So apparently the thread got axes while I was typing this up but I wanna respond. Would also like to say I did not delete that last post.

Also would like to ask Paul and the other mods to not delete or ban anyone calling me out or similar. I'm 100% for free speech and I'll take what anyone has to say to or about to the chest. If you have something to get off your chest about me to where you feel you need to make a public post about me then fine I will NOT hide from criticism. And I ask no one "coddle me " by getting rid of people with grievances towards me .

And if it's deemed I'm unfit to be on this site due to my views and though I will take a ban without complaints and full understanding.
Could have just called me out from the git go you know.

And where did a say anything bad about that flag. Please copy and paste. Exactly what I said. Because I've shown my post to a bunch of people so far most of whom fly a rebel flag and everyone's been pretty confused when I tell them folks are saying I'm against it.
Now I'll say this but , from what I've been seeing how folks respond it won't do much good. People have made up their ideas about me and will simply say I'm back peddling. And honestly I hate to say it but y'all have been prime examples of what my post was actually talking about.

1. I'm not against that flag or GOOD people who fly it.
2. I have and still do defend it and try and explain to people it's not racist simply because there are SOME people who are racist who use it .
3. I don't think the civil war was simply over slavery and I've also defend this to people who think it was.
4. I was very very against the removal of civil war monuments

The whole purpose of my post was talking about how people don't want to think past extremely simplistic ideas and yes and no answers. And I used that flag and an example.

Why ?

Because people want it to be either YES ITS RACIST or NO ITS NOT RACIST. And then they want a very simplistic basic reason. BUT ITS NOT THAT SIMPLE.
I SAID IT RIGHT HERE




Then Yes I did say if you have a bunch of flag in your yard when I pull up AND I DONT KNOW YOU. Key words I DONT KNOW YOU. I'll be in edge.

Here's the deal though I DID NOT JUST SAY CONFEDERATE/ REBEL FLAGS. I also said BIDEN TRUMP GAY FLAG ECT.

HOWEVER people just latched on to the rebel part of it and ran . Which I have to say is some kinda bad case of victim mentality.

I mean less then two months ago I was talking about in here how I was trying to explain to one of my coworkers that the rebel flag WASN'T RACIST just because it was being used as the barrel flag of the side who owned slaves.


NEVER ONCE ,did I say anything actually negative about that flag it's self or the GOOD PEOPLE who fly it. I said NOT EVEYONE who flys it is good, which honestly I hope would be common sense.

Not everyone who flys an AMERICAN flag is good
Not everyone who flys an BIDEN Flag is good
Not everyone who flys a Pride flag is good
so on and so on.

And all this can be reversed as well

Not everyone who flys an American is bad
Not everyone who flys a BIDEN is bad
Not everyone who flay a pride flag is bad

So on and so forth

BUT in today's society where everyone can be a wild card IF I DIDN'T KNOW YOU AT ALLLLL ,I'm always going to hope for the best but prepare for the worst possible scenario. Why ? Because this the most logical and realistic thing to do if you want to have the best chances of being safe.
A big thing your taught in the military is to always be aware of your surroundings and try and collect information from said surrounding. Stay alert stay alive was literally one of my companies mottos

So again copy and paste EXACTLY WHAT I SAID , EXACTLY WHERE I SAID BAD THINGS OR DISRESPECTED THAT FLAG.

O and btw My name is Donovan McDowell so next time anyone wants to call me out please do it from the git go and you can even use my real name bud .

O and by the way my little handle and my YouTube name the Black Trapper , is basically just a joke. Why ? Because when I used to go out and peoel who saw me and recognize would they would stumble around scared to say what they thought till I finally made them spit out " your the black guy who does all the trapping stuff" so I just plain decided to make it "Official" . It's just a bit of and ice breaker or a joke. And yes ! Y'all could call yourselfs the white trapper if you wanted , it's America , who cares.

Stage is open , court is in session , let me be judged by my peers

Wolfie,the way that guy acted ,he would get ousted everytime.His posts violated rules and anyone doing that is going to be gone.
Tom

I don't recall doing anything with this subject. I don't recall even reading it. However, if someone belittles you on here, they're going to see Tman in their rear view mirror. Free speech is good, until it is used in a negative way towards one of our members, and especially a moderator. I won't stand for it.

