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Kentucky Rat trappers, dept F&W looking for.... #8059007
01/24/24 01:08 PM
01/24/24 01:08 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,395
East, Kentucky
KYBOY Offline OP
trapper
KYBOY  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,395
East, Kentucky
Carcasses and info so they can study reasons for the changes in our rat population.. what pathogens and toxicants that might be affecting them
https://fw.ky.gov/Hunt/Documents/Muskrat_Study_Informational_Flyer.pdf


Deep in the heart of Appalachia....
Re: Kentucky Rat trappers, dept F&W looking for.... [Re: KYBOY] #8059028
01/24/24 01:34 PM
01/24/24 01:34 PM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,069
WI
N
nimzy Offline
trapper
nimzy  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,069
WI
None of my business but. I have a strong suspicion that your habitat has aged without enhancement. I would review a success story and mimic the process. Some places create muskrats basically at will, others couldn’t buy a rat.
Right now Michigan has some stand outs. Wisconsin has the capability as well.
Instead of focusing on what restricts rats I would focus on what produces them. JMO 45 years a muskrat trapper.

Re: Kentucky Rat trappers, dept F&W looking for.... [Re: nimzy] #8059038
01/24/24 01:44 PM
01/24/24 01:44 PM
Joined: Feb 2022
Posts: 510
Arkansas
W
WhiteCliffs Offline
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WhiteCliffs  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2022
Posts: 510
Arkansas
Originally Posted by nimzy
None of my business but. I have a strong suspicion that your habitat has aged without enhancement. I would review a success story and mimic the process. Some places create muskrats basically at will, others couldn’t buy a rat.
Right now Michigan has some stand outs. Wisconsin has the capability as well.
Instead of focusing on what restricts rats I would focus on what produces them. JMO 45 years a muskrat trapper.



I agree 100%. You see all the time the latest wild turkey study in a declining population trying to determine the cause of the decline. Almost always nest predation. I do not understand why they dont do a study where the population is strong to determine why that is.

Re: Kentucky Rat trappers, dept F&W looking for.... [Re: KYBOY] #8059050
01/24/24 01:55 PM
01/24/24 01:55 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,395
East, Kentucky
KYBOY Offline OP
trapper
KYBOY  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,395
East, Kentucky
Our habitat has aged poorly for rats. Especially in my part of Kentucky. Not so long ago every creek was sided by grass fields or corn fields. All of these creeks had plenty of rat's Every creek was grassy and clean.. Now most of the bottoms are gone or developed in some way.. Many of the creeks have been "restructured" by the highway dept, lined with rocks and so on... and now those creeks hold very few rats.. To me and what Ive seen, its easily as much habitat change/loss as anything, if not more..
I could not agree more about the habitat and I know several biologists that think the same thing... Sadly in Ky(and in general Im a fan of our F&W dept, they do a pretty good job overall) small game has taken a back seat to big game, Ky has a reputation as a deer state and with Elk and Bear being big deals as well they have focused far more effort there than they have small game and furbearers

Last edited by KYBOY; 01/24/24 01:58 PM.

Deep in the heart of Appalachia....
Re: Kentucky Rat trappers, dept F&W looking for.... [Re: KYBOY] #8059082
01/24/24 02:38 PM
01/24/24 02:38 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13,233
Ky
J
jbyrd63 Offline
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13,233
Ky
Hawk on every post and owls hooting at night in every Hollar. Straight simple and correct cause of low rat numbers

Re: Kentucky Rat trappers, dept F&W looking for.... [Re: KYBOY] #8059173
01/24/24 04:38 PM
01/24/24 04:38 PM
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 721
Michigan
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BigBlackBirds Offline
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Joined: Oct 2016
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Michigan
If you want rats in quantity and more specifically quality ones then you need cattails as far as the eye can see. My guess is the biggest marsh threat in these parts likely has been purple swamp weed better known as loosestrife.

Id think Kentucky isn’t home to extensive rat marshes but ag land ditches? I’m not really sure how the creek & small river populations here compares to 40+ years ago but casual observation is they are similar. There’s way more danger from the air for sure but I’d say the arrival of otter has put greater pressure on them. You can drive around here and drop cages in streams and have a decent selection of them but they aren’t marsh rats.

Re: Kentucky Rat trappers, dept F&W looking for.... [Re: BigBlackBirds] #8059188
01/24/24 04:59 PM
01/24/24 04:59 PM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,308
Ontario, Canada
S
slydogx Offline
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Joined: Jun 2010
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Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted by BigBlackBirds
If you want rats in quantity and more specifically quality ones then you need cattails as far as the eye can see. My guess is the biggest marsh threat in these parts likely has been purple swamp weed better known as loosestrife.


