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Building Soil #7983562
10/31/23 06:41 AM
10/31/23 06:41 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,991
Wisconsin
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Eagleye Offline OP
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Wisconsin
Planning some spring food plots. I would be interested to hear on plantings that help build the highest level of organic matter. Based on WIMarshRat’s previous posts on Buckwheat- that’s on my list, it seems like a good choice. I understand it may take several years to impact the soil substrate but I’m interested in starting. Hoping Bryce and others share their thoughts. Are there other varieties that should be considered to enhance feed the fields and not the deer?

Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #7983635
10/31/23 07:58 AM
10/31/23 07:58 AM
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Posts: 610
WV
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garymc Offline
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WV
When I first started food plots, I had a log landing that was the perfect food plot location. It was completely void of vegetation with a fair bit of clay. I started in late May with buckwheat, lime, and fertilizer. It grew but was not a complete success yet not a failure either. In late august I tilled it under and planted a wheat/rye mix along with more lime and fertilizer it turned into a pretty decent fall/winter plot. The following May I tilled the wheat/rye under and planted buckwheat again. There was a definite difference in the second buckwheat plot. In late august I planted a wheat/rye mix along with Durana clover. It grew well the deer liked it. The next spring I mowed the wheat/rye as soon as it started to seed and was left with a nice clover plot.
The buckwheat, wheat, and rye will pretty much grow on a rock, but as conditions get better it grows better

Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #7983645
10/31/23 08:10 AM
10/31/23 08:10 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,991
Wisconsin
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Eagleye Offline OP
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Gary- thanks this is exactly the same application, I have two landing areas that are marginal and I need to improve. With the Buckwheat can I plant it twice in one growing season? My thought process is to terminate it before it seeds out.

Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #7983653
10/31/23 08:23 AM
10/31/23 08:23 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 36,267
Central, SD
Law Dog Offline
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My grandparents grew an organic truck garden in sand in the UP so it showed me with the right soil mixture you can grow about anything. I went with the soil testing route to cut the learning curve by finding the right balance sooner.


Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!

Jerry Herbst
Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #7983654
10/31/23 08:24 AM
10/31/23 08:24 AM
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WV
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WV
I guess you could try for two crops if you crowded up against your last frost date in the spring and the soil temp was up. Plant then as it went to flower terminate and plant again. It might run you close in getting a fall plot like wheat/rye established. The buckwheat won’t tolerate a frost whereas the wheat/rye would carry through winter

When I let the buckwheat go to seed I ended up with a small volunteer crop of buckwheat in my wheat/rye but the volunteers would die with the frost.

My rehabilitated log landing is one of my most productive plots in terms of growth now.

I so miss the days of $0.30 a pound buckwheat and don’t plant it as much now

Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #7983661
10/31/23 08:31 AM
10/31/23 08:31 AM
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Posts: 492
Alabama
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KB64 Offline
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Alabama
First step is to get a complete soil test. You're looking for more than just pH and N,P & K. Your soil's CEC will tell you what you have to work with and how to proceed. Then your Base Saturation % will tell you where you stand on fertility. CEC < 10 you have a really sandy soil and will need to add smaller amounts of fertilizer more frequently. CEC> 20 and you're getting onto clay soils where your Calcium base saturation is going to be important. You want calcium >60% and up to 80%. K should be between 4-7%.

Organic matter increases are greatly enhanced by limiting tillage and planting diverse mixes that produce a lot of root mass. Daikon radish, cereal rye and annual clovers are a good fall mix. Vetch is another good additive. Buckwheat is good because it's a short lived annual that can be double cropped. You can mix in grasses like millet or a forage sorghum like Sudan-Sorghum. A lot of people are big into using a crimper to terminate these crops and planting into the residue. Timing is critical, you have to time it right to get it to crimp or it will stand back up with crops like rye. I think a better option is a flail mower that will chop the residue into smaller pieces and not wind row like a rotary cutter.

