Associations do way more than conventions. Mostly they are education based orgs. Educating trappers and more importantly educating the public. We just came off doing trapper Workshops all across the state last weekend. We go to schools, fairs, outdoors shows, 4-H/FFA shows, etc.

You don't have to pay a lobbyists to get a ballot initiative, you just collect the requisite number of signatures of registered voters and its off to the races. The antis dont fight in the places we can beat them with lobbying. State legislatures are only in session for a short amount of time in most states so laws being passed are generally not problematic, especially since game laws generally arent governed by the legislatures. Its getting the right politicians elected that will appoint the right people over the agencies involved. And cultivating those relationships with said politicians, and you can do that for free. Especially since paid lobbyists are pretty much out of the budget of most associations.

OSTA's radar, that's hillarious!!

@SniperB I appreciate the breakdown and all of that does a great deal, but if trapping gets banned in the state its all a moot point. I am not sure there is a state where the Legislature doesnt have ultimate authority over the natural resources in the states boundaries. The Wildlife Departments promulgate rules based off the laws the Legislatures pass in every state I know of, but it wouldnt surprise me if a few did it differently.

I understand that things can be done for free, but its beneficial for things to be added to the record for a myriad of reasons. This is where lobbying plays a huge factor and is further evidenced by the state associations who have lobbyists consistently arent in grave danger of losing trapping rights. Thats really the entire point is that a person lobbies the politicians on your orgs behalf when they are in session and other times.

I understand but I believe there is a viable path towards ownership of trapping even with people who dont agree who are in these positions at the differing Departments. Its all about adequate self representation of trapping and doing it consistently enough so that there is not room for it to go away.

Legislatures do have ultimate authority but for the most part, the only thing we have to really deal with them about is license fees. But rule making is up to the division and the Wildlife Council where we have a good bit of influence.

You have to spend money where it makes sense. Just to do it all the time is a waste of our resources. Lobbyists arent cheap and for some orgs would eat all the money the take in a year. Maybe if our state starts going purple again then maybe its something we will have to look at. And lobbying is nothing if you dont have an active membership to make phone calls or showing up to meetings, events, etc. At least not on a the monetary levels we're dealing with.

The NTA is a 501c6 organization. It is exempt from federal taxes but a donation to it can not be written off as a charitable donation. It is possible it could be written off as a business expense.

Donations to a 501 c3 can be written off as a charitable donation. There are limits placed on the amount of political lobbying a c3 can do.

A few states I know off the top of my head that hire a lobbyist is MN, IA and NV off of the top of my head I'm sure XO does too.

Nevada has probably the most successful and effective trapper lobbyist the country

Diper, how do you get that game laws aren't set by a legislature? They most certainly are. Some game laws are rules some are statute. If they are rules those can be changed by an agency but at the end of the day those agencies are given their power and guidelines by statute.

You make me sad because you have so much faith in the current OSTA. It's admirable but I've been in meetings, with no support from OSTA , which they promised support, where Pete Novotny said to my eye, the trappers have no voice any more, times have changed. Times have changed and as A Ohioan I only see where OSTA says well, ok. Often times I am the odd man out because I'm one of the few left that calls the ball.

They set some laws by statute but most of them are under the Admin Code. Pretty much anything that changes these days is via Admin Code rather than the Revised(law) Code.

What kind of meetings? The kasich years were a bit of a blurr because all the crap we had to deal with with him so I've probably forgot more than I ever wanted to know dealing with it.

I have to be honest from the standpoint of whats a better spend of money, I am going to go with lobbying 10/10. The reason is that there are other avenues that the other stuff can be accomplished, but again just look at NM for example. Where are new trappers supposed to trap now? What good does it do to know how to trap, but not have a place to trap?

To me the entire secrecy stuff has got to end, trapping and fur played a pivotal role in building America what it is today. We should all be proud to speak about it and not hide in closets whispering to eachother when the antis get near. There are definitely some things we all can do collectively, but having an actual balls to the wall strategy that is proactive is and whats been missing. How many trapper associations have a program for low income folks to get pipelined in for trapping? I know Louisiana would qualify based on how they do trapper education, but who else? How many folks are knocking on doors in low income neighborhoods to talk about trapping and the benefits? The list goes on and on.


@Catch22, you are ignoring me, but I tried to send you a PM to say that your opinions are always wanted here at tman even if me or somebody else disagrees. I also know your pain about not being supported in an endeavor, nothing worse. If you PM me, Ill send a supporting letter to whoever you need me to, and I will give you some other options to help propel what you want forward.

I think knocking on doors to talk to the po' folk is getting off in the weeds a little, ain't it?

Well trapping can make a really big impact for low income families in terms of providing food, tools, clothing and potentially even some money during the winter time. If all somebody did was raccoons, they could use all the fat to cook/bake with instead of using butter, and they could eat the delicious raccoon meat, and use the fur for lots of things. When you spread this out over the states, you start to realize that there are a lot of people who would benefit from trapping, but have no idea about it except that there used to be steel traps with teeth for bears.

