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Traditional muzzleloader questions #7714174
11/10/22 05:17 PM
11/10/22 05:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 3,700
MN
D
Donnersurvivor Offline OP
trapper
Donnersurvivor  Offline OP
trapper
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 3,700
MN
I'm looking into getting a traditional style muzzle loader, prefer a hawken but at this point availability is limited on everything. It would mainly be used on whitetails but with some luck hopefully elk occasionally. I got a few questions and appreciate input.

1. .50 or .54 cal? I originally wanted .54 but having trouble finding one.
2. Brand, investarms, lyman pederolsi, other? Was hoping to stay under $1,000 but would rather buy once cry once.
3. Where to find one? Track of the wolf is sold out of almost all complete guns, everyone seems out of pederolsi but I think I can find lyman and investarms on Dixie gun works

Thanks for replies.

Re: Traditional muzzleloader questions [Re: Donnersurvivor] #7714188
11/10/22 05:29 PM
11/10/22 05:29 PM
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 5,050
W NY
Turtledale Offline
trapper
Turtledale  Offline
trapper

Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 5,050
W NY
I have a Thompson center Renegade in .54 cal and just love it. I shoot patch and roundball. I've never shot over 80 yards but it is deadly accurate at that range and under.

Don't forget when you buy one to find out what the barrel twist is. If you like to shoot certain projectiles the twist makes a difference in what shoots better out of it


NYSTA, NTA, FTA, life member Catt.county trappers
Re: Traditional muzzleloader questions [Re: Donnersurvivor] #7714200
11/10/22 05:43 PM
11/10/22 05:43 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 4,539
West Central MN
20scout Offline
trapper
20scout  Offline
trapper

Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 4,539
West Central MN
Flint or percussion cap? .50 or .54 cal will work fine once you work up a load and practice enough to build up your confidence. I would rather have a well placed shot with a smaller caliber than a poor shot with a cannon.


Common sense is a not a vegetable that does well in everyone's garden.
Re: Traditional muzzleloader questions [Re: Donnersurvivor] #7714206
11/10/22 05:47 PM
11/10/22 05:47 PM
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 256
Missouri
O
Osagian Offline
trapper
Osagian  Offline
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O

Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 256
Missouri
.50 or .54 cal?
I say .54 but for deer under 100yrds shooting round ball it won't make much difference. I've got both barrels for my TC Hawken and I'd as soon hunt with either one of them.
For them same setup(the same rifle in either .50 or .54), the .54 will be a 1/2lb or so lighter then the .50 and will hit a little harder.
Thompson Center is down, the best thing out there IMO is the Lyman Hawken in caplock.

Re: Traditional muzzleloader questions [Re: Donnersurvivor] #7714209
11/10/22 05:53 PM
11/10/22 05:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 955
Surry county, NC
G Hose Offline
trapper
G Hose  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 955
Surry county, NC
.54 caliber pedersoli Rocky Mountain hawkin with maple wood
Beautiful good gun.
Their website will show dealers.

Re: Traditional muzzleloader questions [Re: Donnersurvivor] #7714210
11/10/22 05:54 PM
11/10/22 05:54 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,858
east central WI
K
k snow Offline
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k snow  Offline
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K

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,858
east central WI
Welcome to the world of traditional muzzleloaders.

If elk is in the guns future, I would strongly suggest the 54, especially if shooting patched round ball. Example is CO, I believe they have a 54 minimum for patched ball. 50s have to be a conical (REAL, mini, etc).

Older Lymans are great guns, if you can find a used one in good condition. Their Great Plains rifle is a decent replica of a plains rifle, similar to a Hawken. They are now made my Pedersoli, and from the reviews I have read, the quality has suffered. Pedersolis are okay guns, they'll get the job done, but the older Lyman plains rifle was exceptional.

Flint or cap is a great question. Commercial caplocks are decent to excellent. Commercial flintlocks are generally poor to serviceable. Good flintlocks cost good money and are often found only on "custom" guns. Look for Siler, L&R, RE Davis or Chambers names.

Twist is very important in determining projectile. A 1:48 barrel is a decent compromise for patched ball and conical. Slower is better for ball, faster for conical.

Feel free to PM any time, I'll talk traditional muzzleloaders all day.

Re: Traditional muzzleloader questions [Re: Donnersurvivor] #7714215
11/10/22 06:01 PM
11/10/22 06:01 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 20,628
New Hampshire
N
Nessmuck Offline
trapper
Nessmuck  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 20,628
New Hampshire
Get a flintah...you get to aim twice...lol...


It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.
Re: Traditional muzzleloader questions [Re: Nessmuck] #7714216
11/10/22 06:02 PM
11/10/22 06:02 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,858
east central WI
K
k snow Offline
trapper
k snow  Offline
trapper
K

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,858
east central WI
Originally Posted by Nessmuck
Get a flintah...you get to aim twice...lol...


Now Ness, don't mess with the new guy.

Watch my squirrel rifle video to see how a good flintlock works.

Re: Traditional muzzleloader questions [Re: Donnersurvivor] #7714219
11/10/22 06:06 PM
11/10/22 06:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 3,700
MN
D
Donnersurvivor Offline OP
trapper
Donnersurvivor  Offline OP
trapper
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 3,700
MN
Thanks for all the replies. I'm open to flint or cap but if it's flint it needs to be higher end not a cheaper one.