Be aware that planting into a heavy mat of residue from the previous crop is going to pull a lot of nitrogen out of the system as it breaks down. This is where a good foliar fertilizer program will help the crop overcome this nitrogen sink.

Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #7983670
10/31/23 08:55 AM
10/31/23 08:55 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 931
Georgia
sportsman94 Offline
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Georgia
As KB said, diversity is important. Make or buy a mix that includes at a minimum a broadleaf, a grass, and a legume. Something with different heights as well. From what I understand running livestock through it is best case scenario, but then that competes with the desire to do it for wildlife.

All this depends on your deer density though. I cant get anything to grow in the warm season on almost 2.5 acres besides sorghum or millet that the deer dont fool with.

Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #7983698
10/31/23 09:39 AM
10/31/23 09:39 AM
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Posts: 3,991
Wisconsin
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Eagleye Offline OP
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These two areas are new and soil sampling is on the horizon- possibly this week. In my other kill plots my main focus has been establishing proper pH levels first but I have better soil conditions in those locations.

Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #7983707
10/31/23 09:53 AM
10/31/23 09:53 AM
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St. Louis Co, Mo
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BigBob Offline
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St. Louis Co, Mo
Pick your spot and get the soil PH checked. Most wood soil is very acid, Ag Lime and or wood ash will cure that.


Every kid needs a Dog and a Curmudgeon.

Remember Bowe Bergdahl, the traitor.

Beware! Jill Pudlewski, Ron Oates and Keven Begesse are liars and thiefs!
Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #7983739
10/31/23 10:24 AM
10/31/23 10:24 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 12,290
Oregon
beaverpeeler Offline
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Oregon
Already sone good info here. To increase organic matter content as quickly as possible you need to grow a lot of biomass. Buckwheat can be a good summer cover crop but I think there are others that actually produce more biomass during the same time period. Sudan grass being one to look at. I would look at mixing species like crimson clover, phacelia and others. Those also help the pollinizers in your area.


My fear of moving stairs is escalating!
Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #7983825
10/31/23 01:17 PM
10/31/23 01:17 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 36,267
Central, SD
Law Dog Offline
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Central, SD
I loaded the garden lime I had in my shed today to go to MO soon I noticed it had calcium and magnesium ratios in it was that added or just the normal blend when you have any lime? The stuff is the consistency of talc powder almost like dust.


[Linked Image]

Last edited by Law Dog; 10/31/23 01:23 PM.

Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!

Jerry Herbst
Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #7983833
10/31/23 01:41 PM
10/31/23 01:41 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,991
Wisconsin
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Eagleye Offline OP
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Far from an expert but I though dolomitic lime contains magnesium?

Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #7983842
10/31/23 01:55 PM
10/31/23 01:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 492
Alabama
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KB64 Offline
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Alabama
Originally Posted by Eagleye
Far from an expert but I though dolomitic lime contains magnesium?


Yes, dolomitic lime contains magnesium. The 22 and 12% are pretty typical. One thing to remember, Mg raises pH at 1.6 times what calcium does. Calcium improves drainage where magnesium slows permeability. So if you have a sandy soil you want a base saturation Mg around 15-20% and Ca around 60-65%. In heavy clay you want the calcium 65% and higher with Mg around 10-12%.

Last edited by KB64; 10/31/23 01:56 PM.
Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #7983850
10/31/23 02:05 PM
10/31/23 02:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,340
B61-12 vicinity, MO
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TreedaBlackdog Offline
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Highest levels of organic building materials are those that produce the most carbon. Tonnage of material grown on top. For example corn residue is much more than soybean residue. For building carbon - plants that develop the most on top of soil build up the soil most when allowed to decompose as they also have better root systems. Organic matter can be increased by also bringing in carbon like compost, wood chips, straw, manures etc......growing your own carbon takes time to increase organic matter but it can be done. Goal should be to never have bare soil - of course every tillage pass etc you do also speeds up carbon breakdown and loss. Highest level of organic matter are found in systems closely patterning after native diverse prairies with livestock incorporated.
While in North Dakota the NRCS and producers were examining this intensively and without livestock the soil health would kind of plateau - livestock brought in healthy bacterias and organisms that aided in the ability to break down the carbon and increase organic matters quicker.

Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #7983853
10/31/23 02:17 PM
10/31/23 02:17 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,991
Wisconsin
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Eagleye Offline OP
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I’m going to hit my wife up for a herd of Buffalo grin

Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #7983860
10/31/23 02:47 PM
10/31/23 02:47 PM
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Posts: 1,083
Eastern Shore, MD
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JoMiBru Offline
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Eastern Shore, MD
Great information here. As a farmer and deer hunter, some good topics have already been nailed by Gary, treed, and KB.

Soil test is very important, and follow the recommendations. I like a good mix for both soil health and a good food plot. You’ll want a legume , a brassica, and a cereal grain. The legume will fix nitrogen in the soil. The brassica will send a tap root to help with compaction. The cereal grain will provide grazing and take pressure off the legume until they establish.

Legumes- Clover, alfalfa, peas, beans
Brassica- radish, turnip, rape, kale
Cereal grains- wheat, buckwheat, Oats, rye

In your application, I would use buckwheat, rape ( dwarf Essex) , and frosty Berseem Clover. Mix some daikon radish in there if compaction is a big issue, that’s got a big tap root.

John

Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #7983864
10/31/23 03:02 PM
10/31/23 03:02 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 36,267
Central, SD
Law Dog Offline
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Originally Posted by Eagleye
Far from an expert but I though dolomitic lime contains magnesium?



Yes it says lawn and garden lime on the bags but contains magnesium I have 200 pounds of it.


Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!

Jerry Herbst
Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #7983870
10/31/23 03:14 PM
10/31/23 03:14 PM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 11,262
Indiana
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Providence Farm Offline
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Indiana
Originally Posted by Eagleye
Gary- thanks this is exactly the same application, I have two landing areas that are marginal and I need to improve. With the Buckwheat can I plant it twice in one growing season? My thought process is to terminate it before it seeds out.


I plant buckwheat for my bees, I stager plant it every two weeks or so I till another section and plant again. I get blooms the entire Darth that way.

Deer hit it , infact my neibors wife asked her husband if I had mowed it off the deer did such a good job on it that time. I had a place with old tractor ruts I tilled a bunch an got it eveled out. I didn't want the bare dirt so planted that spot with buckwheat. It flowers in about 6 weeks.

My fields are generally healthy so didn't notice improvements ther but building organic material is always a plus.

Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #8117964
04/08/24 10:46 PM
04/08/24 10:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 10,307
WI - Wisconsin
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AJE Offline
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I bought this pH tester the other day at Ace. I'm not sure how good it is. They had a moisture meter I thought about buying too but it looked pretty poor quality.

[Linked Image]

With planting season approaching, it might be nice to know soil temperatures too

Last edited by AJE; 04/08/24 10:46 PM.
Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #8118746
04/10/24 06:52 AM
04/10/24 06:52 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,209
So. IL
pintail_drake04 Offline
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So. IL
I'm a big fan of cover crops. I don't like to keep land fallow. I alternate between brassicas, rye, and clover. The literal tonnage produced in an "off season" between plantings can be astounding. This in addition to the application of compost has been a huge help.

Re: Building Soil [Re: garymc] #8118751
04/10/24 06:56 AM
04/10/24 06:56 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 67,117
Minnesota
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Originally Posted by garymc
When I first started food plots, I had a log landing that was the perfect food plot location. It was completely void of vegetation with a fair bit of clay. I started in late May with buckwheat, lime, and fertilizer. It grew but was not a complete success yet not a failure either. In late august I tilled it under and planted a wheat/rye mix along with more lime and fertilizer it turned into a pretty decent fall/winter plot. The following May I tilled the wheat/rye under and planted buckwheat again. There was a definite difference in the second buckwheat plot. In late august I planted a wheat/rye mix along with Durana clover. It grew well the deer liked it. The next spring I mowed the wheat/rye as soon as it started to seed and was left with a nice clover plot.
The buckwheat, wheat, and rye will pretty much grow on a rock, but as conditions get better it grows better

Interesting


NRA and NTA Life Member
www.BackroadsRevised@etsy.com




Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #8118791
04/10/24 08:15 AM
04/10/24 08:15 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 15,079
Greene County,Virginia
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run Offline
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I love lime. Just use whatever lime is readily available close to home. Just adding my worthless 2 cents to the pile.


wanna be goat farmer.
Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #8118796
04/10/24 08:22 AM
04/10/24 08:22 AM
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Wi.
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Diggerman Offline
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Gypsum, Its magic!

Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #8118846
04/10/24 09:48 AM
04/10/24 09:48 AM
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Georgia
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Georgia
I have completely renewed my pasture and garden.

When I moved to my current place ten years ago, the pastures were grown up almost to my head. It was full of briars, small trees, broomstraw, dogfennel, etc.

I bushhogged the entire piece and had the property limed. I contacted tree servers and took all the woodchips i could get. I let those chips compost for a year or two and began spreading them around thick in rough areas of the property.

I raised chickens, ducks, geese, turkeys, etc. in mobile coops and allowed them to work and fertilize the ground. The birds helped out a ton and I could see results quickly.

I also plant crimson clover every fall and don't mow anything until after it has seeded out and died back. I also plant daikon/tillage radish.

I have seen where folks will bring it round bales of hay and lay that thick over rough areas, but my woodchips are free and have worked wonders.

Good luck!



[Linked Image]
Re: Building Soil [Re: GaTurkeyHunter] #8118893
04/10/24 11:09 AM
04/10/24 11:09 AM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,999
MN
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Donnersurvivor Offline
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MN
Originally Posted by GaTurkeyHunter
I have completely renewed my pasture and garden.

When I moved to my current place ten years ago, the pastures were grown up almost to my head. It was full of briars, small trees, broomstraw, dogfennel, etc.

I bushhogged the entire piece and had the property limed. I contacted tree servers and took all the woodchips i could get. I let those chips compost for a year or two and began spreading them around thick in rough areas of the property.

I raised chickens, ducks, geese, turkeys, etc. in mobile coops and allowed them to work and fertilize the ground. The birds helped out a ton and I could see results quickly.

I also plant crimson clover every fall and don't mow anything until after it has seeded out and died back. I also plant daikon/tillage radish.

I have seen where folks will bring it round bales of hay and lay that thick over rough areas, but my woodchips are free and have worked wonders.

Good luck!


This is more less what I'm doing now to my property. The wood chips really only work if you have Nitrogen, thats where your chickens really paid off. Currently Chicken manure is worth around $50 a Ton and a Ton goes a long ways. If you have any poultry farmers in the area that sell manure that would be my first stop after the soil test.

If you put wood chips down without added Nitrogen be prepared for the chips to lock most of your available Nitrogen up until they decompose. I'm going to mix chips with manure, let that compost then spread it.

Re: Building Soil [Re: Donnersurvivor] #8118906
04/10/24 11:34 AM
04/10/24 11:34 AM
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East-Central Wisconsin
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Do you have a farmer near you with stall barn or bed pack manure. If so and he would be willing to sell it and apply it I would put say 20 to 30 tons per acre on this spring or summer and work it in. If you don't have equipment that can work in that much put less on. You will build OM faster that way and you will get NP and K as well. During the summer the bugs, worms and bacteria will break up the OM when the soil is warm. You can then start with any and all of the crops mentioned. They all build OM but some better than others but I nice load of manure is a good way to kick start your program. Manure is an interesting substance, it losens clay and helps bind sand, you want high levels of OM in your soils as it holds nutrients and also helps hold water.

Bryce

Last edited by bblwi; 04/10/24 03:21 PM.
Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #8119345
04/11/24 06:52 AM
04/11/24 06:52 AM
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Georgia
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Georgia
I would be weary of using cow/horse manure. I've heard that a lot of the hay that the animals feed on was treated with GrazeOn and other chemicals during the growth cycle. I guess the chemical doesn't cause the animal issues, but it is passed to the manure and when that is spread to gardens or other areas where broadleafs grow, they will die.



