The numbers have come out, 80% of our Deer and Antelope, and posibly as high as 70% of our Elk have succumbed to this harsh winter. Wyoming is ready to shut off all cow and doe licenses and some units for elk and deer. Colorado is considering it but they still want people (mostly non-residents) to come and spend dollars, we need to shut down all antlerless seasons and severely restrict most bull elk, buck deer and antelope. On top of the worst winter kill since the 40's the state wildlife agency now has to begin introducing wolves this year. This may be the end of big game hunting in Colorado.

Colorado increased their cow license to $750 for non-residents. That will help reduce the number of non-residents.

We NEED to quit killing cows and does altogether, it's that bad. The state has to many special interest groups feeding at the trough of wildlife. The restaurant lobby, the hotel lobby, the liquor lobby, the outfitters lobby, the retailing lobby, it's become all about money in Colorado. CPW has become "Toys R Us" with all the fancy equipment, new trucks, our Governor pandering to animal rights activists and environmentalists by promoting a ballot initiative to divert millions of dollars to wolf reintroduction when they are already coming back organically and for free. They throw away money on this when they shouldn't be diverting needed funds for other critical wildlife programs.

Ooooooooh that wascawy global warming!

Osky

That's a shame to hear this was planning on trying to hunt next year, seemed like game populations were down out there last year.
You got a link to the winter kill story?

Just begin Googleing it's all over about how bad the deep snow winter kill is. Wyoming Game and Fish provides a hunting update about reducing licenses significantly to allow the herds to begin to rebound. The adult males and the fawns took the hit the worst.

Most DNR'S now, have an agenda. Y'all have a struggle ahead of you and think about it. Ya wouldn't if your DNR was in your camp.

I have been talking to ranchers all over the state and we have been pondering shutting down are properties and access to all hunting regardless of what the state wants.

don't know your particulars --maybe a smart move -- the state (ours anyway) doesn't have a clue or care about any of the critters -- just the politicians and the greenies.

Double wammy this year, tough winter after several years of drought. Even lost a lot of calves this year could not get them out of the weather fast enough. At least we should get some good forage this year with the moisture.

The spring fly over elk count in Northwest Colorado that occurs every year is now supposed to be done again. The results were determined to be incorrect, there can't possibly be that few elk in the Northwest herd that survived the winter. Boots on the ground and observing tracks tell a tale of not many survivors up here. Western Wyoming is really bad to.

One year we were staying in Maybell, CO. The hotel owner said the previous winter elk were walking down main street because the snow was so deep in the hills. Many of them died that winter from starvation and a harsh winter.

What's in it for CPW? Are the doe and cow hunts lotteries $$$$$$$?

Remember when they raised it to $450 or 500, then complained about not enough cows being taken, then dropped it to $250?

I think in some areas that may be a good idea.

We lucked out this winter.
Our mule deer look great for what we have right now.
Been seeing good fawn survival.
Even pronghorn look good so far, nice bucks coming right along with horn growth.
Elk are still over objective too.

Parts of the state are dismal and some are fine, go figure.
We could use some moisture actually.

One small piece of the pie. State wide its bad

Across the counter license sales, come, show up and buy a tag. That will probably end soon. Who wants to spend big money to hunt where there used to be big game, but it all died. The state will still sell you a tag, even if there is nothing left to hunt in that unit. Been doing that for years, 3rd and fourth season high country deer tags, to hunt after they have migrated to lower country, after the first snow.

I tried to comprehend Colorado Big Game Regulations. Tomorrow I will see if my lawyer can explain them to me. Something about preference points and collecting them and not getting money back, and special hunts, for special people, using special weapons all at special times.

this winter there will be a problem with hungry predators

Well we have closed close to 200,000 acres to private and road access to blm and forest so far and just starting. If the state wont protect the wildlife we will and winter feed most of it.

