After the recent thread talking about the beaver market this year, I was curious so I looked up the prices of beaver felt hats. The cheapest I could find was around $300, and they went up to around $1500, with an average I would guess around $600 per hat.
We are told that we can expect $20 tops for goods, a bit more if stretched and dried. Of course, this price is going to be below the cost of production for almost everyone. This has me scratching my head.
I have no doubt that the hat makers EARN their profits on these goods, and the middle-man buyers of raw fur have a significant up front cash investment to acquire the fur from trappers, so to be clear I do not disparage these folks from making a profit. What bothers me is that trappers who actually make all of this possible are being told that we must accept a loss to supply the market. I hear “Its what the market will bear”… I also heard that there is currently no stocks of beaver, they need beaver! Yet we can not expect to make any money, maybe break even as far as our out of pocket costs (fuel, traps, supplies, equipment like boats and boots, etc.) I really don’t know what to make of it, or what the solution is, or if there is a solution. I know that I personally will not produce something that I know going into it will lose me money. I do get the part about we trappers love what we do, but man, something is backwards here.
One thought that has occurred to me - at an average of around $600 per hat, an increase of $50 per hat - lets call it a raw material fee or something like that - that is a little less than a ten percent price increase to the end user (5% for a $1000 hat, 3% for a top end $1500 hat), and that puts beaver at $70 tops for the producer (aka trappers…). That would at least give trappers some profit for their efforts, and we all make money - not just the hard working hatters and the furbuyers who also work hard and have a big cash investment. I don’t know what the answer might be, but asking trappers to lose money so the downstream industries can make money does not sit well with me. And I feel like in the market update video the real message is “go get the beaver, you get have your fun and lose less money than other species while we all make money”. And fair enough on that message, many of truly enjoy beaver trapping. But I feel like we being hoodwinked into losing money so others can make money, and I can find other ways to get out in the field and lose money…Am I wrong? Interested to hear other perspectives.

No dressing costs for the manufacturers of those felt hats either.Other costs related to that kind of processing though.
In the fur industry,manufacturing profit was historically around 125%,and retail profit was around 175%.Dont have any recent stats,but I assume the profit margins dropped from those numbers due to the glut of product that plugged the pipeline for a few years.

Not sure but it likely takes more than one beaver to produce the felt for the felt hats.
One large beaver pelt dressed can produce a beautiful warm fur hat that wont blow off your head in a wind,or catch up in the trees when bushwhacking.
And $250 will get you a beauty.
Plus they look way better than those big dorky looking felt hats.

I have had several furbuyers ( that know I trap for income) tell me over the years that trappers are not very smart. Hope that helps.

Too many dumb trappers doing exactly that, trapping for fun.

I saved my best Beaver in a freezer for several years, threw them away when I couldn't get any offer that would come close to not insulting my effort. I don't bother skinning them without a firm commitment up front!

Considering that one has to separate the guard hair from the underfur then the underfur is compacted considerably to make felt it's going to take several pelts, I would guess ten or more, to make enough felt for just one hat. At 20 a pelt you're fast approaching the final price of a beaver hat.

Google the felt making process and you'll see that is a severe shrinkage process.

Add into that they very few of us are wearing beaver felt hats on a regular basis and its no wonder that there is no demand.

Dont sell them. All of us dont sell them. see what happens to your offers then. same thing with everything else. Russia and China will be buying again. When they do dont sell till a decent price develops. All we hear is how there is a demand but no money offered. DONT SELL

Warrior no body is paying a 20 dollar average. Thats for the best Alaska MN Ontario heavy blankets.

you need get out more. out of the east

Quality hats in general are a big ticket item and most are constructed of, relatively speaking, low cost raw materials.

Your best Panama hats are made from palm straw. But they straw has to be split into very fine threads, softened then hand woven and knotted to make the raw hat. The finer the split and weave the higher the end price. Cheap material, skilled labor.

Pure beaver? Or mixed species felt?

Lots of rabbit and wool, even some nutria on the low end. Beaver blends midgrade. But pure beaver not so much.

Even among the big buckle and boots folks I know pure beaver is rarely daily wear but Sunday go to meeting wear.

Personally I would love to see a return of men dressing to go out including hats. Same for the ladies. Our Walmart culture is disgusting.

I would have a dozen different fedoras alone.

Yet the only market there is for beaver is the hatter market pretty much. Most people in the lower 48 have no use for a beaver hat that you are talking about. They are too hot for most places. Who wants to pay $250 for a hat you can not ware? The felt hat market is the only thing keeping beaver saleable, and it has been that way quite a few years.