[Linked Image]
Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #8119372
04/11/24 07:51 AM
04/11/24 07:51 AM
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Wisconsin
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Guss Offline
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And don't spread cow poop on the garden you get weeds. Best to use horse.

Re: Building Soil [Re: Guss] #8119409
04/11/24 08:52 AM
04/11/24 08:52 AM
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East-Central Wisconsin
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Farmers in WI raise lot of broadleaf plants and spread lots of manure with no broadleaf plant deaths. Yes manure has weeds but there are more weedseeds laying in the foodplot area already so the extras are not going to be a major factor. Also plants like winter rye etc. are weed retardent plants. If manure is not available that is fine, just anticipate building OM with plants with 2-4 ton of dry matter per crop will take a long, long time to raise if OM is low.
Also if you plant several crops per year to have divsersity and do tillage, tillage breaks down OM faster and you lose more than if you can no-till.
I hope your soils are better, here were I live we have a lot of red clay with OM levels less then 2, basically a mineral type soil.
Bryce

Re: Building Soil [Re: bblwi] #8120696
04/12/24 11:37 PM
04/12/24 11:37 PM
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WI - Wisconsin
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Originally Posted by bblwi

I hope your soils are better, here were I live we have a lot of red clay with OM levels less then 2, basically a mineral type soil.
Bryce

Not much clay here

Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #8120723
04/13/24 04:21 AM
04/13/24 04:21 AM
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NH
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NH
Guss, you got tht backwards.

Re: Building Soil [Re: bblwi] #8122167
04/15/24 10:37 AM
04/15/24 10:37 AM
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Greene County,Virginia
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run Offline
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Originally Posted by bblwi
Farmers in WI raise lot of broadleaf plants and spread lots of manure with no broadleaf plant deaths. Yes manure has weeds but there are more weedseeds laying in the foodplot area already so the extras are not going to be a major factor. Also plants like winter rye etc. are weed retardent plants. If manure is not available that is fine, just anticipate building OM with plants with 2-4 ton of dry matter per crop will take a long, long time to raise if OM is low.
Also if you plant several crops per year to have divsersity and do tillage, tillage breaks down OM faster and you lose more than if you can no-till.
I hope your soils are better, here were I live we have a lot of red clay with OM levels less then 2, basically a mineral type soil.
Bryce

Thank you for the explanation, Bryce!

Last edited by run; 04/15/24 10:37 AM.

wanna be goat farmer.
Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #8122188
04/15/24 11:17 AM
04/15/24 11:17 AM
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Posts: 969
NW Oklahoma
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Okie Farmer Offline
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NW Oklahoma
Hybrid sorghum Sudan will make a lot of organic material especially if you can mow it a couple of times during the summer.

Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #8122230
04/15/24 12:24 PM
04/15/24 12:24 PM
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Posts: 5,604
MD
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DaveP Offline
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LOL, JUST finished spreading manure, THICK.

Have terrible soil here, been working on it 30 years.

Best thing I ever did was hogs. Moved pen a little every other year.
Went from 1" of soil to 6-10".

At least made some decent garden patches.

Below is a link to the aptly named Extreme Composting thread.
Watched this guy get going in real.time, it's insane.
100s of tons. Per year....

https://www.homesteadingtoday.com/threads/extreme-composting.342651/

Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #8122238
04/15/24 12:31 PM
04/15/24 12:31 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 12,290
Oregon
beaverpeeler Offline
trapper
beaverpeeler  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 12,290
Oregon
There is another neat twist to build up garden soil organic matter content and kill pathogens at the same time. It is accomplished by adding a whopping 12" or more of chopped green manure and some nitrogen working it in to the ground, watering and then covering with a thin layer of clear polyplastic sheeting tightly. The soil microbes quickly use up all the oxygen creating an anaerobic condition in the top 8-10" of soil. Over the course of several weeks soil borne pathogens (that may have been a burr under your saddle for years) are reduced to near zero since they cannot survive without oxygen.

