Diggerman they dont need a GUN registry they have an owner registry. Every time insta check is done, every time you buy ammo with a credit card, every time you buy a hunting or trapping license your saying I own a firearm. .GOV knows who the owners are. What else do they need to know if confiscation is made legal?

As it should be.

Temporary, (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman)! We have several documented actions within the last few years of ATF going into FFL books and photographing pages, and they have committed the NICS checks to a database. They have a registry in violation of federal law prohibiting it.

Dont get your panties in a wad, I do understand the gov over reach, really, point IS, once I walk out the door with my new gun, NOBODY knows if I still have it or what I might have done with it, I owe no one an explanation, the whereabouts, or even to whom I may have sold it to. Hence, NO registry.

The sad part is, a registry does exist today. Once the digitization happened, they have a big spread sheet they just turn the columns of info off on. @Danny, the agency you mentioned it must be fed commands to operate. So dont hate the machine, ask who fed the commands to it.

Also i feel so inclined to say, that you guys should never do the computer form when you buy a firearm. Ask for the paper copy, if they refuse go to another store. All my bound books are still paper, I plan to keep it that way.

Back when I would sell a used gun to upgrade, I used a simple bill of sale. I required the seller to show me a driver’s license to get the full name, address, and dl number. I had them sign that they bought the gun on the date at the specific time.

Now I no longer have any guns, so selling any is not a concern.

You could just run a copy of the second ammendment and provide it with the gifted gun. No signatures needed.

Diggerman.
You're wrong
technically what you think is As it should be.
But the records are kept at the store. Unless the store moves or closes.then the 4473 if paper has to be transferred to the Law. They don't destroy any records ever.
Now it's an electronic 4473 so you know those records are kept.

SMH, its like arguing with my wife, You too know what I am thinking,Records used to be kept for the period of 1 year, now the law reads 20 years. BUT, that is NOT what I said, I SAID that the minute you leave the store, NO ONE knows what you did with that gun, No law saying you have to tell a single soul, HENSE, the end of the trail, no registry.
YOUR registry is only a list of new gun buyers, I dont like it either, But , once you walk out the door, Its over.

I keep reading this looking for some sense or an upside, but it eludes me.

To sell a pistol here, you have to go to a FFL guy and do the background check. Rifles are like Digger says.

You can bet they know exactly who owns a pistol here...

In order to have a law, you need a way to enforce it, How pray tell does PA enforce the pistol law?

Best idea of this thread.

Being that I went thru the background check for all my pistols, I can't answer first hand info but will give you a scenerio...

You decide you're going to buck the system and NOT do the paperwork when you sell a pistol to someone. That pistol shows up at a crime scene. Guess who they're are going to pay a visit to, and guess who will get arrested?

The only way I would play would be with a pistol I bought new. I would not buy a private sale pistol if I was asked to do a check.

Thanks everyone!

Here in KS its legal to sell home made fire arms to another resident of KS if you stamp made in KS on it. ATF takes a dim view of it though. A commercially made firearm there are no rules about selling them other than the buyer cant be a felon and must be 18. It is a felony to enforce federal firearm law in KS but so far the cowards that passed that law are not insisting it be enforced.

very much a state by state thing
dealers can't sell to 18-20yo

however they can buy handguns in private sale

I was buying handguns at 18 as well

Wolfie - that form is problematic. It sets up the seller to be a de facto merchant creating liability where none should exist. As a seller always sell an item “as is with no warranty”.

That form is reckless. Whoever created it has no idea about the significance of the language. Seller creates multiple warranties, but then assumes no responsibility after the transfer of ownership takes place? That is conflicting and idiotic.

Read carefully the line “Seller has never been used . . . “

Digger - it appears that much eludes you.

I fully agree with the exception the last line.