Re: Kentucky Rat trappers, dept F&W looking for....
[Re: nimzy]
#8059038
01/24/24 01:44 PM
01/24/24 01:44 PM
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Joined: Feb 2022
Posts: 544 Arkansas
WhiteCliffs
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2022
Posts: 544
Arkansas
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None of my business but. I have a strong suspicion that your habitat has aged without enhancement. I would review a success story and mimic the process. Some places create muskrats basically at will, others couldn’t buy a rat. Right now Michigan has some stand outs. Wisconsin has the capability as well. Instead of focusing on what restricts rats I would focus on what produces them. JMO 45 years a muskrat trapper. I agree 100%. You see all the time the latest wild turkey study in a declining population trying to determine the cause of the decline. Almost always nest predation. I do not understand why they dont do a study where the population is strong to determine why that is.
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Re: Kentucky Rat trappers, dept F&W looking for....
[Re: KYBOY]
#8059050
01/24/24 01:55 PM
01/24/24 01:55 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,396 East, Kentucky
KYBOY
OP
trapper
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OP
trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,396
East, Kentucky
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Our habitat has aged poorly for rats. Especially in my part of Kentucky. Not so long ago every creek was sided by grass fields or corn fields. All of these creeks had plenty of rat's Every creek was grassy and clean.. Now most of the bottoms are gone or developed in some way.. Many of the creeks have been "restructured" by the highway dept, lined with rocks and so on... and now those creeks hold very few rats.. To me and what Ive seen, its easily as much habitat change/loss as anything, if not more.. I could not agree more about the habitat and I know several biologists that think the same thing... Sadly in Ky(and in general Im a fan of our F&W dept, they do a pretty good job overall) small game has taken a back seat to big game, Ky has a reputation as a deer state and with Elk and Bear being big deals as well they have focused far more effort there than they have small game and furbearers
Last edited by KYBOY; 01/24/24 01:58 PM.
Deep in the heart of Appalachia....
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Re: Kentucky Rat trappers, dept F&W looking for....
[Re: BigBlackBirds]
#8059188
01/24/24 04:59 PM
01/24/24 04:59 PM
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,317 Ontario, Canada
slydogx
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,317
Ontario, Canada
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If you want rats in quantity and more specifically quality ones then you need cattails as far as the eye can see. My guess is the biggest marsh threat in these parts likely has been purple swamp weed better known as loosestrife. Interesting, do you still have an issue with Purple Loosestrife in Michigan? It was all but wiped out here in the early 2000's by the introduction of a European beetle that feeds exclusively on the plant. I hand pulled and burned acres of that crap in '95/96 and it seemed hopeless that we would ever make meaningful progress against it... just a few years later, you couldn't buy a loosestrife plant in this county. I have begun to notice very small patches of one or two plants here and there in ditches, but no multi-acre stands like in the past. I would say that the main culprit degrading the habitat and outcompeting the native cattails for space if phragmites.
Just happy to be here.
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Re: Kentucky Rat trappers, dept F&W looking for....
[Re: KYBOY]
#8059205
01/24/24 05:20 PM
01/24/24 05:20 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,320 Manitoba
Northof50
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,320
Manitoba
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My trapping marsh was a first study and release site for those beetles on purple loosestrife. The beetles did quite well. So good that individuals were coming up and poaching beetles @ 5$ each to move around below the 49th. Unfortunately the conservative gov disbanded the whole entomological task force that go things going. The seeds do last 20+ years before they can sprout. Unfortunately the seeds can go through leeches gut system and be expelled into new water ways when they are moved
Last edited by Northof50; 01/24/24 05:20 PM.
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Re: Kentucky Rat trappers, dept F&W looking for....