You will be amazed at how well all your garden veggies and fruits do after this treatment.


My fear of moving stairs is escalating!
Re: Building Soil [Re: beaverpeeler] #8122310
04/15/24 02:58 PM
04/15/24 02:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,604
MD
D
DaveP Offline
trapper
DaveP  Offline
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D

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,604
MD
Originally Posted by beaverpeeler
There is another neat twist to build up garden soil organic matter content and kill pathogens at the same time. It is accomplished by adding a whopping 12" or more of chopped green manure and some nitrogen working it in to the ground, watering and then covering with a thin layer of clear polyplastic sheeting tightly. The soil microbes quickly use up all the oxygen creating an anaerobic condition in the top 8-10" of soil. Over the course of several weeks soil borne pathogens (that may have been a burr under your saddle for years) are reduced to near zero since they cannot survive without oxygen.

You will be amazed at how well all your garden veggies and fruits do after this treatment.




I might have to.look.into this, thanks

Re: Building Soil [Re: KB64] #8218020
09/17/24 08:37 PM
09/17/24 08:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 10,307
WI - Wisconsin
A
AJE Offline
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AJE  Offline
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Posts: 10,307
WI - Wisconsin
Originally Posted by KB64


Organic matter increases are greatly enhanced by limiting tillage and planting diverse mixes that produce a lot of root mass. Daikon radish, cereal rye and annual clovers are a good fall mix. Vetch is another good additive. Buckwheat is good because it's a short lived annual that can be double cropped. You can mix in grasses like millet or a forage sorghum like Sudan-Sorghum. A lot of people are big into using a crimper to terminate these crops and planting into the residue. Timing is critical..

Make sure it's not invasive vetch. I sprayed the vetch in my ditch tonight. I'm not sure what kind it is but I think I have the bad vetch. I think this is what I have:

https://dnr.wisconsin.gov/topic/Invasives/fact/CrownVetch

Last edited by AJE; 09/17/24 08:41 PM.
Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #8218048
09/17/24 09:09 PM
09/17/24 09:09 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,396
Mt.
g smith Offline
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g smith  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,396
Mt.
Some educated folks here ,good stuff .


You can ride a fast horse slow but you can't ride a slow horse fast .
Re: Building Soil [Re: AJE] #8218052
09/17/24 09:13 PM
09/17/24 09:13 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,944
ohio
Ohio Wolverine Offline
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Ohio Wolverine  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,944
ohio
Originally Posted by AJE
Originally Posted by KB64


Organic matter increases are greatly enhanced by limiting tillage and planting diverse mixes that produce a lot of root mass. Daikon radish, cereal rye and annual clovers are a good fall mix. Vetch is another good additive. Buckwheat is good because it's a short lived annual that can be double cropped. You can mix in grasses like millet or a forage sorghum like Sudan-Sorghum. A lot of people are big into using a crimper to terminate these crops and planting into the residue. Timing is critical..

Make sure it's not invasive vetch. I sprayed the vetch in my ditch tonight. I'm not sure what kind it is but I think I have the bad vetch. I think this is what I have:

https://dnr.wisconsin.gov/topic/Invasives/fact/CrownVetch


While doing landscaping , one customer wanted Crown Vetch , only time I saw it other than some that grew wild in spots.
It was planted above her new pond, as a filter to slow the pond from filling with run off.
That was almost 60 years ago, and never knew how it worked , or what it did.


We have met the enemy and the enemy is us!
Re: Building Soil [Re: Ohio Wolverine] #8218083
09/17/24 10:15 PM
09/17/24 10:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 12,056
East-Central Wisconsin
B
bblwi Offline
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bblwi  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 12,056
East-Central Wisconsin
How to add organic matter to soil
use crop residues - chop and leave straw and not just crop roots or stubbles.
grow a cover crop or use green manures to feed the soil.
sow a mixed cover of deep-rooting grasses and herbs, which is particularly effective in compacted soil.