I did some research, here is a quote from a history of beaver hats:

“a single hat of castor quality required on average, four pounds of pelt (a typical beaver hide weighed about 1 ½ pounds) which would produce one pound of wool; 9 – 12 ounces of fur were used in the best hats”

“Castor quality” means pure beaver fur.

So a bit more than 2 average pelts for large hat of pure beaver felt.

And yet most of the high end beaver felt hats are Texas style cowboy hats. I guess cowboys like to be too hot!!! Lol
I think warmth of hat has more to do with style of hat than material.

The same can be said for a wheat farmer. There might be 10 cents worth of wheat in a loaf of bread. If the farmer wants more money they can make the bread themselves and try selling it. That must not be real profitable or every farmer would be doing that. We as trappers can either sell at market value, dont sell at all or make the felt hat ourselves and sell it.

My farmer neighbor MAKES A DECENT PROFIT on his wheat. I do not disparage the fur buyer and the hatter making money for their effort. You’re missing my point.

What did furbuyers tell me?

P.S. The hats that Boco makes are too hot for much of the U.S. population.

I guess it is what it is, if enough trappers are willing to sell at below cost to deliver them to the buyer, then the hatters have a deal that’s hard to beat, no need to offer more. I do understand just wanting to get out there and catch a few. If’n thats all the beavers they need, then the guys who enjoy it enough to sell at break even or a loss will keep them supplied and everyone is happy. I admit even if they had no cash value, I would probably go get a few mink just to braintan them and make a few special items for friends and family. To busy with the beaver for that though.

I agree

Ain't no gov't subsidies for trappers. That I know of anyway.

It's called USDA Wildlife Services.

If all the meat, milk, eggs, grain and lumber that we consume that was produced by producers who did not cover the cost of production for that year or years there would a a lot of real famine in the world and here too. The world is fortunate that fur is a luxury item for most and not needed to preserve life or health as waiting for disgruntled trappers could be a life threatning situation if it were really a needed commodity.

Bryce

This winter when I'm in Arizona and all those poor farmers blow by me on there $20,000 side by sides I'll try to remember that they can barely cover the cost of production. Then when the dust settles, I'll move down the trail on my 20 year old fourwheeler.

I have not trapped beaver as long as you guys. I recently found some old tickets from a country buyer from 2015. I got $15 top price for beaver in the round. I didn't even know how to skin a beaver back then. $20 for green beaver is better than I've ever gotten. I have a full time job that pays my bills and trap every evening all winter for fun. There may be others like me who have no idea that beaver trapping can be profitable . What sort of prices did green beaver bring before 2015 so I have a better feel for what I might be missing out on? I don't even realize that I shouldn't be satisfied with breaking even.

You are allowed to be satisfied with whatever you find satisfying that is legal.
And if you are just happy to get anything at all, and consider catching a few beaver each year your hobby and whatever the furbuyer gives you is less you have to pay for fun, I dont fault you for that. And perhaps there are enough guys like you to supply the hat makers. If so all is well that ends well. If the hat makers need more than a few hobbie caught beaver though, they will have to pay an actual wage because to hit it hard and bring in numbers, one must make beaver trapping a job and do it full time.

And I will just go ahead and admit it, I have issues with everyone else downstream making money while the trappers who actually supply raw materials to make that all possible are losing money. I can not participate in that. I don’t fault you for it though because I know how much we all like just being out there doing it. When you walk up to that truck to sell them, it’s your choice and if you are comfortable with it I tip my stetson to you, and I guarantee the fur buyer and the hat makers appreciate it.

Go look at some hats and see the XXXXX's on the inside ring of the hat to figure how many hides went into it.

Stetson always used to label their hats according to how many beaver went into it. A three beaver hat would have three XXXs a five beaver five XXXXXs, etc. The more beaver in a hat the tighter and thicker the felt, the more beaver in it the longer it would last and the more it would correspondingly it would cost. I'm assuming they still do but haven't looked at a new Stetson.

I assume that they actually figure a beaver is X number of ounces of felt, because otherwise you would have a huge difference between a hat made from five small beaver compared to one made from five super blanket beaver.

If they cant get beaver they'll use something else. Salesman and woman earn more money than they should.

"So, how much beaver makes an X?