Supplemental feeding is probably a good solution (in the future) it's to late now. Most ungulates are still dropping over dead. We got another 8" last night, which means the early onion grass that is important to big game in the spring will not come up maybe until May. And Dirt, yep, it's getting to need to be a law school graduate to figure out the Colorado wildlife licensing regulations and applying for permits. All across the counter licenses are either for way over hunted public areas, or private land areas that cost to much money to hunt, unless you're very well off.

Regardless of wildlife, this stance from you is not surprising. Purposely keeping citizens from property they own, whether they are hunting or just recreating, is wrongful. But as stated, with your positions on things not surprising…. We all know you and your ilk kniw what is best for us…

I’m sure the hunters paying high dollars will still be allowed on.
I’m not sure how wildlife survived for 1000s of years before Danvee was around to protect them.

And yes, I understand about winter ranges & travel corridors being lost or transformed by human development or barriers. Just that public land is public land. No different than wealthy folks buying up land in order to landlock vast expanses of public land and allowing no access in my mind.

Supplemental feeding is not a good choice look at what is happening on the Jackson wildlife refuge as well as others. The elk are spreading covid, bangs, scabies and TB.. Then leave in the spring and spread it to uninfected animals and cattle. As far as keeping people off private that is our choice. As far as keeping people off public land by access of my land that is our choice. They can access public during none hunting or through other means but not during hunting season. My family wont be hunting this year. As far as what you think about me or my choices to protect wildlife that I feed for six months of the year, I could give a flying flip and you can stay in your state and think what you want. I have let folks on to hunt for over 60 years and manage for wildlife and a good hunting experience. Most years folks have harvested over 30 elk and I would not venture to guess how many deer or antelope. If the game and fish dont care we do, stay home if you dont like it.

Oh I did mean Chronic wasting not covid though I do hear covid and avian flu is now getting mammals. Maybe just maybe this bad winter may stop some of the crud killing wildlife natures way but you need some brood stock.

They're putting the Hunter on the Endangered species list.

It's people with your attitude that is killing the wildlife. Don't kid yourself, you're responsible for the spread of those diseases.

Wyoming is the only state I know of where you can block access to public land. And most of the ranchers I know of there charge for access during hunting season. Just like Texas where you have to be rich to hunt. Except Wyoming does still have a lot of public land you hunt, but there is a lot of public land you can't get to either.

Renting a helicopter ride to access private locked public land is always fun. Especially when the private owner realizes they can't do a thing about it except get all upset because their monopoly was broke.

Danvee - will you have livestock on that public land? Wouldn’t that livestock be taking food that would otherwise help the animals? So if you are worried about the animals, then you should not graze that public land.
I believe if ranchers use landlocked public land for grazing then they should be required to allow access to that public land.
Is now a good time to talk about corner crossing?

^^^^^

I do. They lost over half of their non-resident hunters that year. So, they dropped the price the following year back to the $250.

True dat rite dare !!!!

w

^^^^^
I'd say not most in our state, but we do have our share with anterior motives

Wildlife Biology 101 says you don't artificially feed wildlife, as it
restricts their range, concentrates the herds, exposes them
to higher rates of predation & spread of disease,
and damages the range for years to come due to over browsing,

Better to let nature take it course to bring those artificially high
populations of game animals (that are protected on land locked
public land and private ground and sold to sport hunters as a
cash crop by landowners) back down to the true carrying capacity
of the range.

w

Good to see that public land is actually being accessed. I knew a guy that had a helicopter and hunted all by himself on public land. Cubs might work too.

The public land access issue in Wyoming is unique.
The positives that I see as a Wyoming resident is that Wyoming is still legislated by influence of the ranching community. This is a plus when it comes to protecting our rights to hunt trap and fish. Fortunately according to our constitution each state has some sovereignty left.
That is as long as we don't put in politician's that will give our sovereignty away. We as individuals should have the right to deny access through private property. This should olso be a sovereign right. I think that using eniment domain for creating public access has been considered. The Game and fish commission has a pretty good relationship with ranchers and farmers on there walk in programs for hunting and using eniment domain may damage this relationship. Most ranchers that lease land locked public land will alow trapping but not to just anyone . Usually to a reputable responsible trapper who they trust . Is this right? I can't say. I do know if I had an issue with these policies I'd either become involved in politics or leave Wyoming. Not!!!

