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Re: Mark of the beast comes from the middle east [Re: HobbieTrapper] #7768615
01/11/23 12:30 AM
01/11/23 12:30 AM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 2,842
Wy
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Giant Sage Offline
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Wy
Your conversation makes me think af Acts 19: 1-7 Paul finds certain disciples , he ask them if they have received the Holy Ghost since ye believed. They new of no Holy Ghost. Paul asked unto what have you been baptized . And they said unto John's baptism. Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should came after him, that is on Christ Jesus. Then they were baptized in the name of the lord Jesus . Paul lays his hands on them and the Holy Ghost comes upon them.
I'm paraphrasing.

Re: Mark of the beast comes from the middle east [Re: Giant Sage] #7768622
01/11/23 12:42 AM
01/11/23 12:42 AM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 2,842
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Giant Sage Offline
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So was belief what was important or is repentance necessary? In John 3:5 Jesus answered, verily, verily, I say unto thee. Except a man be born of water and of the spirit, he can not enter into the kingdom of God.
So does John's water baptism represent repentance ? And does faith or belief represent the spirit?
Born of water and spirit.

Re: Mark of the beast comes from the middle east [Re: rick brocious] #7768657
01/11/23 01:45 AM
01/11/23 01:45 AM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 11,775
Amite county Mississippi
Wolfdog91 Offline OP
trapper
Wolfdog91  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 11,775
Amite county Mississippi
Originally Posted by rick brocious
Originally Posted by Wolfdog91
This is MY EXCUSE why I don't go to church tired
Fixed it for you .

Cute

Re: Mark of the beast comes from the middle east [Re: rex123] #7768659
01/11/23 01:49 AM
01/11/23 01:49 AM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 11,775
Amite county Mississippi
Wolfdog91 Offline OP
trapper
Wolfdog91  Offline OP
trapper

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Amite county Mississippi
Originally Posted by rex123
Take the time to read all these post and you can hopefully understand why so many people turn away from the church. I mean you people are so interested in proving your right in what You think and that those who don't agree with you are going straight to the BAD PLACE [tried to clean it up a little] that nothing else matters. It is just a shame you have to attack one another . But the bad guys happy you all are just making his job easier. And I realize what I just posted will make no difference to anyone. Okay feel better now carry on. lol

Yep... And no in gets this .... The same people who feel if you don't feel something from something they did something must not be right about you. I've actually asked alot of pagens I'm friends with why they went away from Christianity and well....

Re: Mark of the beast comes from the middle east [Re: AntiGov] #7768660
01/11/23 01:51 AM
01/11/23 01:51 AM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 11,775
Amite county Mississippi
Wolfdog91 Offline OP
trapper
Wolfdog91  Offline OP
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 11,775
Amite county Mississippi
Originally Posted by AntiGov
[Linked Image]

Reminds me of the quote. " If you need God and the threat of (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) to be a good person then your just a bad person in a leash"

Re: Mark of the beast comes from the middle east [Re: Wolfdog91] #7768663
01/11/23 01:55 AM
01/11/23 01:55 AM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 11,194
Maine, Aroostook
Posco Offline
trapper
Posco  Offline
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Maine, Aroostook
Originally Posted by Wolfdog91
Originally Posted by AntiGov
[Linked Image]

Reminds me of the quote. " If you need God and the threat of (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) to be a good person then your just a bad person in a leash"

Those memes might be cute but they're created and appreciated by people who have no understanding of the plague of their own hearts.

Re: Mark of the beast comes from the middle east [Re: Wolfdog91] #7768676
01/11/23 03:07 AM
01/11/23 03:07 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,475
WI>>>MN >>>WI
T-Rex Offline
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The study of logic, and the study of religion are based upon two totally different premises. From where i stand they are not compatible with each other.


Man who mistake shillelagh for fairy wand; see pixie dust, also.
Re: Mark of the beast comes from the middle east [Re: Wolfdog91] #7768678
01/11/23 03:33 AM
01/11/23 03:33 AM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,240
Minnesota
Woodsloafer72 Offline
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,240
Minnesota
I'm enjoying reading this discussion. Thank you all for your contributions.