The fact is, no matter what era your hat is from, we just don’t exactly know how much beaver fur is in there. The fact is, we don’t really have a sure-fire way to know what the Xs mean. Sadly, Stetson did not keep records for posterity on how much beaver to rabbit fur mix was contained in its products. It was an industry secret, in any case, and one that Stetson would not have made public during the hat heyday, anyway. An ancient Chinese secret, if you will (I know, that old TV commercial reference dates ME, too). So, the fact is we don’t know at all how much beaver fur was in Stetson’s hats. We don’t know with precision what the Xs mean.

Sadly, there is no way at all to ever ascertain just how much beaver is in any particular X quality hat. Further, that formula changed as the decades moved on. Triple X hats in the 1910s were of better felt quality that the XXX hats of the 1950s and the XXX hats of the 50s were far superior to those of the 1970s. It is patently obvious that the fur content and finishing process was radically different from era to era, so a three X hat from 1920 and one from 1970 are in no way at all similar in quality. Cost cutting in manufacturing and costs for materials were major reasons for this disparate quality.

Collectors do know merely by handling hats if the beaver content is high or low as there are telltale signs on quality to an experienced hand. But saying that a XXX hat from 1922 was as high as 50% is just a guesstimate. In fact, we are only “pretty” sure that a Stetson 100 is 100% beaver (but made of the most delicate part of the beaver, the belly fur) or that a Stetson 50 is 50% beaver, a Stetson 25 is 25%… well that is, at least, what Stetson used to say in advertising once in a while"

I can tell you what they brought stretched and dried the last 30 years at Canadian auctions. We will call Section III beaver " hatter beaver". In the mid 1990's Section III beaver averaged in the $20 area. This probably means that top price for section III beaver was around $30. Pretty much after that it was a rare year that section III averaged over $10. Beaver pretty much have been on a steady downhill slide since the mid 90's Even Northern better beaver have pretty much gone down with a few exception years. If you figure inflation, it is worse. For most people, beaver trapping for fur/ or felt is and has not been very lucrative. When you sold your beaver in the round you sold the hide, castors, and maybe carcass value. You probably didn't do to well on that $15 beaver in the round. If I was even remotely interested in trapping beaver for sub $20 averages, I would definitely skin them ( and I wouldn't slow down to do a good job) and sell the castors and try to find a market for the carcass. IMHO you haven't missed out on much.

My son paid a DJ $20 for a slow song so he could dance with a girl before we left an event we attended yesterday.

There are much easier ways to make $20 than trapping beaver. lol

"Son, you better put that old guitar steel trap away. There ain't no money in it and it will lead you to an early grave." (T.T.Hall)

Thats for sure, especially when it costs $20 to catch the beaver leaving a net profit of….

At least it is a way for the folks who just want to catch a few to not lose as much money on the adventure. But thats about all it is. Just cant help but wonder, would Groeny still run the route knowing ahead of time that the best they could hope for was to break even or not lose a lot of money? Would the hatters plan to keep making hats knowing that?

In the end, it seems enough of us love what we do enough to let others make money from our endeavors while we make none. I get it. I love it too. I may not be able to stomach that gut punch, but I won’t fault those who can. It is what it is. Rock on Groeny, hat on hatters…

What I've been hearing is that the decline in rabbit fur( hemorrhagic disease and war in Europe) is helping boost the beaver market. The felt trade is low on material so there is keen competition now for what beaver is being produced.

BTW, if I can average $20 on my stretched and dried beaver my true average will be closer to $35 with the bi-products that I sell. Depending on what I do with carcasses maybe more, as I use what I can't sell on the bobcat/civet line.

I'm guessing that's why he canceled a bunch of his roots last year

[quote][/quote] Well no way I can catch one for 20 dollars lol. Wa. is a cage only state making my own traps cost more than that. I will sure try and get a few beaver this year if I get healed up in time. I haven't been able to trap the last 4 years because of a bad aortic valve ,but that been replaced and Im feeling really good. I got 12 weeks of cardic rehab so by Jan. I'm gonna set at least the 3 cage traps I have lol.

I always hate this argument, yes I agree we all have money in traps, but unless they are disposable one use traps you can catch many a critter with the same trap. I hope you get healed up.

Beaver from my area were bringing $35 in 1996 . Adjust for inflation today that would be about $67 . Gas was around $1.12 here back then . So this season they are saying $20 tops on beaver - so what ? $12 average??? With $4.60 gas now ? If they need them so bad , let them go out and trap them. Once again the trapper gets the crumbs.

Could create an opportunity for the “fun” trappers. If the regular money folks don’t trap, the hobby guys might be able to take them to the truck and see just how high they will pay to get them to leave them at the truck.

