Take the time to read all these post and you can hopefully understand why so many people turn away from the church. I mean you people are so interested in proving your right in what You think and that those who don't agree with you are going straight to the BAD PLACE [tried to clean it up a little] that nothing else matters. It is just a shame you have to attack one another . But the bad guys happy you all are just making his job easier. And I realize what I just posted will make no difference to anyone. Okay feel better now carry on. lol

It matters, shows you are just as self righteous as everyone else.

Excuses by the Kingsmen is a good old song, but can't seem to find one on utube.

There's heathens and redeemed heathens.

What in the world are you guys arguing about?

Esoteric and debatable things.

Thanks Hobbie for putting the song up!

Trapper 7. I appreciate you response, but I don't you we are on the same page... Yet. The scriptures from 1 Corinthians are teaching us that even the least among us in a church that has allowed adultery to go unchecked is still better at judging a righteous judgment than the unsaved.

So all saved believers even you, can make a righteous judgment. You open the Bible and read the judgment written. It's that simple.

Next repentance is never used in conjunction with turning from sin. It is always being used to tell you to repent from unbelief to believing properly. Because faith is the only way anyone has ever been saved.

Matthew 21:32 KJV
For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.

Mark 1:15 KJV
And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Acts 19:4 KJV
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

If you are trusting in turning from sin for salvation then that is not biblical repentance. This is adding works to the gospel.

Don't forget that the book of John is the only gospel that claims it was written that you might be saved, and the word repent isn't found it in one time. Imagine being told this is written so you could be saved, reading those scriptures and never finding the doctrine of repent, but seeing over and over the clear teachings of believing for eternal life.

John 20:31 KJV
But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Do a word search on the term repent, believe, eternal, and everlasting in the book of John and let me know how it looks to you.

The commanded repentance is never about your sin in reference to salvation, but is always about your faith and what you believed before turning to Christ.

I mean even Abraham was saved by faith. Not repenting of sin, and of no amount of works.

Romans 4:1-5 KJV
What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? [2] For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. [3] For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. [4] Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. [5] But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

You went off the rails when you suggested a sinner can be saved without repentance.

It is not.

Keep your hands upon the throttle
And your eye upon the rail!

Right on Posco!

The Apostle Paul knew a thing or two about how to plant and operate a Godly church and his letters to Timothy, the young preacher in Ephesus, the 2nd largest city in the Roman Empire at that time are timeless and help us a great deal when we gather together as the Body of Christ and discuss things of God.

I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom:
preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with great patience and instruction.

Nowhere in the NT, and Paul authored half of it, does Paul exhort or instruct anyone to call other believers names, shout them down, mock them if they don't think like you, or tell them they're going straight to h_l_ in an attempt to minister, shepherd, preach or teach.

I'm Paulian as can be, because he was called by our Lord to bring the Gospel to Gentiles... like me.
Jesus spoking about the fruit of his followers being evident was written down for us 38 times by the Gospel writers and Paul explained it also in his letter to the Church in Galatia;
"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,"

This is how we're to address one another. Who said so? Jesus.
With great patience and instruction, loving each other because God first loved us.
I hope we can camp here more often.

Blessings,
Mark

Wonder what Solomon would say about cutting faith and repentance in half. Possibly he would say neither would survive for long.

I'm doing okay? Good to know.

Or John the Baptist.

I tend to follow Yotetrappers take on it. But really, why does it even matter......pre, mid, or post trib?

From what I understand, we are to dwell on God's word and pray for the Holy Spirit to give us direction and understanding of that Word. I don't think anyone posting on this thread is less faithful than the next. I know for me personally, as I have read the Bible and continue to learn throughout my life, my thoughts have changed over that time. There is no doubt in my mind that the Word of God is Devine and the Spirit leads us to the next step in our walk. Some, like me are just toddlers, yet others are runners. In my walk, the Holy Spirit led me to an interpretation of the Bible that suited my being and thoughts at that time, then as I continued to learn, grow, and expound on what I learned sometimes it made me take a closer look and re-think. Regardless, I know I am moving forward.

I think the Holy Spirit deals with all of us differently depending on where we are in that walk; as well as, our past experiences and life that clearly give us individual bias. What makes sense to me, may not make sense to Posco, or Mark, or Ken, or JStaton, or Yes Sir, or Foxpaw, or any other Child of God. But does it really matter? We all agree that Jesus Christ is the Silver Bullet. But how we get to and grow with Jesus Christ may be different. I see it as raising kids, which we all are in God's eyes. He is the parent and knows best for us, and I think what may be the best direction for some may be different than others. Just like our own children. Just my thoughts. I am not a theologian.

I'm with yotetrapper but only the good Lord knows for sure

I'm inclined to agree. I could land in pre or mid trib based on my understanding of the subject but haven't gelled on it. I hope God would give me the grace to die well no matter the circumstance.