Interesting, do you still have an issue with Purple Loosestrife in Michigan? It was all but wiped out here in the early 2000's by the introduction of a European beetle that feeds exclusively on the plant. I hand pulled and burned acres of that crap in '95/96 and it seemed hopeless that we would ever make meaningful progress against it... just a few years later, you couldn't buy a loosestrife plant in this county. I have begun to notice very small patches of one or two plants here and there in ditches, but no multi-acre stands like in the past.

I would say that the main culprit degrading the habitat and outcompeting the native cattails for space if phragmites.


Just happy to be here.
Re: Kentucky Rat trappers, dept F&W looking for.... [Re: KYBOY] #8059198
01/24/24 05:13 PM
01/24/24 05:13 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,842
KY.usa
rex123 Offline
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rex123  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,842
KY.usa
I have been beating this drum with fish and game for years. Hawks and owls to a small part a change in farming practices mostly. More along the lines of what KY BOY has stated.

Re: Kentucky Rat trappers, dept F&W looking for.... [Re: KYBOY] #8059205
01/24/24 05:20 PM
01/24/24 05:20 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,254
Manitoba
N
Northof50 Offline
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Northof50  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,254
Manitoba
My trapping marsh was a first study and release site for those beetles on purple loosestrife. The beetles did quite well. So good that individuals were coming up and poaching beetles @ 5$ each to move around below the 49th.
Unfortunately the conservative gov disbanded the whole entomological task force that go things going.
The seeds do last 20+ years before they can sprout. Unfortunately the seeds can go through leeches gut system and be expelled into new water ways when they are moved

Last edited by Northof50; 01/24/24 05:20 PM.
Re: Kentucky Rat trappers, dept F&W looking for.... [Re: KYBOY] #8059206
01/24/24 05:21 PM
01/24/24 05:21 PM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,069
WI
N
nimzy Offline
trapper
nimzy  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,069
WI
Doing autopsy on rats is gonna tell ya what you already know. Doing a few habitat enhancements may just teach you something. Marshes, forests, prairies all mature. Small subtle changes over time slowly suck out productivity.

Re: Kentucky Rat trappers, dept F&W looking for.... [Re: KYBOY] #8059208
01/24/24 05:25 PM
01/24/24 05:25 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,896
SE Kentucky
K
kytrapper Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,896
SE Kentucky
I think by the time you live long enough to have seen what it was and what it is….there’s a tendency for young biologists to not listen to you. The only place I find any rats are in farm ponds or beaver flows anymore. Creeks that I used to walk and carry double handfuls by the tails are barren now. No spraying anywhere by any farming practices. Highway depts. do a lot of spraying anymore as do power line right of ways. I’ve bagged all the rats I’ve caught and sent in to them. Maybe they’ll find something.

Re: Kentucky Rat trappers, dept F&W looking for.... [Re: KYBOY] #8059210
01/24/24 05:26 PM
01/24/24 05:26 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,896
SE Kentucky
K
kytrapper Offline
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kytrapper  Offline
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SE Kentucky
I’ve often wondered how those streams in Michigan have so many. They don’t look like good rat habitat here but they pile them up.

Re: Kentucky Rat trappers, dept F&W looking for.... [Re: slydogx] #8059212
01/24/24 05:26 PM
01/24/24 05:26 PM
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 721
Michigan
B
BigBlackBirds Offline
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 721
Michigan
Originally Posted by slydogx


Interesting, do you still have an issue with Purple Loosestrife in Michigan? It was all but wiped out here in the early 2000's by the introduction of a European beetle that feeds exclusively on the plant. I hand pulled and burned acres of that crap in '95/96 and it seemed hopeless that we would ever make meaningful progress against it... just a few years later, you couldn't buy a loosestrife plant in this county. I have begun to notice very small patches of one or two plants here and there in ditches, but no multi-acre stands like in the past.

I would say that the main culprit degrading the habitat and outcompeting the native cattails for space if phragmites.