Re: Mark of the beast comes from the middle east [Re: Giant Sage] #7768679
01/11/23 04:22 AM
01/11/23 04:22 AM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 3,492
Southern Illinois
F
Foxpaw Offline
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Southern Illinois
Originally Posted by Giant Sage
So was belief what was important or is repentance necessary? In John 3:5 Jesus answered, verily, verily, I say unto thee. Except a man be born of water and of the spirit, he can not enter into the kingdom of God.
So does John's water baptism represent repentance ? And does faith or belief represent the spirit?
Born of water and spirit.


If this was directed to me, then I'm sorry I dozed off.
Seems to me John's baptism was a type of forgiveness of sins which sufficed until something better came. Water is a symbolic washing to signal cleanness whether submerged as a bath or sprinkled as splashing. None of which was more than pointing forward much like the shedding of animals blood was. God gave a sign of the animal skins in the garden that He wouldn't leave the human race without a way of redemption. The shedding of animals blood was looking forward unto the day when Jesus would give His blood for man. When Adam was made from clay he was in a perfect state and had no sin until that fatal sin in the garden. God is not bound by His laws but does honor them in instances. Its justice when a wrong is done and the judgement would be a price or trade of equal value. There is also silver sockets used for the bases in the Tabernacle that points to redemption. So since Adam was in a sinless state at the beginning before he sinned and God killed him it took a sacrifice of equal value. Adam was sinless before the fall and thus the Second Adam was sinless also. Thus no remission of sins without the shedding of blood was fulfilled. Again the institution of animal sacrifice will be put into place during the millennium. There will be children being born at that time and again it is a looking forward to a already paid redemption.

As to the Baptism we have in church today it is an outward show, showing the world there is an inward change of the believer. It has no saving quality and if you dunk an unsaved person, they go down a dry sinner and come up a wet one.

As to the born of water and Spirit. The water could represent the water in the womb, it could refer to the washing again as in baptism and Spirit of God does the miracle, not of reforming but of regeneration and/or a spiritual rebirth. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are persons. Some now days are teaching the Son is a created Angel and the Holy Spirit is an agent to do God's bidding, errands, etc. I believe we receive the Holy Spirit when we are truly born again, how else would we know we was born again. I believe our conscience is the agent which can operate free of our control. One might say it is the deputy to our soul. We can override it again and again and finally become a reprobate but our conscience can lock or freeze up, some might say slain in the Spirit. No condition can deem us with no hope except unbelief. That is belief in Jesus. Yes when Jesus was here on earth he did miracles that would be a reason for faith, but after His death, His resurrection was of ultimate faith quality. We have a risen Savior,

I am sure this is incomplete and if there is any other comments please do so. If I see the need to pickup I will do so too.

Last edited by Foxpaw; 01/11/23 04:28 AM.
Re: Mark of the beast comes from the middle east [Re: Foxpaw] #7768695
01/11/23 06:29 AM
01/11/23 06:29 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 28,715
Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper Offline
"Chippendale Trapper"
HobbieTrapper  Offline
"Chippendale Trapper"

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 28,715
Eastern Shore of Maryland
Originally Posted by Foxpaw
Where was Judas's faith. He was walking by sight and faith. He saw Jesus heal his father Simon the leper , yet did he repent of what he was about to do for 30 pieces of silver. No or he would not have done it, you can't repent of future sin and still do it ?


Are you saying he didn’t believe or have faith Jesus was who He said He was?

I believe Jesus commented more than once about their “little” faith but I can’t find where He commented about their “No” faith or absence of faith.


-Goofy-
Re: Mark of the beast comes from the middle east [Re: Wolfdog91] #7768709
01/11/23 07:11 AM
01/11/23 07:11 AM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 9,915
Arkansas
J
J Staton Offline
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 9,915
Arkansas
Originally Posted by Wolfdog91
Originally Posted by rex123
Take the time to read all these post and you can hopefully understand why so many people turn away from the church. I mean you people are so interested in proving your right in what You think and that those who don't agree with you are going straight to the BAD PLACE [tried to clean it up a little] that nothing else matters. It is just a shame you have to attack one another . But the bad guys happy you all are just making his job easier. And I realize what I just posted will make no difference to anyone. Okay feel better now carry on. lol

Yep... And no in gets this .... The same people who feel if you don't feel something from something they did something must not be right about you. I've actually asked alot of pagens I'm friends with why they went away from Christianity and well....