THAT would be interesting .... if everybody played along till there was a commitment to price made.

Just say 10 guys show up with 20 beaver each and they all so no to $20/pelt. Would the option for a needy buyer be to let them walk or haggle on making them stay?

Wow. What a comment.

Jerry is far from dumb and he's trapping right now.

If you get 9.00 for a pelt and another 9.00 for the castor ..that'd an 18.00 beaver..add 2 bucks for the tail and you're at 20.0tge oul.sacs and skulls also have a market


That's a good price for a beaver.

Jerry sold his beave for 7.00 a pound last sason..except his large ones that the furrier wanted.

You left out half of the equation - how much does it cost Jerry to catch and process and deliver those products?

I do think calling Jerry dumb is too harsh and uncalled for. Anyone is allowed to lose money or break even on something they love, and if it does not bother him that that everyone else is making money while he does not or maybe barely makes a profit - maybe - then that is not dumb, it is a choice he makes. I might make the same choice on a few beaver just because it is in my blood. But my question remains, what is his cost? Comparing cost to price received is what determines “a good price for beaver”.

“He just likes doing it so it doesn’t cost him anything.”

lol

I got down a rabbit hole today looking up the process of beaver felt! LOL I kind of want me one of them hats, but I'll have to catch a lot of beaver to get one!

I have made simple felt with wool. Basic procedure is to layer it in cloth, roll or fold it, beat it, squish it, flog it, wet and dry it repeatedly, that kind of simple stuff. Made fairly strong felt about 1/4” thick. The lady who taught me did not want to try with beaver because her research always referred to removing the guard hairs. I think it would still felt with the guard hairs, it would just be prickly beaver. Felt. Prickly beaver felt…

I'd bet with a little research a guy could find a reasonable way to separate it. I ain't got time for it though...maybe if I live long enough!

I was going to post to his comment yesterday but decided to bite my tongue. It had me steaming most of the day.

I think there was a "How its Made" episode on it.
It was far more involved than I imagined, that's for sure.

https://youtu.be/EGOm9EnCyVk

Basic felt “primitive style”

I think I recall using 4 or 6 layers when I did it. Been a decade or two.

Maybe i will start making some beaver felt trappers caps and selling them to you trapperman folks. Maybe put a big ole magnebed logo on every one just for shameless self promotion, like sports teams do…

I’d like to offer my humble opinion on this subject…bear with me, I’ve only been doing it for 30+ years and maybe I’m still a ‘dumb trapper’ by Mr. Groenwold’s opinion. You can rest assured no one will see a $20 average on beaver this year. Even Guy Groenwold himself said $20 top…and I guarantee that’s the carrot to get you to his wagon! If you think that even 1 or 2% get that, you’re wrong. And he will more than average it out on the rest! Nothing more than a gimmick!

He wants to lure you in and buy your shearable beaver at bottom prices. That’s how he operates.

I'm getting $40 bounty per beaver from loggers, $10 last year for green pelts, and about $8 per beaver for castor from Paul. $58 per beaver- I think I'll trap hard again this year

Maybe I should just borrow the money for a sheet of plywood, and finish this fall. Then, sell when the market is more favorable. I've got several green that are frozen, I'd like to unload, but something tells me if he wants them bad now, he'll want them worse later if no one sells right away. I've never been good at making money when "the time is right" so probably won't this time either! Lol

ugh, Am I the only trapper that is glad someone is buying fur still?? Yes I'd like to make money but I very seldom have fun without spending $$.

At this point they aren't buying it , you're donating it to them.

Unfortunately not. It is all about standards.

Mitch L if you dont care about price then dont sell. Trap hard. Catch a bunch. Just dont sell any. Why cut the throat of your fellow trappers?

The problem.is if trappers don't trap the beaver..even in a down market ..the people will get adc or usda trappers to kill the beaver.. and then there will be no beaver to trap for "dumb" or any other kind of trappers.

Jerry said he laugh all the way to the bank with a 20.00 beaver.

Trappers that don't trap are playing right into the hands of the antis. They're winning..because they don't want trappers trapping.

I didn’t see many say they ain’t trapping, just that they ain’t skinning.

I just don't want to waste my freezer space for 10 dollar beaver. Ide have to plug an extra freezer in to store fur this year and electricity isn't cheap.

The powers that be could hit us with new "wanton waste" and "seasonal possession limit" rules and regulations in order to "manipulate" the markets to suit their desires.
Its within their power and can happen.
I wouldn't be surprised.