Many have mentioned their preferred crops, Legumes are the best, then grasses or mixes that do not need or require tillage. It will take good management and a good plan to plant crops you want for food for wildlife and enhance your soil, nutrients and OM. Clovers will do better than alfafa in your soil types unless you get the ph up over 6.5. One of the nice things about legumes like alfalfa is when they do into dormancy and freeze they stand up and don't wilt down like grass. There is quite a bit of decent winter feed there even in the snow for deer and other animals eating vegetation.
Using crops that grow a lot of root mass works well for OM increase and also a mix of shallow and deep rooting.
Bryce

Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #8218171
09/18/24 06:07 AM
09/18/24 06:07 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,991
Wisconsin
E
Eagleye Offline OP
trapper
Eagleye  Offline OP
trapper
E

Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,991
Wisconsin
The mix I planted this spring was Smart Cover from Grandpa Ray Outdoors:
Spring Triticale
Oats
Buckwheat
Forage Peas
Crimson Clover
Berseem Clover
It’s formulated to build OM snd will handle a variety of soils and lower pH.

Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #8218178
09/18/24 06:34 AM
09/18/24 06:34 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 8,592
western mn
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bucksnbears Offline
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western mn
Looks like a great combo EE.


swampgas chili and schmidt beer makes for a deadly combo

You have to remember that 1 out of 3 Democratic Voters is just as dumb as the other two.
Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #8218190
09/18/24 06:53 AM
09/18/24 06:53 AM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 896
NE NE
W
Wife Offline
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Wife  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 896
NE NE
You got plenty of "advice" on what to plant so I won't add but really if you are interested in increasing soil health and productivity do two things - lose the plow and/or disc - get a shredder to chew up your crop in the spring and rent or buy a drill period!!!!!!. Your crop needs to be laid on the surface for 3-5 years before you see any soil bounce (NO TILLAGE). Deeper root systems will bring what nutrients the soil has up to the surface and eliminating the tillage will slow the decomposition and volatilization of the carbon and nitrogen. Slowly the soil will improve to its max,,,, then you can get an accurate soil test and put and apply any additives you are missing. Get into a rotation and DO NOT BE HESITANT to use a herbicide if needed. I have helped a lot of folks with their CRP food plots (worked 34 years at USDA) and have No-Tilled my gardens for 20 years. Keeping last years crop on the surface and drilling a new - different - crop into the residue will pay dividends down the road. First years are not pretty but the science shows up around year 3-5. Try a grass/legume mix like 2 years of some type of clover and 1 year of corn, or millet, or sorghum, or annual rye etc.,,,,, whatever will work in your growing area. A mineral block from the local farm store will always help too if harvesting a deer or two is the objective. My experience. ...............the mike

Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #8218193
09/18/24 07:07 AM
09/18/24 07:07 AM
Joined: May 2023
Posts: 837
Virginia
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GUNNLEG Offline
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Virginia
Lots of good info. I dedicate my plots to building soil after turkey season in the Spring right into Fall planting for deer. I generally have clovers left over and can do a no till broadcasting of buckwheat and millet for the summer. I also make any adjustments for pH during the Spring.

Here's where I need help. I don't have a no till planter for my brassicas in the Fall. I've tried sowing over the leftover debris from the Summer planting (I've tried both laying it down by cultipacking and by cutting it up fine with a finishing mower). I've had success with broadcasting cereal grains on top of the debris, but not with any brassicas or clover. Seems like maybe I'm not getting good soil to seed contact or the debris is just to thick for smaller seeds to get up high enough before they die?? Based on this, I always revert back to lightling discing because I KNOW that my plot will come up.

Any suggestions on how I can ensure a better Fall plot with small seed and not discing would be appreciated. Other than finding a drill or always just sowing cereal grains?

Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #8218194
09/18/24 07:09 AM
09/18/24 07:09 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 36,267
Central, SD
Law Dog Offline
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Central, SD
The food plots we have been working on in MO have exceeded our expectations for being more gravel than soil, the weekly rains were a big help in its success being the first year. The clover has done well some of the grass has greened up then died off. Getting the soil tested was a big help in meeting the plants needs.

