Systematic theology taking place here.

How do you feel about the great councils who hammered out doctrine for 300 years, over a millennia and a half ago?
That must have been something to behold and here we are today, awash in easy believism and individualism based on simplistic salvific premises and prideful proclamation that they don't need nobody but God.

All this cheapens what Christ did for us before, during and after the Cross.
We are made in the image of God and it's not good for us to be alone. For that we thank God and ask him to Shine His Face upon us and help us because we're not very good by ourselves.

Blessings!
Mark

So God telling us that whosoever believeth on Jesus can be saved is the same as only God chooses who is saved? Ok

And no not really I'm your huckleberry, what do you got? Elect is synonymous with servant, and saint depending where you read the scriptures. The saints are the servants of God and obey the gospel. The elect shall inherit the earth. Isaiah 65:9
In the gospel of Mark we see both of these words together in the same verse and they tend to lean to each other as speaking about Jesus and all of those who believe on him. See if you just repent of your unbelief and choose the gospel you won't need to make up doctrines to make you special enough to go to heaven.
You can just repent and believe.

Mark 13:20 KJV
And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.

Jesus is the chosen of God, all those who believe on him are chosen by inheritance, the elect or saints according to the Bible. These doctrines and words you speak of are elementary.

Wait till we get into the whole Israel church separation ehh, this is where this chosen talk is leading us isn't it. I'm game. Play on Posco

Wait till we get into the whole Israel church separation ehh, this is where this chosen talk is leading us isn't it. I'm game. Play on Posco

Now were talking,..I'll start and end here!

Man there is nothing prideful or I’m special about God choosing based on no merit of your own. Abraham was not so holy and righteous that God chose him, he laughed when told he would have a son, Jacob was not a better man than Esau, any born again believer is not inherently a better person because they “chose” God, if they are better or sanctified it is because God chose to show is grace.

“For by grace you have been saved, through faith, and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God not a result of works that no man may boast”

I’m not really in this argument but the idea that believing in Gods sovereignty and mans total depravity makes me some privileged “special” or whatever rubs me wrong. I brought nothing to the table besides a need a for a savior and if I’m found among the elect it is only by Gods grace, not by my wisdom to make the right choice, any right choice I’ve made has been Gods grace in me. And as a result of that grace and the Spirit in me I seek to better know my Lord, better serve Him, and better worship Him.

that is a very nice testimony thank you!!

And that's just it. God chose his only begotten Son..we just chose to believe on him. There is no special group of gifted Bible scholars that will go to heaven because they learned hermeneutics and interpreted the Bible "properly" lol, every man is on an equal playing field and all deserve the punishment of death and H3||. This is why you must believe that Jesus paid your price and in his resurrection. So the grace of God can be passed down to us by inheritance.

Romans 3:19-24 KJV
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. [20] Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. [21] But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; [22] Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: [23] For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; [24] Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Romans 9:10-28, Deut. 7:7-8

Generous of you to give him the handicap.

Americas promise,..is it foretold,..sent here and obliged,..will it be enacted on such?

There are interpretive styles on how we read Scripture. Some people read it more literally. Some translations are made by translations attempting to be literal to the original text. Some people read with more symbolism and some translations are hammered out with more symbolism. It can be fruitful and most certainly honoring and worshipful to God when we sit among ourselves as His called people and seek God's Truth in the Logos (Writing).

Verse 11 of that Roman passage is one of very literal meaning, if you read Scripture literally.
"for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls,"


There are 202 more times kalleo:called is written in the NT and 525X in the entire 66 canonical text Protestants use.
1 Corinthians 1:1; "Paul, called as an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,"

1 Corinthians 1:9 "God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord."

1 Corinthians 1:24 "but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God."

God's doing the calling is all throughout His Story and some people in history have struggled to believe how this can be absolute because they want to include their human works in the equation. Pelagius was the most notable. His writings on the denial of original sin and his thesis that human action is critical to the mechanism of salvation.... were deemed heretical by convened councils in his time (4th century) and later also. Jacobus Arminius took that similar tack in the late 1500's and early 1600's, taking up some of Pelagius's thesis once again, which was met with staunch theological resistance by peers because Arminius preached and taught that an unregenerate man as well as the regenerate man could feel passionate conviction and desire for salvation with the influence of the Law and the Holy Spirit. Humans once again more so at the wheel of salvation and less so God.

So how much do we do and how much does God do? I suppose there's always been controversy on what people do and what God does, and that won't change until the 2nd Coming.
Me, I'm of the total total depravity camp. I believe I hated God, anything to do with God, any time someone tried to talk about God, this/that/and the other related to God.....
until such time as God alone called by His grace and non of mine.
I had nothing to do with it. I know me and I know how my pride, envy, and all the rest operate.

So that's why I don't fret about God's plan and who's in control. People or God. He gave us the will to do what we want but when He opens our hearts, our list of choices changes. Not before.
I'm Augustinian.... who argued against Pelagius.... that prior to God's calling I thought I was operating with a fully intact list to choose from. The doctrine of human depravity, based on Scripture, tells me my viewfinder didn't have any - not even one - godly choices on it.

Blessings,
Mark

What promise are you referring to mnsota?

Blessings,
Mark

The devil knows of God, I doubt he believes in Him otherwise he would know he loses.

Good point HT. I wasn't using the word believe as in "to believe."

After catching up a bit I noticed a number of individualism references? Do we each not have our own story? Do we all have the same things in our life that need to change to become who God’s will requires us? Are we one the expressway or is the road narrow with trials and tribulations?

Yes HT, and the premise of individualism isn't in any way a discount of the role God plays individually in us.... it's the premise that we determine our walk with God should be done apart and separate from everyone else.

Since we are called to 'make disciples' to 'the ends of the earth' is that task accomplished easier as a group/church or as an individual?

When you say separate from everyone else are you actually meaning “the rules don’t apply to me” separate?

The resources of a group is much greater than those of an individual, however, not all people are excited by a group and an individual holds the greater advantage.

God’s gift is a one size fits all but the methods of knitting it are many.

I mean when people champion their own path apart from other followers don't they discount Jesus' departing instructions meant for our good?

"teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

What did Jesus teach them? Scripture says over and over, Love God, Love others.
Jesus sat among sinners. So, so should we. You, me, them, we're all sinners.
It's only a post-modern phenomenon that people are taught that Love God is all there is.
Makes it so easy to hate other people when you claim God is on your side, right?

That's what Individualism speaks to.