Jan 6 is an example of what happens if it appears that someone is willing to fight back.

Thanks fellas! I really appreciate all of your thoughtful posts. Like I mentioned earlier, I really do struggle with this.

It just doesn't seem right to sit back and watch the construction of the brazen bull take place without trying to stall or stop the ones building it.

You’re right Chancey. It doesn’t feel right. The flesh wants what is worldly. This battle is spiritual in nature and it takes the indwelling spirit to lead us.

Put together a “support group” that you can kick around ideas via old fashion communication. Don’t have any? Go to your local library and read. Be mindful of technology use it advantageously.

There are some really good answers here already. Great work everyone! I'll throw in my two cents as well. I can't resist a good theological discussion, especially one so practical. Please forgive my loquacity. Important topics of discussion deserve enough words to actually discuss them. Let's start with Ephesians 6:

"Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of His might. Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm. Stand firm therefore, HAVING GIRDED YOUR LOINS WITH TRUTH, and HAVING PUT ON THE BREASTPLATE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, and having shod YOUR FEET WITH THE PREPARATION OF THE GOSPEL OF PEACE; in addition to all, taking up the shield of faith with which you will be able to extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. And take THE HELMET OF SALVATION, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God."

Based on this small passage alone, I'd say that we are expected to fight. The fight is already here and we are meant to participate in it. Enough is already enough. We are under siege. The bad guys need to be taken out. No doubt about it. The time is now. However, we must also realize who the bad guy actually is and think about the ways in which we are to fight out battles. Who does Paul say are the bad guys? The devil and the spiritual forces of darkness in the heavenly realm. NOT other human beings. What does Paul say we should use to combat the schemes of the devil? Truth, righteousness, the Gospel of peace, faith, salvation, and the word of God.

If Paul says that the devil is the enemy, let's see what Jesus has to say about the devil. John 8 contains one of His most in-depth discussions on the devil. I won't quote the whole passage, but you can read it for yourself. I'll pull out some highlights. Starting with verse 31:

So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.” ... Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me. “Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word. “You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. “But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me...

According to Jesus's words here, what is the devil's primary method of combat? Lies! Note that in our first encounter with the devil in Genesis 3, the serpent doesn't approach Eve with a sword but rather with an idea! Same with Jesus's temptation in Matthew 4. Same with just about any sin or screw-up in the Book (or out of it). Does the devil walk around killing people with his pitchfork? No! People go around killing each other because they live with the wrong ideas in their minds. How does Jesus say we'll be freed from this problem? By knowing the Truth! This is why Jesus came as a Teacher, not a military leader. Even in the Revelation, when Jesus shows up to the battle in chapter 19, He carries a sword in His mouth, not in His hand. Or how does Jesus combat the devil in Matthew 4? By speaking the truth. How does Jesus call out the religious and political leaders of His day? By speaking the truth. How about Zechariah 8, ‘These are the things which you should do: speak the truth to one another; judge with truth and judgment for peace in your gates. ‘Also let none of you devise evil in your heart against another, and do not love perjury; for all these are what I hate,’ declares the LORD.” Or Ephesians 4, "As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of people, by craftiness in deceitful scheming; but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, that is, Christ...'

The long and the short of it is that it is absolutely necessary to fight back, but the war is being fought over the soul of humanity by spiritual forces, and the tension is between truth and lies. It is not a war against humans to be won by violent force. We are free to join either side. We can, as brothers and sisters of Christ, join Him in being Sons of the God of truth, the seed of the woman, or, if we live out the lies of the devil, we can, with him, become the seed of the Serpent, enslaved to the father of lies. To fight alongside Jesus means we speak the truth in love. We speak the truth because we love, and we love because we know the truth. Living that way in a world that is enslaved to lies and darkness may cost you your life (after all, it did cost Jesus His), but that is our calling.

That is a great post!!! I have just one question, why are we all not speaking German?

Same reason we all aren't speaking Hebrew or Greek or Latin or Mongol or any other language. It should be noted that it is perfectly possible to be a Christian and speak German. Paul found it reasonable to be a Christian (and a Jew) and also speak Greek. The Germany of the 20th century experienced God's judgement (if we're speaking from a biblical worldview), but I also won't fool myself into thinking that the America of today won't face the same judgement. Every nation has. Every nation will. It also may be worth noting that, in the Bible, God's judgement against the nations often looks exactly like national pride leading to war, death, and destruction. Daniel has a lot to say on that subject.

There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man. The fleshly part of me wants to lash out and call for judgment to fall on those we see suppressing the truth and hindering justice. Then I'm reminded to look at myself and remember it's only the grace of God that separates me from those who willfully walk in darkness.

God is looking on and there is nothing happening outside of His will.

We are not the shepherd, we are the sheep. lol

Jan. 6 wasn't even close to what could be considered a fight. If they thought that some kids in speedos wearing a buffalo hat and wielding a fire extinguisher is a threat to the country. Its going to be a real giggle when the actual fighting starts.