Its definitely a big draw and a needed destination point compared to the past free ranging they did kind of Willy Nilly or heading to other green grass areas off the property. Not a big buck area but it’s drawing in more bucks then we ever had on camera in the past some bigger than before.

Unfortunately the adjoining property sold to a shoot every round, blow up some tannerite and walk through people food plots kind of guy so we will see how that plays out.


Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!

Jerry Herbst
Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #8218414
09/18/24 01:39 PM
09/18/24 01:39 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,939
WI
WIMarshRAT Offline
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WIMarshRAT  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,939
WI
Christine Jones did a youtube video on building soil and soil health. It is one of my favorites. It talks about the liquid carbon pathway being 30 times faster than the above ground biomass.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3_w_Gp1mLM

I followed her process when I wanted to build some soil in a spot that had all the top soil striped off for a subdivision. It was a failed tree planting due to the nutrient depleted soil.

I used a bunch of annuals and killed before they moved into their reproductive stage. Terminate when still in veg. stage and plant a bunch more plants from different plant groups.

When in veg state, the plant is pumping maximum amounts of carbon and sugars into the soil. When it moves to reproductive stage, it's focus is on bring up into the plant. Be careful with too many legumes in mix as it can be hard on soil structure/soil aggregates.

The deeper you can get your soil aggregation, the more productive your soil will be and the more desirable the crop you can grow for the critters. It allows the roots to get deeper into the soil profile for important minerals and nutrients. Its why you can plant a bunch of oak seedlings, but the deer will walk past them to eat every sucker off a cut stump. Those stump sprouts will be way more dense with minerals and nutrients because the roots are deep within the ground.


Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...it's about learning to dance in the rain!
Re: Building Soil [Re: WIMarshRAT] #8218564
09/18/24 05:33 PM
09/18/24 05:33 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 12,056
East-Central Wisconsin
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bblwi Offline
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East-Central Wisconsin
I don't know about the brassicas, but we have frost seeded legumes, especially clover with good success in our area for many years. Must be something about seed to soil contact and they don't germinate. Funny (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) most legume seeds don't rot easily and you would have thought the clover would have germinated in the spring with the freezing, thawing effect.

Bryce

Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #8218579
09/18/24 05:46 PM
09/18/24 05:46 PM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 896
NE NE
W
Wife Offline
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Wife  Offline
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W

Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 896
NE NE
All I can say is what works for us. I have an electric 1 bu.spreader that is made for 4-wheelers to plant food plots. Nix that. I fasten it to a bracket mounted on the FRONT of my 40/20 JD (5.5 ft high). Have a 7' shredder on the back and broadcast clover or any small/tiny food plot seed into last year's corn or millet or annual rye etc.. Shredder covers the seed immediately all in 1 trip. Volunteer corn can be left or hit with SELECT herbicide if you want. Leave for two growing seasons. Now you plant corn (feed grains) in your drill by plugging every other or 3rd tube to get the spacing you want between rows. Like I said, get a drill and however you want to broadcast the tiny seed just prior to shredding the stalks of corn or millet or cereal or annual rye etc. Works fine here because its a FOOD PLOT (not nesting cover) and should have a weed (herbaceous annual) or two. Use a herbicide if you want. Pack the ground after seeding if you want (your tractor tire packing will indicate if you need tt)..... here is a tip that "managers" miss when doing food plots........... In March (here) or very early April you should be doing a recon and recording HOW MUCH OF THE FOOD IN THE PLOT REMAINS. If more than 20-25% of the fall crop is available at that time, you are probably overplanting your plant population. Easy for corn or millet or radishes or turnips --- tougher for legumes to estimate but you will get better. You do need to do it every year to see how it is being utilized when not covered with a camera. Adjust your planting #'s and seed types from what is being used. If you have approx.10% leftover you are about right in providing a food source when needed. My experience..................... the mike

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