Is Joel a registered lobbyist? I agree he is one of the best in the country if that's who you are referring to.

Yes, and the Nevada Trappers Association pays him

Lets step up the pain for everybody's benefit. When you search on the IRS website, you can see which trapping associations have auto revocation letters, I have sent emails to a few trapper associations informing them of this, but maybe we should keep a running list here on TMAN for the benefit of all members. At the end of the day it's not meant to paint anybody in a bad light, it's just beneficial for people to have maximum accountability and transparency on the matters. This list below means that whoever is in charge of submitting the tax forms to the IRS needs to be told, reminded, informed, to file the tax filings to maintain their non-profit status. This was just all the easy ones to find, but everybody who belongs to an org that is on this list, needs to ensure whoever is in charge stays on this.

Out Of Compliance:

Broome county trappers assoc inc EIN: 22-2308140 | Binghamton, NY, United States
Florida Trappers Association EIN: 46-5527146 | Groveland, FL, United States
Gila Trappers Incorporated EIN: 85-0425439 | Silver City, NM, United States
Feral Feline Trappers Saint Louis & Metro East EIN: 45-5415583 | --, --, United States
Illinois Free Trappers Inc EIN: 36-2963837 | Tinley Pk, IL, United States
Illinois Trappers Association EIN: 37-1179099 | Springfield, IL, United States
Indiana State Trappers Assn EIN: 31-1009312 | Bloomington, IN, United States
Massachusetts Trappers Assn Inc EIN: 90-0077783 | Bellingham, MA, United States
Missouri Free Trappers EIN: 43-1336423 | Sibley, MO, United States
Missouri Trappers Education Foundation EIN: 45-0531515 | Gravois Mills, MO, United States
New orleans bear and bear trapper social club EIN: 72-1449153 | New orleans, LA, United States
New York State Trappers Association EIN: 22-2602849 | --, --, United States
Oneida trappers EIN: 46-5356064 | Rhinelander, WI, United States
Sand creek free trappers EIN: 34-1525796 | Canton, OH, United States
Spring Mountain Free Trappers EIN: 88-0153403 | Las Vegas, NV, United States
Tennessee Free Trappers & Adco EIN: 52-2281865 | White House, TN, United States
Trappers Lodge Cat Haven Inc EIN: 84-3901815 | Morganton, GA, United States
Utah Trappers Association EIN: 87-0488022 | Richfield, UT, United States
West Virginia Trappers Association EIN: 55-0519989 | Glenville, WV, United States
Kentucky Fur Takers Association Inc EIN: 61-1048109 | Taylorsville, KY, United States
Tri-state Fur Takers EIN: 93-0968774 | Paisley, OR, United States

If those associations don't take action within a specific period of time they will most likely lose their tax exempt status and then the cost to reapply could be a few hundred dollars. Some organizations have found it easier to dissolve rename and start over and then get serious about maintaining their status. Another even potentially larger issue is that if and when an organization loses their tax exempt status and individuals or firms that donate monies can not claim the tax deduction as the organization is legally not tax exempt. Several of the smaller veterans associations and fish and game associations have found this out the hard way.

Bryce

Well those are all great points, I just think generally if filing a tax form every year isnt done, what else is wrong? The NYSTA one is especially surprising, they were the golden standard for a good while, but they arent alone in the boat. I didnt even search the individual state business filings. Those are also likely out of compliance, but the time to fix this is now and not later.

The other trapper associations that dont have federal tax exemption status is also a mistake in my opinion. I believe if every trapper association had federal tax exemption, membership would go through the roof across the board. In a world where our politicians hide from accountability the last thing people want is a trapper org that isnt completely transparent with how it conducts business. Volunteering the information is not the same, nor is it enough.

You have to be very specific and careful regarding how your organization wants to be organized. Most tax exempt organizations most times are prohibited from hiring lobbiests as part of the tax exempt status. For many organizations it is much wiser to funnel monies that are need to groups or firms that have longer histories and experiences with lobbying and other legal proceedings. The small amount of funds trapping associations have available to do lobbying and other legal work when compared to the ARs means we should put that money in the hands of those witha lot of experience.
We also need to maintain strong working relationships with our conservation departments in all states if we can. Trapping is a recommended activity and harvest management system by most departments and their testemonies onr our behalf are very critial in maintaining trapping as an appropriate harvest method. Good spokesperson on our behalf in our agencies probably are worth a lot more then any amount of dollars we have in our kittys.

Bryce

Thank you for making this thread. This is one of the subjects in trapping that needs the most addressing. Our associations need to start heavily with investing in whatever ways are possible. I've brought it up a few times in the past few years and it's fallen on deaf ears.

A tutorial on how to vet an association and its doings is as archive worthy as any.

That's hilarious.