The answer they gave you and the real truth of the matter are likely two different things. If they truly believed they would be compelled to turn from the worldly things they so cherish. The idea likely scares them.


James 1: 19-20
Re: Mark of the beast comes from the middle east [Re: Wolfdog91] #7768717
01/11/23 07:24 AM
01/11/23 07:24 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,779
Northern lower Michigan
Feedinggrounds Offline
trapper
Feedinggrounds  Offline
trapper

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,779
Northern lower Michigan
Originally Posted by Wolfdog91
Originally Posted by rex123
Take the time to read all these post and you can hopefully understand why so many people turn away from the church. I mean you people are so interested in proving your right in what You think and that those who don't agree with you are going straight to the BAD PLACE [tried to clean it up a little] that nothing else matters. It is just a shame you have to attack one another . But the bad guys happy you all are just making his job easier. And I realize what I just posted will make no difference to anyone. Okay feel better now carry on. lol

Yep... And no in gets this .... The same people who feel if you don't feel something from something they did something must not be right about you. I've actually asked alot of pagens I'm friends with why they went away from Christianity and well....

I'm much older than you, I have friendships that are older than you twice. I only know the religion of the ones sitting in the same church as myself. I have no furry friends, Trans friends, that I know of....Just not something my circle talks about. More often talking of trucks, trees, fish bites, traps, hunting of all sorts, helping sick or troubled friends, community projects or weather. Maybe I have Pagan friends, Gay, or Trans friends but I guess if I don't know by now I never will....


you're only allowed so many sunrises... I aim to see every one of them!
Re: Mark of the beast comes from the middle east [Re: Wolfdog91] #7768720
01/11/23 07:31 AM
01/11/23 07:31 AM

M
Mark June
Unregistered
Mark June
Unregistered
M



How wonderful! These last few posts by HT, Giant Sage, Chauncey, Posco and Foxpaw are fruitful evidence of how theology (discussion of God) is done.

I hear as a pastor from people who want to talk to someone about the God they love and cherish, yet they say, "My _____ doesn't really want to talk about God." When I ask why, they answer, "Because they always end up fighting." I remind them that's simply called pride and sometimes even anger, or envy, or any host of sinful attributes we have because we have an Adamic nature in us.

All of us talk about the things in our lives that we love. And what we relish talking about and how we go about doing it says a lot about the path we're on.

Every follower of Christ knows in their heart of hearts that they are not who they once were. And in that realization, Jesus told people to "sin no more."
Help us Holy Spirit to move in that direction because the enemy, the world and our flesh, prefer mockery, name calling, disparagement and ridicule as their means to an end.

Great discussion y'all!

Blessings,
Mark

Re: Mark of the beast comes from the middle east [Re: T-Rex] #7768733
01/11/23 07:47 AM
01/11/23 07:47 AM

M
Mark June
Unregistered
Mark June
Unregistered
M



Originally Posted by T-Rex
The study of logic, and the study of religion are based upon two totally different premises. From where i stand they are not compatible with each other.


By religion, are you referring to God because "religion" can refer to anything people place their faith in?

Re: Mark of the beast comes from the middle east [Re: HobbieTrapper] #7768851
01/11/23 10:50 AM
01/11/23 10:50 AM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 3,492
Southern Illinois
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Foxpaw Offline
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Foxpaw  Offline
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Southern Illinois
Originally Posted by HobbieTrapper
Originally Posted by Foxpaw
Where was Judas's faith. He was walking by sight and faith. He saw Jesus heal his father Simon the leper , yet did he repent of what he was about to do for 30 pieces of silver. No or he would not have done it, you can't repent of future sin and still do it ?


Are you saying he didn’t believe or have faith Jesus was who He said He was?

I believe Jesus commented more than once about their “little” faith but I can’t find where He commented about their “No” faith or absence of faith.


Judas knew Jesus healed his dad, but maybe it was more by sight than faith. For some reason he found himself in a state that he couldn't change his mind. Some would say he was just made that way. For what ever reason he was locked out. Pharaoh saw God's power and he admitted he had sinned. But he had held on to the idea that he, himself was 100% right and god of his world and influenced by his Nile god and had become prideful in it and could not let go. Again my tulip friends would say he was made that way from the beginning. Esau found no place for repentance.

