Anyone that knows me well knows I'm not a big fan of scopes and usually shoot open sights. But my dad gave me his 30-06 a couple months ago and it came with a nice old Redfield scope so I thought what the heck, my eyes aren't what they used to be so maybe try a scope.

I soon found out one of the scope screws was a replacement and wouldn't tighten down right. A nice member on here sent me a replacement screw at no cost and I set about sighting in the gun. It was shooting well over a foot high, but I finally got it fairly close and called it a day. The next time I went out, it seemed as if it was off further than what I'd left it at but I thought it was my imagination and began sighting it in again. This time I had it very close when I ran out of ammo and daylight. Like, within an inch of the bullseye. That was a week ago.

I go out today and... 3 inches high, 3 inches left. What the heck! So, I go about re-sighting it in. It seems to just not want to adjust right, but finally I give it a good ol crank and realize I am out of right adjustment which I find very odd. But I try a shot and it's dead on in the bullseye. The next two shots also in the bullseye. Well, I leave the gun in the lead sled and we run up to check the mail. When we get back, I still have 2 shells in the gun so decide to see if I can screw up my perfect record by missing the bullseye, lol.

3 inches left, 4 inches high...both shots.

WHAT is going on?? It must be the scope, right? Think it's just junk? My dad claimed it shot great! I don't get it!

The time I had that happen it was the mounts, they were slipping, I put new mounts on and it fixed it.

Start by checking the barrel to the forearm fit. Wood stocks warp after while. Cause weird things to happen as the barrel is touching the stock making it vibrate different every shot. Should be able to slide a dollar bill under the barrel all the way back to the action. Some fore ends were made with a little hump at the end. The barrel sits on it. If yours has that hump a dollar should slide to the action behind the hump.

Another possibility is loose screws that attach the action to the stock.


To check the scope put the gun in something solid. Look through the scope. Move your head a bit without moving the gun, The crosshair should not move.

Sounds like scope is loose to me.

At what range is first question . Hold the gun in your right hand and see if the scope wiggle up or down then left or right . I picked my 270 up to put it away for the season and felt movement. One of the bases had worked loosed I’ll have to remove the ring to get to it .

3 low left at what distance ? 25 or 50 yards it would be hard to belive the stock is pushing it a consistent 12 or 6moa off

if the scope isn't moving , the internals are happens on old scopes when you adjust them the springs that hold the retical don't hold the cross hair tracking to the turret screws.

if it just keeps changing and nothing else is moving then scope

an easy way to see if anything moves , on your rings to base , base to gun , ring to scope connections put a dab of nail polish it will come off with nail polish remover later if after it has hardened and you shoot cracks appear in the laquer things are moving under recoil.
clear works , I asked my wife a month ago if she had any she said nope not in years so there I was at the family dollar buying nail polish to mark a sight in my slug gun. clear is hardly noticeable so you can just leave it

I was shooting at 64 yards. I guesstimated 100 and was more than a little bit off when I measured it out last week, lol.

I like the nail polish idea.

But to narrow it down further, I'm pulling the scope off and sighting in the iron sights tomorrow. At least that way I can determine if the gun or scope is causing the issues.

Sure the crosshairs aren’t broke? Had that happen before and it was doing exactly what you’re describing.

I would start by checking all the mount screws. If they are good then the scope is bad.

How many rounds through that gun over the yrs ?

Chuck the lead sled, use a different scope, that you know for a fact hold zero. Double check all connection points .

Here's a tip I've learned. Site in , take you gun put in in the back seat and drive around a good bit..back roads are better. Take it back out and shoot the same target. If it's a different point of impact it's a wast of time and money ,chuck it and get a new one.

Could also just be some really crappy ammo. You got a good cheek weld ? Because if you don't on a scope it will cause that

Brother had one do similar.
Low mounts, eye relief slid rearward, objective bell clamped down slightly onto the top of the barrel near the thick chamber area.
Just enough to warp it the at the mid tube joint. Didn't take much ..... scrap.

Check the parallax in your scope also.

If your shooting the same brand ammo, it's gotta be the scope/ mounts.

Shoot the square. Group X clicks right, group X clicks down, group X clicks left, group X clicks up. Should return to zero after making a neat square. If not, the internals are shot.

But there are many other possibles. Stock movement whether that be expansion contraction due to humidity or poor bedding or improper torqued stock screws. Scope base or ring movement is also a possible.

sounds like stock contact to me. it can be adjusted and it groups. Then it cools down and the POI moves. Are you adjusting after the first shot ? If so try a group before adjusting. It would be unusual for a rifle to group then move after cool down with a scope issue. First real question is what kind of rifle is it bolt action semi auto pump single shot? Brand and model would be helpful . What kind of stock does it have ? Synthetic or wood? I'm not sating it isn't the scope but it kinda isn't acting like the scope. When you changed that screw did you loosen the others and then tighten all of them evenly?