Having said that, reading some of the posts on this thread, Now it looks like I have to defend my patch from bot only the communist thugs and their jackboots but also from the religious folk that cant wait to get into a fight with anyone that does not cary a bible in their back pocket. I guess at least we all bleed the same.

Thanks Posco, I agree. Whenever I start to dwell too much on that desire to see God's judgement come down on those who deserve it, I have to remind myself of what Amos said:

Woe to you who are longing for the day of the LORD,
For what purpose will the day of the LORD be to you?
It will be darkness and not light;
As when a man flees from a lion
And a bear confronts him,
Or he goes home, leans with his hand against the wall,
And a snake bites him.
Will the day of the LORD not be darkness instead of light,
Even gloom with no brightness in it?

God's judgement will come against me too. And boy do I deserve it!

No it's a commandment of God for men to sit in judgement and exercise justice. Nothing from the old testament is changed except for meats and drinks, and divers washings and cardinal ordinances(sacrifices) The entire law of the old testament still stands and you were commanded to exercise judgement.

The reason all of this is happening is because the propaganda started on the churches in the early 1900s and now we got a limp wristed watered down version of Christianity but men were supposed to show themselves men and not allow this to happen. If we choose to go with God as our shield and Christ as our banner out in the light we are unstoppable

I can provide scripture if anyone needs it
But read Leviticus 15,19; Matthew 23:23; Hebrews 9 and Psalm 149

It's our job and duty to stop this. It's our failure and weakness that we dont

Our fight will be for your freedom to not carry that Bible. Your freedom to make that choice is important to God who granted it, I’m gonna fight for it too.

Do crusades normally end well?

I think the propaganda started much, much earlier. You can see Paul railing against it in his letters.

That depends who you ask. The folks that forged swords and chainmail etc. Made a killing I heard.

I haven't read everyone's post but do believe the Heavenly Father had a hand in establishing this nation and war was part of it.

Not exactly sure when the time is, but sure feels like it's at least a quarter til!

If not a quarter after!!!

There has been an Ishtar movement that started in California (actually Babylonia, the most famous being in the Story of Gilgamesh). Anyway it has moved well into the east and middle west and thriving amongst us. I had an inclination of it the night of Trumps' address to Congress and all the girls wore white. lol.

Every once in awhile I get what I guess one could call the Elijah syndrome. Its where I find myself wore out and thinking I've fought my last fight and ready to give up and hide in my cave and if I stayed there long enough it might become my final tomb. In my earlier days an old Sunday school teacher showed me this scripture and gave me some encouragement.

Elijah Flees Jezebel

1And Ahab told Jezebel all that Elijah had done, and withal how he had slain all the prophets with the sword. 2Then Jezebel sent a messenger unto Elijah, saying, So let the gods do to me, and more also, if I make not thy life as the life of one of them by to morrow about this time. 3And when he saw that, he arose, and went for his life, and came to Beersheba, which belongeth to Judah, and left his servant there. 4But he himself went a day's journey into the wilderness, and came and sat down under a juniper tree: and he requested for himself that he might die; and said, It is enough; now, O LORD, take away my life; for I am not better than my fathers. 5And as he lay and slept under a juniper tree, behold, then an angel touched him, and said unto him, Arise and eat. 6And he looked, and, behold, there was a cake baken on the coals, and a cruse of water at his head. And he did eat and drink, and laid him down again. 7And the angel of the LORD came again the second time, and touched him, and said, Arise and eat; because the journey is too great for thee. 8And he arose, and did eat and drink, and went in the strength of that meat forty days and forty nights unto Horeb the mount of God.

The Lord Speaks to Elijah at Horeb

9And he came thither unto a cave, and lodged there; and, behold, the word of the LORD came to him, and he said unto him, What doest thou here, Elijah? 10And he said, I have been very jealous for the LORD God of hosts: for the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away.

11And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the LORD. And, behold, the LORD passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the LORD; but the LORD was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the LORD was not in the earthquake: 12And after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice. 13And it was so, when Elijah heard it, that he wrapped his face in his mantle, and went out, and stood in the entering in of the cave. And, behold, there came a voice unto him, and said, What doest thou here, Elijah? 14And he said, I have been very jealous for the LORD God of hosts: because the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away.

15And the LORD said unto him, Go, return on thy way to the wilderness of Damascus: and when thou comest, anoint Hazael to be king over Syria: 16And Jehu the son of Nimshi shalt thou anoint to be king over Israel: and Elisha the son of Shaphat of Abelmeholah shalt thou anoint to be prophet in thy room. 17And it shall come to pass, that him that escapeth the sword of Hazael shall Jehu slay: and him that escapeth from the sword of Jehu shall Elisha slay. 18Yet I have left me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal, and every mouth which hath not kissed him.


Scuba1's words about swords and chainmail got me thinking about Gods' word and how it is sharp and cuts both ways. I suppose one hard part is that when it comes out of ones mouth not only does it cut ones self but we must also endure the agony when the enemy thinks its us and blames us even on top of our own miserable short comings. When in fact it's merely Gods' words. No doubt spirit battles can lead to flesh and blood battles. In that case I pray for His guidance and His Grace.