Calling Jerry dumb would never be a good thing.

It Costs him less to catch and process a beaver than a 6 pack of beer or a pack of cigarettes cost..and hes getting return on the money he spends to cacth the beaver..which is more than I can say for the guys who bought the beer and/or cigs.

The difference between making money trapping and not ...in a depressed market..boils down to how hard you work at it..a guy catching 5 beaver isn't ever gonna make as much as a guy catching 300..even in a depressed market.

And a guy who's only trapping on a high market will eventually sell his traps.

When the markets down by half all you do is trap twice as many..that's the mentality that will make you money..that and your own will and willingness and want ro truly trap.

Longbeard12..I'm not very good at biting my tongue.

Cathryn
I am not either, had a big page wrote up then decided to delete it. Was not worth getting any madder than I was.
Tell Jerry to keep up the good work!! Really enjoying the pictures and write up!

For me Beaver is always a moneymaker.
It seems a lot of people who trap find beaver trapping difficult,and have a hard time skinning and putting them up-takes them too long and they dont do a very good job of it.There are many ways to trap and put up beaver.I think a lot of trappers work far too hard at it to enjoy it.
Myself,I can trap as many beaver as I desire whithout much effort or expense,And I really enjoy clean skinning beaver-its very relaxing physically and mentally.If you know how to sharpen and maintain a good edge on a good big skinning knife,skinning is effortless and fast.I think when it comes to processing beaver,many trappers have never really learned the proper techniques that make the job fast and easy,regardless of what method they use.
I skin and hold the skins.I put most of them up in the winter.Putting up beaver are about the easiest pelts to put up when you have a system in place for doing a lot efficiently in a short time.
I do a lot of fur handling while watching hockey etc on TV,or listening to the news etc.

Plus-what looks and feels better than a nice floor to ceiling stack of nice prime grease free fluffy beaver pelts?

Although I won't dispute the "dumb" moniker much, I almost always make money trapping beaver. Last year was an exception because I had some large unfortunate capital expenses related to my trapping. But if I amortize those expenses out over time I show a profit.

This season may be a tough one because gas prices are still sky high here. At the moment $5.60 a gallon regular.

Geez.....You're more like Jerry than I thought.

He has said the same thing about his stacks of beaver.lol

He actually takes the shop vac to every beaver before he sells them.

It might hurt him by the pound but it makes them look better and that's important to him.

I almost trust that you actually figure in all your costs. Not a normal trapper. However $1 is a profit.

I probably pay more for gas than most people on here and that is not even the big cost. What is the value of my time?

You would be correct Dirt. I do a schedule C for my trapping. Usually the main expense every year is fuel, but there is licenses, repairs, supplies, etc as well. I generally show a profit of around 3-5 thousand for my 2 month season. Not great but something.

Right now It costs jerry right at 10.00 a beaver to trap them( he drives 360 miles round trip a day on his wv beaver line) but all the other fur he sets for and catches while trapping them... Coons yotes..rats ect..pays for all the expenses and then some.

So All jerrys beaver money is profit. OK... plus beaver is a nice chunk of change and at 85 a pound straight for castor...he's doing ok.

We or he..depending if I get to to that day... leave the house by 5Am. And back about 7 pm..then he skins while I cook supper.

I get up at 4 to pack his lunch and make his tea..even if I don't go.

He averaged 25 straight on 300 beaver last year and he didn't sell any of them to groeny.

Wow $10 per beaver cost. Goes to show things are different in other regions, and although I consider myself a proficient beaver trapper, I am still at under 2000 beaver caught since I started tracking all expenses and time about 5 years ago. My cost is much higher, but it is not apples to apples because I am not fur trapping. It is whole different world when you are bound by contract to solve a problem, meaning get them ALL in most cases. If it takes me another 5 visits, 75 miles each time, to get the last one, I have to do it. So my costs dont count for this discussion.
Now I am curious what fur trappers (other than Jerry) who are running and gunning AND actually tracking expenses have for production costs. Maybe I am wrong, and $20 beaver is “laughing all the way to the bank” for others who are under different conditions and population levels, (and maybe much better beaver trappers than myself). Apparently that is the case for Jerry! Sometimes I am wrong.

Jerrys best year he caught right at 1000 beaver..565 in Mississippi and 330(I think) in wyoming..that was before hw trapped beaver hard in wv.

He's caught right at 12500 beaver in 33 years

Profit to one guy is a loss to another simply because they could make more working a job.