I just don't want anyone to try and say I was getting special treatment because of whatever, my forum status,my age my race ect

Donovan,

I think your steadfast dedication to always maintain that there is some neutrality among controversial positions is what causes confusion. I made a point about the flag because your own words about it are inaccurate from a historic point of view, not because you said something offensive. There are many times in life where we want to remain in a position of self affirming our own idealogy and principles, but its good to be disputed because it will either highlight weakness or strength in a particular position. Different views are needed for a healthy ecosystem even on this forum, getting those thoughts across in a clear concise manner is the hard part.


With all sincerity, is everything all good? Seems like some months back you got on here and made some posts that were not your normal average kind. These guys/gals are good people on here, sometimes we get too excited to read what they are trying to say. Ask questions before you assume, I know it took me from age 25-29 to really learn that lesson. You would be surprised at what you might find.

Matt

You're okay in my book, Wolfie. You'd be welcome in my house and at my table, anytime.

LIKE Wolfdog.

I have a really simple question .Why? EVERY so often you make a post like this and then someone gets axed and you come on and make a large post about why you stirred everybody up and then stir and repeat. You know the outcome before it's posted because you know the people on here so I ask why? I understand what you are trying but you also know ahead of time the reaction you are going to get. It is like going to a BLM site and saying police are the good guys.

Attention

By his own admission, the guy was drunk. A post got deleted, another got locked, but he just wouldn't quit and started in on another post. I'm sure when he wakes up this morning he'll be kicking himself.

While free speech is a right, with rights comes responsility.

Thank you for allowing us a public square to be free even if some of us are a little irresponsible, lol.

good post wolf dog. i get it


I seriously doubt there are very many Americans or Christians in other countries who believe slavery is justified. I doubt that George Washington ,Thomas Jefferson or even Robert E Lee or Jeff Davis would want to keep slaves today if they were alive.

This is where the idea that it was gods will came from.

Exodus 21:24
Fair Treatment of Slaves

1“These are the regulations you must present to Israel.

2“If you buy a Hebrew slave, he may serve for no more than six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. 3If he was single when he became your slave, he shall leave single. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife must be freed with him.

4“If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave and they had sons or daughters, then only the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. 5But the slave may declare, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children. I don’t want to go free.’ 6If he does this, his master must present him before God.a Then his master must take him to the door or doorpost and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will serve his master for life.

7“When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. 8If she does not satisfy her owner, he must allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. 9But if the slave’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave but as a daughter.

10“If a man who has married a slave wife takes another wife for himself, he must not neglect the rights of the first wife to food, clothing, and sexual intimacy. 11If he fails in any of these three obligations, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment.

Cases of Personal Injury

12“Anyone who assaults and kills another person must be put to death. 13But if it was simply an accident permitted by God, I will appoint a place of refuge where the slayer can run for safety. 14However, if someone deliberately kills another person, then the slayer must be dragged even from my altar and be put to death.

15“Anyone who strikes father or mother must be put to death.

16“Kidnappers must be put to death, whether they are caught in possession of their victims or have already sold them as slaves.

17“Anyone who dishonorsb father or mother must be put to death.

18“Now suppose two men quarrel, and one hits the other with a stone or fist, and the injured person does not die but is confined to bed. 19If he is later able to walk outside again, even with a crutch, the assailant will not be punished but must compensate his victim for lost wages and provide for his full recovery.

20“If a man beats his male or female slave with a club and the slave dies as a result, the owner must be punished. 21But if the slave recovers within a day or two, then the owner shall not be punished, since the slave is his property.
22“Now suppose two men are fighting, and in the process they accidentally strike a pregnant woman so she gives birth prematurely.c If no further injury results, the man who struck the woman must pay the amount of compensation the woman’s husband demands and the judges approve. 23But if there is further injury, the punishment must match the injury: a life for a life, 24an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a hand for a hand, a foot for a foot, 25a burn for a burn, a wound for a wound, a bruise for a bruise.

