

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 241
fairbanks,ak.
What he saying once the snare is cut and the rope is loosen. the rope because it has a ring instead of a rope loop. it will loop will open quicker, thus saving you from having to chase and find your rope when the moose runs away.


Life is hard. It's even harder if your stupid!
Re: A couple questions about incidental catches [Re: isnarewolves] #7186498
02/17/21 03:39 PM
02/17/21 03:39 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,751
Alaska
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drasselt Offline
trapper
drasselt  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,751
Alaska
Originally Posted by isnarewolves
.
Scenario 2. The caribou is alive in your set. . 1. You can kill the caribou (note nothing in regulation state you have to do that). If you chose to do this then you must salvage it. You can gut a caribou and surrender it to ADF&G or troopers. Make sure all traps and snares are inactive with in 300 feet of the kill site before leaving. 2. The ethical portion. You can inactive all traps and snares with in 300 feet


This would be my last choice by far. Personally I would check with the troopers before I dropped the hammer. I believe there have been cases made in this scenario.


you can vote your way into socialism, but you will have to shoot your way out.
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