BINGO!

Dang..we agree..if you look at it that way.

How much do you charge yourself an hour to watch a ball game or a race or whatever on tv?

I can show you countless side by side seting in the driveways of house trailers and run down houses setting next to junk cars . I wouldnt consider the ownership of a fancy side by side a sign of wealth . It astounds me the folks that own them . I'm logging a place right now that the reason they are getting it logged is they want a five seater aside by side

Among Arizona snow bird farmers ( don't work in the winter from up north) it is. I really didn't mention the lack of run down cars or trailers. There is usually a nice double wide trailer or 5th wheeler and I rather nice truck involved too.

Ha, nothing of course! If you are saying the he just loves it and does not care about profit, fair enough. But it also sounds like he is “laughing all the way to the bank” on his beaver, so kudos on that as well! I would NOT be laughing all the way to the bank on $20 beavers in my region and situation. If Jerry can, I am impressed for sure, and I am not saying I doubt it, although from my perspective it is an amazing feat.

One thing I am looking for, at the core of this discussion, is a comparison between the return on our efforts as trappers compared to the return on efforts of the industries that rely on fur we produce. There will be different points of view by people in different situations and with different levels of skill, proficiency, drive to work hard, beaver population, local laws, money needed to survive… lots of variables.

In the end maybe it just doesn’t matter. Some people will be comfortable with no profit even if the furbuyer and the hat makers are laughing all the way to the bank just because they can still do what they love to do - however I will say that in this case, for most people, they will just have a little fun because they still have to make a living. Some people may find that $20 beaver has them laughing all the way to the bank. If there are enough people in that situation, they can supply the hatter market and the price is currently right on beaver and everyone is making money and my concerns are my own and out in left field. Clearly Jerry is pro, and has his system to the point that his cost is MUCH less than mine. Even though I can not compare my business costs with his costs, I am fairly certain I could not bring in beavers for anything close to $10 each around here no matter what I did. Which makes me wonder, what are other trappers costs?

I do insist on a fair wage when I am supplying an industry where others are making a fair wage. Even if I love what I do. I can not wear a smile and do that.

Part of the story is like this: It costs me the same amount of fuel if I have a three beaver day or a thirteen beaver day. Therefore trappers that have put in their dues and know how to produce good numbers will tend to be much more profitable on their lines. Also, if it takes you an hour to skin and put up a beaver rather than half that it makes a big difference too.

I'll put it this way I figure I have about an 1 hour minimum handling time per beaver. That is scouting, gear prep work , setting traps, checking traps, hauling beaver around again and again, recovering traps, skinning, sharpening knives, boarding beaver, sometimes freezing hides, then thawing hides, keeping fire going, removing from boards, storing hides, putting boards away, clean up, removing castors, drying castors, storing the castors, boxing, shipping the castors, boxing and shipping hides, putting gear away, gutting the carcasses, storing the carcasses, hauling the guts away, loading those carcasses on a sled and sending them to town, cleaning that mess up, putting gear away. It is all time

There is a lot of work involved.

I usually dry my beaver in front of a fan before skinning. Did you include that ...lol

My traps keep working for me when I'm sleeping in bed,and even when I am doing other work.They are constantly making money when they are set.
Dont forget that.

100% right.

And loosanarrow you said by the time you figured "your time" it cost you 20 a beaver.

I just wondered what you charge yourself an hour while your trapping and basically if you charge yourself the same amount per hour while you're at the ballgame.. or the track or setting in front of the tv...or hunting a deer?

If you did apply the same charge per hour when hunting a deer what would you have in that deer by the time you killed it.

Figuring all th expenses at the same rate..fuel..mileage?

All the scouting fuel..food plot seed( if you use a food.plot)(that'd be the same as bait and lure for trapping) and all the minerals or supplements you or corn you buy to bait the deer..if.you do...and the special clothes and don't forget your gun or bow and your ammo or arrows.


I guarantee you that you're gonna make more money trapping beaver..or lose less money trapping beaver..however you wanna look at it..than you're going to on that deer.


It'd probably be cheaper to buy a quarter of beef at 3.00 a pound hanging weight..wouldn't it.?

Yes. But no other industries are relying on the product of my deer hunting to make money. I just eat the meat and enjoy taking my food from local forest.

And if the beaver have absolutely no value at all, and there is absolutely no cash market value at all, I would still spend some of my money to afford me the pleasure of trapping a few; however, until I am making a wage I will not go beyond that, I will catch enough for my own uses.