Public land that can’t be accessed isn’t exactly public land. DNR or the State should have an easement to such land or deny anyone rights to it. From what I’ve seen is private land that has their own free grazing and hunting paid for by the taxpayers. Guess it’s welfare for ranchers. I own this, but I want this for free and someone else to pay for it. Not the brightest thinking by DNR.

“wildlife that I feed for six months of the year”. Here is where you lose me, you own the land, great. But the mentality that the animals are only on the pastures because of you is asinine. Those animals were there and thrived at times and starved at times for eons before your gracious care of them came to be. I have no problem with what you do with your land, just leave the rest of us to ours. BTW, I don’t overcharge for you to graze my land do I??? Before you fly off the handle, think for a second of what I have said. I truly mean no disrespect, just an exchange of ideas.

Railroads have done it here in Wisconsin.

Feeding at the Jackson Wyoming feed ground is irrelevant to supplemental feeding in the states with terrible big game winterkill this year. Comparing feed grounds that operate each and every winter, all winter long, to a one time food supplementation for a 50+ year catastrophic starvation event is not looking at this accurately. Losing 80 plus percent of the herd over such a vast area, almost certainly requires an almost total ban on hunting , at least for does, fawns and cow elk. Some who feel entitled to be able to "get one every year" will never understand this. Science based wildlife management such as the North American Model means harvesting excess animals, and slowing down when there are catastrophic events like a winter kill of 80% of the herd. I love the hunt as much as anyone, but there is sometimes a reason to back off.

Is there no such thing as road allowances there?

Here it doesn’t matter if someone owns 10 square miles with no roads. Where ever that mile road would go through is fair travel for anyone.

One Idaho you can close your access across private land same true in most states especially western states. Yes I do grass cattle on public land and sheep on another allotment in a different part of the state. Guess who feeds the wildlife during the winter especially elk and deer not the public land but the private owners. I would guess to venture Wyoming wildlife is 80% fed 6 months out of the year on private land. I pay to graze livestock and do the maintenance on water developments and fences and even a road in one situation. As far as accessing public land by helicopter have at it but the BLM and Forest Service might have some issues with it. I have at times entered into agreements for hunter management and it went south due to off road use, litter illegal camping and poaching also to head of cattle shot with arrows??? yeah hard to mistake a cow at 40 yards.

TCL Come out to Wyoming in the winter especially one like this year and see where the wildlife is trying to survive. Its not BLM or Forest its private. Deer, elk, antelope turkey all on private

Sorry danvee but that is not correct.
Read parts of this : https://www.nfwf.org/sites/default/files/2022-09/wyoming-action-plan.pdf

Wildlife winter on a variety of lands and in some areas it is primarily federal lands not private.
In Eastern Wyo, yes they winter on private lands mostly due to small amounts of public land.
I believe the Bighorns area has private land winter range as well too though.

wytex, That report was from a year ago, this ridiculously deep snow winter has drastically altered normal migration patterns and changed the dynamics of where large ungulates moved to. The Red Desert is a good example right here north of me. The few animals left (and this is where elk normally wintered from the Colorado mountains to the south) as well as the resident deer and antelope, were somewhat stranded on the roads the energy companies kept open to get to wells. Sometimes trucks would kill them by the dozen. This weather changed habits. To be fair I haven't personally seen what shape the herds are in NE Wyoming, but western Colorado and SE Wyoming herds appear to be devastated.

Winterkill happens. Sometimes its really bad. G&F will cut back on things, success rates of course will fall and over time the herds will improve again.