For myself I look at it like this. If I find dry rot in my floor, do I just cover it over with more paint or do I tear it out before it consumes the whole house. When I finally have to fix it how many peelings of paint do I have to tear off before I again can see something solid. Layers of an onion depends on where and how its grown and the variety. Most problems are best dealt with when they are small. I do best weeding my own garden, if I get over on my wife's side, I don't know the difference between weeds and some of her flowers.

Re: Mark of the beast comes from the middle east [Re: Posco] #7768870
01/11/23 11:14 AM
01/11/23 11:14 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,594
MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
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Trapper7 Offline
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Originally Posted by Posco
My point is, the number of those who would become saints was determined before the foundation of the world. God's elect. I'm a Baptist but could probably pass for a conservative Presbyterian.

I went to a Baptist church for quite a few years. I've been to quite a few different denominations. Of all of them, I agree mostly with what Baptist's believe. I feel their interpretation of the bible is the most accurate. The one I went to firmly would disavow predestination. But, I understand what you are saying isn't predestination and I wouldn't disagree with what you've said about a certain number. That means we have a choice to where we'll be spending eternity.


I don't care how nice the hand soap smells, you should never walk out of the restroom sniffing your fingers.
Re: Mark of the beast comes from the middle east [Re: Foxpaw] #7768873
01/11/23 11:22 AM
01/11/23 11:22 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 28,715
Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper Offline
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Eastern Shore of Maryland
Originally Posted by Foxpaw


Judas knew Jesus healed his dad, but maybe it was more by sight than faith. For some reason he found himself in a state that he couldn't change his mind. Some would say he was just made that way. For what ever reason he was locked out. Pharaoh saw God's power and he admitted he had sinned. But he had held on to the idea that he, himself was 100% right and god of his world and influenced by his Nile god and had become prideful in it and could not let go. Again my tulip friends would say he was made that way from the beginning. Esau found no place for repentance.

For myself I look at it like this. If I find dry rot in my floor, do I just cover it over with more paint or do I tear it out before it consumes the whole house. When I finally have to fix it how many peelings of paint do I have to tear off before I again can see something solid. Layers of an onion depends on where and how its grown and the variety. Most problems are best dealt with when they are small. I do best weeding my own garden, if I get over on my wife's side, I don't know the difference between weeds and some of her flowers.


First, I think we are on the same page, just maybe different places on it. lol

We will sin until the day we leave the flesh. Even a man that declares he is without sin has sinned by doing so.


Last edited by HobbieTrapper; 01/11/23 11:32 AM.

-Goofy-
Re: Mark of the beast comes from the middle east [Re: Wolfdog91] #7768874
01/11/23 11:23 AM
01/11/23 11:23 AM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 745
South Central Kansas
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South Central Kansas
We do have a choice, and apart from Gods grace that choice will always be wrong.


Derek
Re: Mark of the beast comes from the middle east [Re: KsTrapper88] #7768903
01/11/23 12:02 PM
01/11/23 12:02 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,594
MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
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Trapper7 Offline
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Originally Posted by KsTrapper88
We do have a choice, and apart from Gods grace that choice will always be wrong.

Can't argue with you on that. Thank goodness we have a gracious God.


I don't care how nice the hand soap smells, you should never walk out of the restroom sniffing your fingers.
Re: Mark of the beast comes from the middle east [Re: Trapper7] #7768905
01/11/23 12:02 PM
01/11/23 12:02 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 11,194
Maine, Aroostook
Posco Offline
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Posco  Offline
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Maine, Aroostook
Originally Posted by Trapper7
Originally Posted by Posco
My point is, the number of those who would become saints was determined before the foundation of the world. God's elect. I'm a Baptist but could probably pass for a conservative Presbyterian.

I went to a Baptist church for quite a few years. I've been to quite a few different denominations. Of all of them, I agree mostly with what Baptist's believe. I feel their interpretation of the bible is the most accurate. The one I went to firmly would disavow predestination. But, I understand what you are saying isn't predestination and I wouldn't disagree with what you've said about a certain number. That means we have a choice to where we'll be spending eternity.

[Linked Image]

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