there were 7 million when Obama was elected to term 1, 14 million at re-election, way more now my guess is 30-40 million with all the newer companies climbing on the black rifle bandwagon.

if they don't perceive Jim as a leftist, it mis be a North Korean site is my guess.

Liberals don’t care about facts, logic or the end results they care about a single focused “this is what I feel and want and I want it right now no matter what.” I’d ask those other writers what they think of the new waves of attacks on the first amendment when loons are being put in charge of what’s the “truth” today by a government standard.

Maybe if they understand that view of how the first is being attacked often they could apply that to the second then.

Attacking "liberals" is not how you win the debate. Simply insulting an opponent is, in fact, the quickest way to lose a debate.

They think, feel, whatever that they are using facts and reason too (not all are facts and not all positions are based on reason).

Fact: Blaine County has never killed anyone using an AR-15/AR-10.

Fact: The psycho in Maine killed 18 people using an AR-10.

Both are equally true facts.

We need a better way of discussing the issue but it's hard because criminals/psychos keep shooting up schools, restaurants, concerts, parades, etc. This gives the gun grabbers more "facts."

We are however likely past persuading anyone and at this point it's about slowing down the inevitable by winning elections. Once the inevitable happens, I expect a conflict.

140,000 alcohol related deaths per year in the US ( far more than gun related deaths) - ask them if they support bringing back prohibition in the interest of savings lives. Liberals like their alcohol like everyone else and they hate the question. Then ask why they aren' t prepared to give up their beer and wine (even though they are responsible drinkers) to possibly keep some idiot from getting behind the wheel drunk and killing someone or drinking themselves to death.
Several parallel arguments to their gun rants...

its pointless to argue with people whose fear prevents them from embracing freedoms

What side will bring up the fact that the military and law enforcement both were notified of this guy and did nothing what new law will fix that? Asking for a friend. It’s not the facts used often it’s the ones being left out that make it a problem. If you can’t see this your part of the problem maybe what world do you live in?

I had trouble following your post, but as for your first question: both sides will bring it up. The gun grabbers will use it to support red flag laws and to say that something more than red flag laws (e.g. a ban) is needed. The 2A side will use it to demonstrate the guy was crazy and not representative of 99.9% of gun owners. True. Be careful though, it's potentially a red flag trap.

The issue with red flag laws is there is no real mental health system out there most people are back out in 72 hours with so many broken systems that don’t work gun control will fix nothing we know the current laws are not being followed as it is.

Your opponents argue that an AR-15 is a "military style weapon?"

Perhaps ask them to give an example or two of nations that arm their military with AR-15's...?

But do not delude yourself into thinking that FACTS have anything to do with this argument!

Pete

If their a feminist or BLM type their extremely easy to argue against lol

why does it work when liberals attack conservatives???

I’ve never seen a mugshot of just the gun, nor do I know of any gun convicted and spending time in jail or prison.

Osky

Statistics from the PEW research center

PEW research gun statistics

Here's a summation;

Of the 48,830 gun related deaths in 2021

3% are listed as other (accidental, police involved)
54% are suicides (26,328)
43% are murders (20,958)
of those 20,958 only 3% (838) involved "long guns" rifles, shotguns, AR's.
handguns account for nearly 95% (19,910)

Have those attacks persuaded you? I bet not.

Cutting down, name calling, etc. is not how you win a debate. Or an election.

'What Freeman didn’t bring up was the effectiveness (or lack thereof) of the
government’s Federal Assault Weapons Ban. Nearly two decades ago the Department of Justice funded a study to analyze this very topic, and it concluded that the assault weapon prohibition had “mixed” results.

Researchers noted there was a decline in crimes committed with firearms classified as assault weapons, but noted “the decline in AW use was offset throughout at least the late 1990s by steady or rising use of other guns.”

In other words, there was a decline in crimes committed with firearms that were banned, but the drop was replaced by crimes committed with other types of firearms that were not banned.

While gun violence overall fell in the US during this period—just like many other countries around the world—the decline continued even after the Federal Assault Weapons Ban ended in 2004. Authors of the government-funded study plainly stated “we cannot clearly credit the ban with any of the nation’s recent drop in gun violence” and any future reduction in gun violence as a result of the ban was likely “to be small at best and perhaps too small for reliable measurement.”

If history has taught us anything, it’s that the impulse to use collective force to “do something” in the wake of a tragedy or crisis has created far more problems than it has solved.

“When [crises occur] … governments almost certainly will gain new powers over economic and social affairs,” wrote Higgs. “For those who cherish individual liberty and a free society, the prospect is deeply disheartening.”"

Source: Fee.org

These are useful statistics for the debate.

Suicide is tragic, but if they didn't have a firearm they would use a rope.

the goal should NOT be to convince an "anti" to become a "pro activist" (i.e. ardent gunowner); but rather to sway the "undecided" in the middle; who are watching the debate.

and, you are wrong about not winning elections with negative tactics. Those expensive commercials are so prevalent because they DO work!

hey, I WISH "reason" and "logic" worked with the general public. but as my dad used to say "[crap] in one hand and wish on the other, and see which hand gets fuller."

James i'd say with social media nowdays its impossible to get thru to someone with their nose glued to their phone inundated with "Todays" crisis Consider the Abortion war of 2022 voting public didn't care that the Supreme court just moved it from federal to the state level and that was the deciding factor in a lot of voting especially with a catchy phrase to howl out