Not that my thoughts matter much in the face of the fact that Jerry, and therefore assumedly some other trappers, are happy and laughing all the way to the bank at $20 beaver skins. Perhaps my entire premise was mistaken, and $20 beaver is enough over cost to make a wage. And if not that, then perhaps there are those who can afford to not make money chasing beavers all day. I can not make any money selling the pelts at $20 each, so I won’t be selling any. Those who can, again, kudos! Maybe it’s just that I can’t match folks like Jerry and produce them that cheap, and if I were better at it I could make money like the furbuyer and hatter. And I am not being sarcastic, I mean that. Just because I cant do it does not mean no one can do it. Maybe I was out of line suggesting that the downstream folks are making money while trappers are not.

That is why I would like to hear from real numbers beaver fur trappers what expenses they incur to bring in a beav

Castors are 10 dollar avg per beaver lately,why not trap them for the castors-no work involved if your too lazy to process the hides for 20,just take the trap off the beaver,cut out the castors-voila-10 bucks no work.And the carcass left in the bush will increase the carrying capacity of the land for coyotes and other predators worth cash money when skint.

Huh? You still only get $10 for the beaver. What is missing in your analysis is cost to get to the point where you are removing the castors. Add $20 for the skin, now you have $30. Great, what was the cost and how much time was involved. Those figures give you a wage estimate.

Have you ever tracked expenses and time boco? Curious if you know your cost to produce a beaver?

Just call your castor buyer and tell him where the beavers are, then he can deposit your money into your account and the only work will be the call.

There are no recreational beaver in the few I catch....they are all commercial beaver.

Deer hunting is recreational....beaver trapping is WORK!

I can catch more beaver in a day than i would care to process-the cost to get them is next to nothing.We are polluted with water here and water has beaver.I could go to the cabin for a week and live cheaper than I do at home since I live on bush meat at camp.When I trap I trap,I dont spend all day driving around for 150 miles with a 5 ton truck.In that week at camp,in the fall,I could trap and put up 8 beaver a day (and other fur)within a 10 mile radius of the cabin by canoe and 4 wheeler.My 4 wheeler runs all day on around 2 cups of gas.My canoe runs on beaver meat and partridge.
Like Beaverpeeler,all my trapping income and expenses is filed for tax purposes.All expenses I am entitled to I claim,including all equipment,operating expenses capital cost allowances vehices/ building depreciation,heating costs use of home expenses when putting up fur at home etc.
I know exactly how much profit I earn trapping.
I dont only trap beaver when trapping-I trap beaver when I am trapping all other furbearers at the same time,which is the most cost efficient way to trap.
Who would go over the same ground repeatedly trapping only one species at a time-doesnt make sense,and a poor way to manage a trapline.

If everyone would listen to this, beaver would be worth more!

I have a beaver trapping friend who can make $40 or more per hour at his other job as an ivory and soapstone carver. He would love to trap a ton of beaver but the opportunity loss for catching $20 dollar beaver is too great so he keeps his efforts to a minimum.

I, on the other hand would spend the winter scratching my rear end if I wasn't out trapping. So I don't figure my time spent trapping as an expense.

Part of the problem…

Goes to show, it is all relative. Just because I can’t do it doesn’t mean no one can…

Why is he so attached to a bit of extra money breathing unhealthy rock dust over taking a couple weeks a year to participate in the web of life and enjoying the creators wonders?Some people have their priorities mixed up.
I trapped way more when I was younger and working a full time job than I do now in retirement.
Its all about time management-like I said your traps will keep working for you when you are doing other stuff(like working somewhere else)

I used to take a couple weeks vacation from work-every wednesday off for two months,plus weekends-ran 5 full lines from November to Feb.

I have not trapped beaver commercially since the price crashed. I do snare a few beaver under ice every year to eat and dog feed. Rather than process the hides at a loss, I get more value by feeding it to the dogs.

Well said Boco!! I will be starting a line next week for 3 weeks! Cant wait!! Just enjoying what the good lord provides!

I doubt the hatter market has provided a decent wage since the early fur boom, but has been providing a continued market for section 3 goods. Unfortunately with limited demand for heavy good it is what we are left with. Given the inflation and value of todays dollar what would an average beaver price need to be to make trapping beaver "worth it".