Lots of questions, lol.

Usually I shoot a group before adjusting. Some adjustments were made after a single shot though after spending over a hundred bucks already trying to get this figured out, lol. So, it varies. The last one was the kicker though. Adjusted, shot a group of three all of which were within 1 1/4" inch, waited 10 minutes and then group of 2 (last two shells) were both 3" high and 3" left.

It is an older bolt action, probably 60s-70s manufacture if I had to guess but I wish I could tell you make and model. There's no freaking marks on it other than (I believe) 5 numbers. Nothing else. But that's a post for another day. Wood stock.

Yes, I tightened all bolts evenly when I put the scope back in the rings.

nothing but a SN# sounds like a sporterized Mauser they would grind the stamping off there was plenty of metal for it

a picture would be great

anything made in the 60s -70s for commercial manufacture should have a make and model
by 1968 they required a make model and Sn# be pressent on every gun manufacured of imported

however mauser actions were often cleaned of anything but a SN#

Don't think it's a Mauser. Will get pics tomorrow.

Just take a scope off one of your other guns and switch them out,sight in both and then you will know right away if its the scope or not.

You mentioned that you aren't a fan of scopes and usually shoot iron sights. Scopes are like iron sights in that you have to look thru it exactly the same way everytime. Make sure you have a full, clear sight picture. No fuzzy black ring around the edges. Also if you are having to adjust your head position to find the scope or get a full, clear picture it will cause the problems you describe. It is a common problem that I see when trying to teach someone to use a scope. The various dot, holographic,reflex type sights eliminate this problem. With them if you can see the dot or whatever you should hit where it is at. Traditional scopes aren't that way. You have to look straight thru them. If the sight picture seems to be floating around or it has fuzzy edges then adjust the scope position, not your natural head position. Sometimes trying to figure out why one won't hold zero will make you pull yout hair out.

Stupid question but you are getting proper scope alignment right ?

Also if you prefer iorns but don't like scopes look into LPVO's basically just lower powered, kinda like how people used to do with pistol scopes a while back. Once you position them right as soon as you shoulder you gun and open you eyes it's like you looking down a hall way with aiming points .Nicer then iorns but not as finicky or big as actual full size scopes. From you lat posts a while back a 1-4 or 1-6 would probably be great for you.
You can also get most of them with an illuminated option and all that is is your reticle is lit up which for snap shooting or low light it really good especially on lower settings

Chuck the lead sled? As in get rid of it?

Using a different scope definitely crossed my mind but it just makes more sense to check it using the iron sights than to take a good scope off another gun then have to resight that one in again too.

Ammo is factory Federal 150 grain.

No idea what a cheek weld is.

Explain what you're calling "scope alignment" wolfie. I don't like scopes, in general, remember? I don't know the terminology, lol.

The picture I posted . Top left showing a completely clear scope , no real black from edge to edge shows proper alignment, bottom right where you have like that black shadow real bad around the edges is improper. Really it's the same as iron sites. Seems when people come to me with scope problems 50% of the time it's improper scope alignment. My buddy absolutely hates scopes. Said he could never hit anything till I showed him what it's supposed to look like. Then moved the scope to where he had a nice clear image and now he loves them

If your confident with doing a check with iorns definitely go for it.
Personally I have a good scope I use as a floater. If I think I have a scope problems I'll take that one off but the floater on and try it again.

As far as cheek weld , I know you hate videos too but this one is only 2min and explains it pretty good in that time.


But basically it's having firm contact with you cheek to the stock. Not floating or adjusting your head around .


If your guns set up right , with the right rings and all yours would be able to get on the gun close your eyes could to ten one you eye and be looking though the scope and have almost a perfect view with little to no head movement

Another thing is just because something is perfect is good for someone doesn't mean it will be good for you. For example this is my girls dad's .270. guy was a gun nut and pretty serious so I know he had this set up perfectly for him self. Me however.
This is me with a comfortable stable cheek weld.


How ever due to it being set up for him and not me I have to float my head up (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) my neck a bit ect to see though the scope but it's not comfortable at all and trying to shoot it semi accurate just doesn't work.

Thanks for the clarification, wolfie. My cheek alignment I believe was fine as I've been doing it the same way for 30+ years now and never had this issue.

But the scope alignment.... shooting with a rest, it seemed fine to me, but in the lead sled it was definitely off, and from reading WSD trappers post and and now yours I'm wondering if that might be the difference.

UPDATE: I now know the make and model.