26“If a man hits his male or female slave in the eye and the eye is blinded, he must let the slave go free to compensate for the eye. 27And if a man knocks out the tooth of his male or female slave, he must let the slave go free to compensate for the tooth.

28“If an oxd gores a man or woman to death, the ox must be stoned, and its flesh may not be eaten. In such a case, however, the owner will not be held liable. 29But suppose the ox had a reputation for goring, and the owner had been informed but failed to keep it under control. If the ox then kills someone, it must be stoned, and the owner must also be put to death. 30However, the dead person’s relatives may accept payment to compensate for the loss of life. The owner of the ox may redeem his life by paying whatever is demanded.

31“The same regulation applies if the ox gores a boy or a girl. 32But if the ox gores a slave, either male or female, the animal’s owner must pay the slave’s owner thirty silver coins,e and the ox must be stoned.

33“Suppose someone digs or uncovers a pit and fails to cover it, and then an ox or a donkey falls into it. 34The owner of the pit must pay full compensation to the owner of the animal, but then he gets to
35“If someone’s ox injures a neighbor’s ox and the injured ox dies, then the two owners must sell the live ox and divide the price equally between them. They must also divide the dead animal. 36But if the ox had a reputation for goring, yet its owner failed to keep it under control, he must pay full compensation—a live ox for the dead one—but he may keep the dead ox.



Genesis 9:20-27
New International Version
20 Noah, a man of the soil, proceeded[a] to plant a vineyard. 21 When he drank some of its wine, he became drunk and lay uncovered inside his tent. 22 Ham, the father of Canaan, saw his father naked and told his two brothers outside. 23 But Shem and Japheth took a garment and laid it across their shoulders; then they walked in backward and covered their father’s naked body. Their faces were turned the other way so that they would not see their father naked.

24 When Noah awoke from his wine and found out what his youngest son had done to him, 25 he said,

“Cursed be Canaan!
The lowest of slaves
will he be to his brothers.”

26 He also said,

“Praise be to the Lord, the God of Shem!
May Canaan be the slave of Shem.
27 May God extend Japheth’s[b] territory;
may Japheth live in the tents of Shem,
and may Canaan be the slave of Japheth.

Now as I understand it Ham means dark or black.

lots of folks fly that flag for lots of different reasons and today that part of the old testament is just another part of the bible people pretend doesn't exist

I gave him the boot. It doesn't matter to whom he was responding. He would be gone regardless

I don't pretend what you quoted Danny is not in the Bible. However, I'm not Jewish. As for flags, if someone was flying an Ebenezer Baptist Church flag I would be nervous.

J Staton these folks are pushing the boundary of religious freedom in my book

https://www.godhatesfags.com/

sorry i posted the wrong link

[quote=Wolfdog91]

Why ?

Because people want it to be either YES ITS RACIST or NO ITS NOT RACIST. And then they want a very simplistic basic reason. BUT ITS NOT THAT SIMPLE.
I SAID IT RIGHT HERE
[qoute]



LOL, This ought to simplify things!








[img]https://trapperman.com/forum/attachments/usergals/2022/10/full-2625-154687-img_3283.jpg[/img

I see were you are coming from , and agree. How can a flag be racist? It's just a piece of cloth. It doesn't have the capability of feelings like hate. It can't reason or make judgement. Only a human can do those things. As MLK had said a person should "not be judge by the color of their skin but by the content of their character" Nether can a piece of cloth be judged by the colors on it, only by the character of the person waving it.

Who got the boot? I missed the thread I guess.

These are complex issues and everyone seems to want things simple. Black and white, cut and dried.

I'd be happy to share a campfire with you someday and just talk about this stuff in a reasonable way, which seems hard for a lot of people to do.

I guess I just don't understand.
That flag was the flag of a group of some that basicly said "we don't want to be part of the United States. A war was fought and it decided that they could not remove themselves from the union.
Seems like today it is used by those who think they want to be a rebel and can't figure a way to show their message other than flying that flag. There are those who fly that flag who believe in the original message flying that flag stood for.
So which is it?
just.