"Beavers are overpopulated in parts of Saskatchewan, to the point where more than 200 rural municipalities offer bounties. Last year alone, some 38,000 beaver tails were turned in. With fur prices extremely low, few trappers are targeting beavers, so the ones that are killed for the bounty are typically left to rot. "

"Countywide beaver bounties are not an uncommon practice. When research what type of bounty to put in place, the auditor’s office compared rates and requirements from 25 different counties, including Freeborn, Mower and Blue Earth. Rates for the bounties ranged from $20 to $100, and proof of trapping a beaver also fell all over the map."



I think this is where we are headed. Except for here.

The way he does it is he catches the easy ones and moves on..if a landowner wants all the beaver gone he charges 50 a beaver to catch them because there's more cost.

The beaver you're trapping will have more expenses in them because while you're fighting the last butthole Jerry is down the road catching 10 easy ones.

And the way he does it.. catching the easy ones and.moving on allows him to catch more beaver in a day which keeps the cost down..

Jerry needs to average 10 beaver a day to keep the cost at 10.00 a beaver.

When his average drops below 10 a day for a few days he moves on to a new area.

To make it work you have to have a healthy beaver population.

He's done what you doing and he doesn't usually anymore because it wasn't fun for him anymore.

He's fought and caught some.of the toughest beaver out there and he never made any money on them by the time
he was done..and it wasn't worth he aggravation.to him.

He spent a month after one beaver in a pond then the guy didn't even pay him. He said it was the hardest beaver he'd ever caught in his life.

And some of yall will say he needs to charge more but where we are 50 is about maxed out. And even at 500 a beaver it's no fun for him and he won't do it anymore.

If there ends up being absolutely no fur.market he'll go back to that but he doesn't want o.

And I know you're not selling your deer but you do have unrecoverable expense involved in producing tha deer and we can eat the beaver meat


You enjoy the hunting so you don't look at the expense involved in getting tha deer to.your table the same way as you're looking at the expenses involved in trapping beaver.

I'm going to try to piece some of these stories together. I'm not going mention names. Somebody leaves the house at 5 am and returns at 7pm. Then they skin. The non-beaver catch covers the expenses, the beaver is all profit. I'm confused about the price, but we will call it $30 total beaver. I'm catching 10 a day. $30 multiplied by 10 beaver is $300

If I ignore the processing time we got $300 divide by 14 hours $21 an hour.

I think I got this?

Gotcha. I do actually enjoy doing eradication work on beaver.

Around here, when they block a stream or drainage ditch, they can easily flood 50 homes or 50 acres of farm ground, so while I am not comfortable giving my rates and billing structure on a public forum, I will say that in the end I am able to make a wage that is comparable to or better than what I could expect if I were to work at one of the higher paying local jobs. So when it comes to skinning them for an extra $13 dollar average (if it were legal, which it is not if I am being paid to remove the animal), boco is right, I am too lazy, aka too tired at the end of the day to spend the time and effort to skin and board them, or time to skin and money to run a freezer as the case may be.

I have learned something from all of this - some folks CAN make money at these prices and are happy with it. If those who can make money can catch enough to supply what the hatters need, then my basic premise of everyone else making $ while the producers of fur do not make money was an incorrect assumption. But I do get the sense that not very many trappers can manage to make a wage at these prices. Only the best of the best, and those with ideal situations of high population and low overhead. Which is of course fine. In my situation though theres just no way to make a decent wage, so I would be pushed out of the fur market. Like many though, I love it and would still get out and catch a few….

In our area a "regular" job Is 10.00 to 14.00 an area..the aluminum plant..which is our highest paying job in the area starts at 20 to 23 an hour.

Jerry makes 20.00 an hour at his farm job so he can make just as much trapping beaver.

You forgot one important part-the $2000 dollars a week to stay at a remote cabin for a week you would have to pay if you were not a trapper.Just by having a remote cabin on a trapline you are putting $2000 dollars in your pocket for every week you stay out there,hunting fishing and trapping.Money you would have to pay someone else(an outfitter) for that privilege.

I might know who he is talking about. I trap four four months every winter. The number of traps I have out varies, from about six to 200! Haven’t gotten close to the 200 in several years!

Glad to hear your at least keeping your toes wet.
I could never run 200 beaver traps unless I farmed out the skinning.
!50 beaver a day would be too much for me,lol.

Boco, that 200 trap claim must include mouse traps in his fur shed!

Never said 200 traps for beaver!! 20-30 for beaver and otter, the rest for rats, cat, coyote, etc..

Newhouse they keep ya hoppin im sure.

..Jerry runs between 150 and 200 when he's at peak but like you..it's for various species.

Right now he has about 170 out..110 for marten and the rest are for beaver and rats.ect.