[Re: slydogx]
#8059212
01/24/24 05:26 PM
01/24/24 05:26 PM
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 733 Michigan
BigBlackBirds
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 733
Michigan
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Interesting, do you still have an issue with Purple Loosestrife in Michigan? It was all but wiped out here in the early 2000's by the introduction of a European beetle that feeds exclusively on the plant. I hand pulled and burned acres of that crap in '95/96 and it seemed hopeless that we would ever make meaningful progress against it... just a few years later, you couldn't buy a loosestrife plant in this county. I have begun to notice very small patches of one or two plants here and there in ditches, but no multi-acre stands like in the past.
I would say that the main culprit degrading the habitat and outcompeting the native cattails for space if phragmites.
It got started here by folks spreading it on purpose without knowing it could have downsides. But I’d say that state wide eradication efforts began around the same time you reference. At that point you could look at a sea of purple in late summer in most marshy areas. Now there is only a fraction of it left compared to old days ——at least in my observation which hasn’t been so much from the negative environment side vs what some of us may have called it’s positive features. I see it mainly in pockets now on river flats etc. I suspect you are right that all those tall grasses are the newer competition impacting the cattails
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Re: Kentucky Rat trappers, dept F&W looking for....
[Re: kytrapper]
#8059216
01/24/24 05:33 PM
01/24/24 05:33 PM
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,082 WI
nimzy
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,082
WI
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I think by the time you live long enough to have seen what it was and what it is….there’s a tendency for young biologists to not listen to you. The only place I find any rats are in farm ponds or beaver flows anymore. Creeks that I used to walk and carry double handfuls by the tails are barren now. No spraying anywhere by any farming practices. Highway depts. do a lot of spraying anymore as do power line right of ways. I’ve bagged all the rats I’ve caught and sent in to them. Maybe they’ll find something. If they don’t find what they are looking for (they won’t results will be inconclusive) perhaps they’ll approach from a different angle. I commend you for participating.
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Re: Kentucky Rat trappers, dept F&W looking for....
[Re: kytrapper]
#8059223
01/24/24 05:45 PM
01/24/24 05:45 PM
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 733 Michigan
BigBlackBirds
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 733
Michigan
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I’ve often wondered how those streams in Michigan have so many. They don’t look like good rat habitat here but they pile them up. I’m no rat expert or biologist. Not even a marginally good rat trapper. A guess on my part——streams get the overflow from the cattail pockets holding the good rats. Just like the beaver they are long distance spring travelers on high water. Guessing they just end up in and make do with the streams on the good wet production years. I’m in highly tiled and ditched farm ground. Small ditches go to big ditches which go to streams then big rivers and eventually bigger rivers. Along the waterway there will be multiple smaller cattail areas in lakes etc but eventually the big rivers dump into great lakes and that’ll make a significant marsh. This was an extremely dry summer. The smaller ditches had few rats and they ended up in bigger waterways. Fall and winter has been wet. Now I see their tracks on snow coming into fields to get corn snd grass along thise small ditches. Intense farming, heavy spray no shortage of birds. But I imagine the big cattail marshes are the production center. Or I coujd be way off base
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Re: Kentucky Rat trappers, dept F&W looking for....
[Re: KYBOY]
#8059242
01/24/24 06:11 PM
01/24/24 06:11 PM
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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,627 Kentucky
ky_coyote_hunter
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,627
Kentucky
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I'm guessing W.Ky has the most rats in the state, but it's just a guess....Seems when the bald eagles came in numbers the rats & turkeys declined.
We always had the hawks & owls, or at least since beginning trapping in the early 70's
Member - FTA
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Re: Kentucky Rat trappers, dept F&W looking for....
[Re: slydogx]
#8059258
01/24/24 06:29 PM
01/24/24 06:29 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,320 Manitoba
Northof50
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,320
Manitoba
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If you want rats in quantity and more specifically quality ones then you need cattails as far as the eye can see. My guess is the biggest marsh threat in these parts likely has been purple swamp weed better known as loosestrife. I would say that the main culprit degrading the habitat and outcompeting the native cattails for space if phragmites. Best be warned if it is the European phragmites invading your marshes, you will have another problem on your hand
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