I did not read but skimmed through the document dont have time but Im dang near 80 years old and got a bit of history with wildlife. I know not ALL wildlife winters on private but read historical evidence prior to farming the wildlife was not near what it is now save antelope. We never even had whitetail deer in the state till the late 60s they came in with intensive farming. We would not have near the wildlife without the farming and nothing will change my stance on that. The hay fields and other crops keep the amount of wildlife going in the winter. The document you posted is primarily about migration routes to winter range, much of the historical winter range is now gone and filled with 5 acre ranchettes which makes farm ground more important yet. Just read the literature the Wyoming game is putting out about the historic winter kill this year and they are doing the science on it. Do what you want and kill what you want this year, your choice. Ranchers have had the worst year since 77, 78 even for cattle trying to keep them fed. There is no excess wildlife for the most part this year. Do the research of what happened in the dust bowl and turn of the century there were almost NO elk left in Wyoming and they protected them and after the herd got going actually moved them to other parts of the state to start new herds. If memory serves me right they figured there were less than 1500 head of elk left in the whole state! So WyTex not sure if your part time or a transplant from Texas but this is Wyoming.

The reason there is BLM and national forest is because it never got homesteaded. It was marginal. Takes a lot of acres for a cow calf pair and not suitable for any kind of row crops. Where hay can be cut, water is available, crops can be grown, cattle grazed in numbers, is what became deeded property. Its why antler hunters pay so much to hunt it.

Your right on that Mr. Cliffton, the water was the first and most important thing a homesteader looked for was good available and plenty of water. The game and fish is in the process this year of mapping critical wildlife habitat. They are using everything from first hand knowledge of biologist and guess what ranchers and farmers and even satellite imaging. The first overlay of the map was water, guess where most of the water is located, private land. Rule of thumb in Wyoming is if its got water on it, its usually private and wildlife needs the water, the shrubs and trees for food and protection. The hay and crops that ranchers and farmers grow is not only food but hiding and nesting cover. Wyoming would be a whole different state for wildlife without ranching and farming. Yes the antelope were always here because of oceans of sagebrush but the deer and elk were few compared to what we now have. Even the bison were few in most of Wy. they were in the Dakotas, Mt. Kansas, and other states that had abundant grass and water. Wy. is a high plains desert and rough place to make a living for most wildlife.

danvee I live in Laramie and have for 35 years, yes a transplant and I work part time on a ranch with my husband.
Been watching that wildlife for 35 years now.
Elk are over objective in our area, yes over objective.
Wildlife winters here on both public and private.
Read the parts of the paper I posted about winter range percentages, that is what I mentioned that is wrong in your post. Not all wildlife winters on private and you agreed.
Yes migrations changed this year due to vast areas of deep snow.
Do you think they will stay there or go back to historical ranges next year or so?

I don't need a lesson on ranching and farming, we are currently getting ready for hay irrigation. We have to manage our water for the growing season.

SE Wyoming was not decimated this winter, not by far. Our mule deer are showing close to 80% fawn survival, pronghorn look good right now but yes numbers are down from years past.
Mule deer numbers have been down for years now, we are in the CWD high prevalence area near Sybille, but we take 6+ yr old bucks almost every year now.
Too many elk and that is widely known and an issue due to private lands and not enough hunting allowed.

Hunting in areas that are not affected by this harsh winter will not affect animals across the state. If we allow range to get over used by wildlife then we are open to another bad winter regardless of snow depth, no forage.
I will not feel guilty for hunting populations that are not in peril.
If I lived on the Western side then yes I would take pause and rethink my apps and hunting for Fall.
The sky is not falling all over the state, but it is in some areas.
Outlook for our area is good right now, range is greening up nicely but we need a wet summer.

Nothing personal, good conversation actually.
We all need to take pause and think about our plans for Fall, not advocating for just going to hunt and forgetting about the animals, but there are areas doing ok.
We have had very little winterkill and less roadkill actually than last year on the roads we travel regularly.
Water is everywhere right now and I hope you all don't have flooding issues this year.
It may be a bad high water damage year for many folks.

All I know is my cousin who has lived in Riverton since 2008 says the deer , elk , and antelope are nearly wiped out in his area

FWIW I have cut the lock off more than one gate when it was a county rd going through deeded property. Have cut locks off blm roads too. Have taken down more than one sign posting blm as private no trespassing.