It got started here by folks spreading it on purpose without knowing it could have downsides. But I’d say that state wide eradication efforts began around the same time you reference. At that point you could look at a sea of purple in late summer in most marshy areas. Now there is only a fraction of it left compared to old days ——at least in my observation which hasn’t been so much from the negative environment side vs what some of us may have called it’s positive features. I see it mainly in pockets now on river flats etc. I suspect you are right that all those tall grasses are the newer competition impacting the cattails

Re: Kentucky Rat trappers, dept F&W looking for.... [Re: kytrapper] #8059216
01/24/24 05:33 PM
01/24/24 05:33 PM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,069
WI
N
nimzy Offline
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nimzy  Offline
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N

Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,069
WI
Originally Posted by kytrapper
I think by the time you live long enough to have seen what it was and what it is….there’s a tendency for young biologists to not listen to you. The only place I find any rats are in farm ponds or beaver flows anymore. Creeks that I used to walk and carry double handfuls by the tails are barren now. No spraying anywhere by any farming practices. Highway depts. do a lot of spraying anymore as do power line right of ways. I’ve bagged all the rats I’ve caught and sent in to them. Maybe they’ll find something.


If they don’t find what they are looking for (they won’t results will be inconclusive) perhaps they’ll approach from a different angle.

I commend you for participating.

Re: Kentucky Rat trappers, dept F&W looking for.... [Re: kytrapper] #8059223
01/24/24 05:45 PM
01/24/24 05:45 PM
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 721
Michigan
B
BigBlackBirds Offline
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BigBlackBirds  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 721
Michigan
Originally Posted by kytrapper
I’ve often wondered how those streams in Michigan have so many. They don’t look like good rat habitat here but they pile them up.


I’m no rat expert or biologist. Not even a marginally good rat trapper. A guess on my part——streams get the overflow from the cattail pockets holding the good rats. Just like the beaver they are long distance spring travelers on high water. Guessing they just end up in and make do with the streams on the good wet production years. I’m in highly tiled and ditched farm ground. Small ditches go to big ditches which go to streams then big rivers and eventually bigger rivers. Along the waterway there will be multiple smaller cattail areas in lakes etc but eventually the big rivers dump into great lakes and that’ll make a significant marsh. This was an extremely dry summer. The smaller ditches had few rats and they ended up in bigger waterways. Fall and winter has been wet. Now I see their tracks on snow coming into fields to get corn snd grass along thise small ditches. Intense farming, heavy spray no shortage of birds. But I imagine the big cattail marshes are the production center. Or I coujd be way off base

Re: Kentucky Rat trappers, dept F&W looking for.... [Re: KYBOY] #8059242
01/24/24 06:11 PM
01/24/24 06:11 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,590
Kentucky
ky_coyote_hunter Offline
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ky_coyote_hunter  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,590
Kentucky
I'm guessing W.Ky has the most rats in the state, but it's just a guess....Seems when the bald eagles came in numbers the rats & turkeys declined.

We always had the hawks & owls, or at least since beginning trapping in the early 70's


Member - FTA
Re: Kentucky Rat trappers, dept F&W looking for.... [Re: slydogx] #8059258
01/24/24 06:29 PM
01/24/24 06:29 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,254
Manitoba
N
Northof50 Offline
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Northof50  Offline
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N

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,254
Manitoba
Originally Posted by slydogx
Originally Posted by BigBlackBirds
If you want rats in quantity and more specifically quality ones then you need cattails as far as the eye can see. My guess is the biggest marsh threat in these parts likely has been purple swamp weed better known as loosestrife.




I would say that the main culprit degrading the habitat and outcompeting the native cattails for space if phragmites.


Best be warned if it is the European phragmites invading your marshes, you will have another problem on your hand

Re: Kentucky Rat trappers, dept F&W looking for.... [Re: KYBOY] #8059265
01/24/24 06:36 PM
01/24/24 06:36 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,896
SE Kentucky
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kytrapper Offline
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SE Kentucky
Western Kentucky is loaded with it. That stuff is impenetrable. I trapped a little over there and it makes my kudzu look like morning glories.

Re: Kentucky Rat trappers, dept F&W looking for.... [Re: KYBOY] #8059268
01/24/24 06:38 PM
01/24/24 06:38 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,896
SE Kentucky
K
kytrapper Offline
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SE Kentucky
As a heads up, they may be asking for grey fox carcasses next year. If they’re in my trap and I can, I’ll watch them run off. There’s fewer grey fox than anything here.

Re: Kentucky Rat trappers, dept F&W looking for.... [Re: KYBOY] #8059286
01/24/24 06:51 PM
01/24/24 06:51 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,842
KY.usa
rex123 Offline
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rex123  Offline
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KY.usa
A creek running through several hay fields , grass and trees right up to water .State buys right of way for road expansion covers creek banks with large rocks, Still a few rats here and there ,farm land gets leased and new people rotate corn one year soy beans next . Spray for one reason or another a few years later not one rat or sign of one anywhere. I am an old man this area always had rats. When I was a kid saw an old man trapping there and he had been taking rats for years. Watching him is what got me started.

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