I took off the scope, and hidden under the scope... base? I guess it's called... the part that's screwed to the receiver.... was the make and model number. I took off the "base" too, and now know that it's a Remington model 1903!

And as far as the lead sled....... Big can of worms but all imma say is with talking to guys who live eat and breath precision rifles, yeah you even mention a lead sled to then they just say don't. Lotta stuff can be said about them breaking scopes and what not but when you look at these FClass PRS and bench rest guys rigs and you NEVER see a lead sled , that should say something. Front rest and rear bags yes but never lead sled deals.
Shoot talked with one guy who's bad groups at 200yd look like most people good 25yd groups and he point black said he'd rather use some old sand bags and a sand sock before a lead sled.
If it works for y'all that great but we'll....

According to Remington's site, I was off about as far on the age of the gun as I was my guess of 100 yards, lol.

It was made in September, 1942.

It looks just like this one...



Well, except for that back sight's been moved further up the barrel to allow for a scope.

But you've been shooting with iorns for most of that time right ? If so it's not quite the same. Iorns are lower and more in line with the stock so usually you never really need to do much ,just slap you face down on the stock and their just there. Personally lined up.
Honestly now that I think about it I don't think I've ever had to do any stock.mods when shooting with iorns ,just pick it up and go shoot. Well have to zero them and that's about it.

Scopes, well, you have. The sightings device raised up higher then you iorns you you just plain not going to have the same cheek weld like you would with iorns 9/10 times. Usually you need to add something to the stock to give yourself a rised part to set your cheek on and line you eye up better. That being called a cheek riser. And if you using a sporterized old war horse, your probably gonna need to do something because most of those guns stock where not made to be shot with scopes ,only iorns . That's why if you see old sniper conversions of a lot of these guns you'll see added cheek pieces or super low scopes
The Enfield's are a good example.
As you can see the regular ones ment to be shot with iorns are pretty straight stock but the snipe ron ment for a scop has a extra raise cheek piece to help give a better higher cheek weld


Honestly now that I think about it when Dad gave me his , now my , chopped m1917 sporter I honestly could shoot it to save my life because I just couldn't get a good cheek weld on it because it still has the original but modified stock on it . We're I needed to put my face for a good cheek weld and where I needed to be to actually get a good site picture where just two different things. Finally did something to raise it up and get a good check Weld and it was better and more accurate to shoot till I got a better stock set up

No a pretty easy but ugly solution is to raise the pace you put your check your eye is more line up with to stock by adding some material. Cheap and easy way is a little foam and some tape or vet wrap. Was a super common thing for solder and Marines to do to the older sniper / DMR rifles before all the super nice chassis systems. Some examples




And here a short little one minute video explaining how to make a easy cheek riser


[video:youtube]https://youtu.be/0zawFeasiik?[/video]

And here's one that explains how you want to have you scope set up. Again it's only 2min long. And you can skip to about 0:19 to skip the intro

Yep if the sock is about the same that's what id figure a bit. Great for iorns not to great for scopes . What scope do you have btw ? Age model make ? You very could just have a scope that's just plain gave up the ghost. If so there's a lot of good options now days for $150 or less , the whole spending as much or 2x on the optic as you do for the rifle is just plain not necessary anymore with most modern optics. Especially if your just setting the scop once and shooting. If your cracking dials constantly that's a little different. But heck to get the quality of games and components alot of these sub $200-150 scopes have now days you HAD to pay an arm and a leg back in the gap.
Today....egh got to look at some higher dollar glass front he 80's , well taken care of scope , Japanese tasco if I remember right guy said it cost as much as his gun when I got it..... The $120 sig 3-12 I just put in my dad's 45-70 had better glass then that and they get noting but good reviews so... Anyhow I'm ranting now lol

The scope is an old Redfield, no idea on age or model.

Thanks for your all your posts as you explained some topics (even without your videos I didn't watch lol) in a way I didn't understand them before.

Tomorrow is sight in the gun with iron sights and go from there day.

those are excellent rifles

Since its already drilled and tapped, not original. I am assuming you gave the old gun a real thorough cleaning? Sweets is great for copper removal. It IS hydroscopic. Bonds with water from humidity. It must be completely removed after you use it or it will cause rust.

Well I don't think I'll get to try sighting in the iron sights today after all. The rear sight is froze up. It's supposed to be able to move by hand but it wouldn't budge. After a bunch of tap tap tapping with a punch I got it to move finally but it's still so tight it'll only move by punch, not hand. Soaked it down good with some Hoppes oil and letting it soak. Sighting in rescheduled to Wednesday now.

Any updates?

Not yet... soon.

Kroil is your friend when it comes to loosening froze parts on guns.