You may pay to graze BLM but its a subsidy. Check what per head cost is to graze deeded ground. Dont pretend that being subsidized provides you rights to special treatment. The couple living on ADC food stamps medicare and section 8 housing think they are entitled too.

Unfortunately, wildlife regs are about the money also. Game depts need to sell license's or there is no allocation for their salaries.

Montana is one of the worst states for land locking public land. Montana has millions of public land locked to the public because they can with their private land. Montana is the worst out there.

If its legal its legal. But locking gates on county roads, locking BLM gates, posting public land is not. Have seen that in CO WY and NM all three and ranchers NEVER get a ticket for it. I quit calling.

Have several times had a rancher ask me to tell him when I am trapping his grass lease. Thats a courtesy I have no problem with. often they are using a dog but its not uncommon to need to remind someone its not deeded property.

Spot on with your comparison Danny. Unfortunately, many are not aware this is how it is done in many areas.

Danny what were you paying blm to run your commercial trapping operation on public land? Not as much as the grazers.

https://wyofile.com/mule-deer-death-rates-deepen-in-western-wyoming/

The project affixed 330 GPS collars onto 200 does, 100 fawns and 30 bucks from five focal mule deer herds: the Wyoming Range, North Bighorn, Upper Shoshone, Sweetwater and Laramie Mountains herds.

Hall said. “We have pretty concerning survival numbers from the western part of the state — particularly the Wyoming Range — but we see notably different trends in areas that have experienced a different version of the winter.”

winter mule deer mortality rates are much less dire statewide.

Pockets of death

Combining numbers from the five focal herds, statewide survival rates on April 13 registered at 75% for does, 78% among bucks and 61% for fawns.

Northern Wyoming herds — North Bighorn and Upper Shoshone mule deer — have fared the best, with more than 90% survival of does, the reproductive engine of herds that are most important to populations. In the Sweetwater Herd, which dwells in central Wyoming’s Granite and Green mountains, doe survival was 86%. In the Laramie Mountains, some 81% of marked does remained alive.


The Wyoming Game and Fish Department updated its fall 2023 hunting season proposals for Wyoming Range deer in winter’s wake. In the Wyoming and Salt River ranges and beyond in western Wyoming, mule deer rifle hunters will have a one-week shorter season. State officials are also planning to implement a new antler point restriction, requiring that any mule deer harvested have three points or more on either antler. Last, youth hunts have been altered to exclude does and fawns.

Corner Crossings:

https://wyofile.com/elk-mountain-ranch-owner-we-should-have-control-of-corner-crossing/

https://wyofile.com/corner-crossing/

https://wyofile.com/rare-inverted-snowpack-magnified-winters-heavy-toll-on-wildlife/

"Inverted" Snowpack. Deepr in the low country winter grounds this year they say

I dont pay to trap private ground either dirt. If anybody gets paid when I trap its me. you might want to consider who gets to graze and who gets totrap. BLM trapping is open to the public. There is no free grazing anymore so government picks who gets that cheap pasture.

Hunting, trapping and trespassing rights come with grazing rights. Changing that should be a priority imo.

Anyone can hunt or trap public land but your not allowed to cross private land to do so. No different than someone driving through you property to get to the neighbors. As far as what the winter kill is in Wyoming the game and fish sets the seasons and quota who hunts on private is up to the landowner. As I said before numerous ranches are closing hunting on there property to help wildlife recover. I have given up trapping do to age for the most part I will always do some. I have 2 individuals that have trapped for year on my places and I will still allow access for that.

Colorado Parks and Wildlife just published the "Colorado Wolf Restoration and Management plan", it's the draft, but almost certainly will be approved. It only provides for lethal management if a wolf is caught in the act of depredation.

I believe the real goal is to stop hunting. Enough wolves and there is no surplus of deer and elk.

You got that right.

And then there is no need to own guns! That's the plan.