I like the idea of a .54 but they are so difficult to find

Re: Traditional muzzleloader questions [Re: Donnersurvivor] #7714223
11/10/22 06:09 PM
11/10/22 06:09 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,858
east central WI
K
k snow Offline
trapper
k snow  Offline
trapper
K

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,858
east central WI
To be historically accurate, a flintlock Hawken would be full stock, a halfstock would be a caplock rifle.

A good flintlock Hawken replica will be in the 1500 to 1800 range.

Re: Traditional muzzleloader questions [Re: Donnersurvivor] #7714242
11/10/22 06:22 PM
11/10/22 06:22 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,294
Northeast Oklahoma
M
Mike in A-town Offline
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Mike in A-town  Offline
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M

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,294
Northeast Oklahoma
If you're going to buy an entry level traditional muzzleloader... I recommend percussion. A well built and tuned lock is the heart of a flintlock and the lower end stuff usually doesn't cut it... You'll find good examples that work fine. But it's a roll of the dice.

The Investarms Hawken from Dixie is probably as suitable as any... And it's in stock.

https://www.dixiegunworks.com/index/page/product/product_id/8562/category/316/category_chain/312,313,316/product_name/PR0507+DIXIE+HAWKEN+RIFLE%2C+.54+CALIBER+PERCUSSION+BY+INVESTARMS

I personally recommend real black powder. But if you're going to use a sub, I would choose 777 over Pyrodex.

Locating caps may be your biggest challenge.

Mike

Edit: Tried twice to get the link to work. OP may have to copy and paste

Last edited by Mike in A-town; 11/10/22 06:24 PM. Reason: Trying to get the link to work

One man with a gun may control 100 others who have none.

Vladimir Lenin
Re: Traditional muzzleloader questions [Re: Donnersurvivor] #7714246
11/10/22 06:24 PM
11/10/22 06:24 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 2,671
Ohio
W
Willy Firewood Offline
trapper
Willy Firewood  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 2,671
Ohio
I may have available an unfired Thompson Center .50 caliber percussion rifle. It was my Dadís rifle and brother has it. PM if interested and I will ask brother.


FRAC LIVES MATTER
Re: Traditional muzzleloader questions [Re: Willy Firewood] #7714262
11/10/22 06:30 PM
11/10/22 06:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 3,700
MN
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Donnersurvivor Offline OP
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Donnersurvivor  Offline OP
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 3,700
MN
Originally Posted by Willy Firewood
I may have available an unfired Thompson Center .50 caliber percussion rifle. It was my Dadís rifle and brother has it. PM if interested and I will ask brother.


Thanks, I really would prefer the .54 I think but I'll keep it in mind and appreciate it.

https://www.dixiegunworks.com/index/page/product/product_id/8562/category/316/category_chain/312,313,316/product_name/PR0507+DIXIE+HAWKEN+RIFLE%2C+.54+CALIBER+PERCUSSION+BY+INVESTARMS

That's the gun Mike recommended and actually one I was considering, would love to keep gathering info though.

Re: Traditional muzzleloader questions [Re: Donnersurvivor] #7714267
11/10/22 06:32 PM
11/10/22 06:32 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,858
east central WI
K
k snow Offline
trapper
k snow  Offline
trapper
K

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,858
east central WI
Sent you a PM

Re: Traditional muzzleloader questions [Re: Donnersurvivor] #7714281
11/10/22 06:50 PM
11/10/22 06:50 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,595
ohio
Ohio Wolverine Offline
trapper
Ohio Wolverine  Offline
trapper

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,595
ohio
Originally Posted by Donnersurvivor
Originally Posted by Willy Firewood
I may have available an unfired Thompson Center .50 caliber percussion rifle. It was my Dadís rifle and brother has it. PM if interested and I will ask brother.


Thanks, I really would prefer the .54 I think but I'll keep it in mind and appreciate it.

https://www.dixiegunworks.com/index/page/product/product_id/8562/category/316/category_chain/312,313,316/product_name/PR0507+DIXIE+HAWKEN+RIFLE%2C+.54+CALIBER+PERCUSSION+BY+INVESTARMS

That's the gun Mike recommended and actually one I was considering, would love to keep gathering info though.


I had both , 54 and 50. Hawkens Thompsons , and at a 100 yards , both are acurate , but the 50 is the most acurate .
Get yourself molds for the round ball and the mini .
Make sure you get pure lead , as tin/lead mix makes for a harder bullet.
It is hard to load after even just one shot.


We have met the enemy and the enemy is us!
Re: Traditional muzzleloader questions [Re: k snow] #7714409
11/10/22 09:56 PM
11/10/22 09:56 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 20,628
New Hampshire
N
Nessmuck Offline
trapper
Nessmuck  Offline
trapper
N

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 20,628
New Hampshire
Originally Posted by k snow
Originally Posted by Nessmuck
Get a flintah...you get to aim twice...lol...


Now Ness, don't mess with the new guy.

Watch my squirrel rifle video to see how a good flintlock works.


Oh yeah..! ...I can hold my flintahs upsidedown...pull the trigger and they go off just like a percussion gun


It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.
Re: Traditional muzzleloader questions [Re: Donnersurvivor] #7714445
11/10/22 11:23 PM
11/10/22 11:23 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,077
NE
M
Marty B Offline
"arbitrary noob"
Marty B  Offline
"arbitrary noob"
M

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,077
NE

Re: Traditional muzzleloader questions [Re: Donnersurvivor] #7714490
11/11/22 04:37 AM
11/11/22 04:37 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,555
Pa
W
Wright Brothers Offline
trapper
Wright Brothers  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,555
Pa
If 15-18,
I shoulda bought more of these.

Will trade for contender.





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